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Battery range and charging speed for 2014 Model S 60

Battery range and charging speed for 2014 Model S 60

Hi,
I have had the above car for 2 years now and
1. my range is ~180 - so a 14% degradation from the initial 207.
Is this normal? Tesla seems to indicate that though the system says is is 180 - it has "more" capacity - not sure what that means. Anyone else has a related experience to share?

2. Next, more recently the charging rate I get at a supercharger is around 115-125 mi/hr with a cap of 120A current. I used to get rates like 275 mi/hr just a few months back @240+A. Tesla is looking into the diagnostics but hasn't found anything wrong. They tried to tell me it was normal(!!) but I didn't buy it - how can such a degradation be normal? And at such rates, I can't make long distance trips - which is a key use-case for a car..:-) Overall, they seem extremely cagey and defensive about anything battery related.

Again, would like to hear similar experiences or suggestions? Tesla service is still debugging #2 - but wanted to post this to get feedback.

thanks,
B

TeslaTap.com | 15. tammikuu 2016

Depends how you measured your 'range'. Did you discharge to 10% or less and charge to 100%? Did you check within 1 hour after charging to 100%? How many miles on your car. A two year car with 100K miles will be different than one with 10K miles. Was the car's temperature somewhat close to 70 degrees F?

For my MS60 - Went from 208 when new to 200 after 3 years, 30K miles, and it might be better. I waited 4-5 hours after it reached 100% (i.e. overnight) before checking the range.

Rather than mi/hr, it's easier to understand power (volts * amps). The Superchargers can provide 120 kW to 85/90, but only 105 kW to 60/70 models. This is due to the pack voltage being lower in the 60/70. That said, I've routinely gotten 105 kW, but sometimes less. Not all that consistent. This assumes no one is charging on the connected stall (two stalls share a single 120 kW module). If you are sharing a supercharger with another car, you will get less power, and perhaps as little as 30 kW if you're the second car to arrive.

jordanrichard | 15. tammikuu 2016

How many miles does your car have? As TT pointed out, total miles driven plays a role.

Though I have not charged to 100% is a very long time, presently 80% gets me 206. That works out to a loss of 6 miles. My car is a S85, Mar '14 build, 39,000 miles, and of late the temperature in my garage has been in the low-mid 40's.

SUN 2 DRV | 15. tammikuu 2016

An obvious but key issue is the SoC when you start the supercharge.

Last week I was initially surprised at the lower than expected charge rate but then I remembered that I was just topping off for a long trip (113 mph) vs my normal SC stops where I'm close to empty (>300 mph).

trixiew | 15. tammikuu 2016

My S60 is just over a year old, 24K miles. I don't have any idea about the charging speed at a super charger but my rated range for 90% charge dropped from 186 to 181.

RedShift | 15. tammikuu 2016

Folks,

There are many threads on this.

If you have a habit of not charging to full often, and I think that includes most of us, then the battery SOC is 'off' due to software limitations.

The software apparently needs data points to do some learning.

So, solution is to charge to 100%?for every day for about a week or more, then check. I did, recently. My 60 has 36k miles and almost 2 years old. It showed 188 miles full charge the first day. 2 days later, 189. 2 more days, 195. 3 days later, 203.

So, 203 vs 208 when new.mnot bad at all, from my perspective.

NOTE however, charging to 100% all the time is not advisable for battery life. I'm sure you all know this.

rschwartzstein | 17. tammikuu 2016

I have a p85+. Initial 100% charge was 273 miles at delivery Oct 30 2014. The car now has 50000 mi. Today my max charge is 219!! I'm fairly disappointed (and frankly worried) that in a month or 2 this car is not going to be usable for me unless the battery is replaced. I routinely have 150-200+ mile days (sometimes overnight away from a charger) without sufficient notice and I require that the battery be close to full charge almost everyday. Will I be S-O-L given the evasive answers that we are getting about battery warranty issues? Although this full charge practice is not good for battery life I don't see where it voids the warranty. Thoughts?

bharath.2004 | 18. tammikuu 2016

Thanks all,
My 2014 Modes S 60 has 31 K miles.

Nowadays Even when I start with low mileage (~40 miles of charge) - I am seeing 320 V @ 125 amps = ~40KW which is way below the max possible 105KW. and this translates to slow charging during trips. Hence my concern.

@RedShift - I was told the same about the software limitation due to not charging to full capacity (but I was asked not to charge to full capacity to extend battery life...damned if you do damned if you dont!!). I will try your test

@rshwartztein - I am also concerned about how cagey and evasive tesla is as soon as the complaints are battery related

Let me know if the numbers I am seeing are indicative of a problem

bharath.2004 | 18. tammikuu 2016

Also - my charging rate numbers are more or less the same whether there are others in the supercharger or I am alone

Bighorn | 18. tammikuu 2016

@schwartzstein
You have a busted battery and the service center should be able to diagnose that. Mileage at delivery should have been 265. You shouldn't be less than 250 now.

JAD | 18. tammikuu 2016

@Bighorn, it is a 60. Mileage at delivery should not have been 265. 208 as I recall, so around 190 now depending on conditions etc. 180 is a bit low, but not enough to indicate a battery cell issue in my opinion. Probably just needs a good long drive to calibrate and maybe warmer weather.

Bighorn | 18. tammikuu 2016

@JAD
I was referencing rschwartzstein's P85+ note above.

JAD | 18. tammikuu 2016

Sorry, my mistake. Surprised you would make a mistake like that... Didn't want the OP to think his battery had cell issues when it ONLY the other car with clear issue.

TeslaTap.com | 18. tammikuu 2016

@bharath.2004 - That charging rate - 40 KW with about 40 miles of range left at a SC does not sound right, especially if no other cars are present. How long does it take to charge up? For me, going from 30 miles to 180 miles typically takes about 45 minutes. Note that the power slows down as it nears full to protect the battery. To go to 100% SOC might take more than an hour. If it is taking you hours at an empty Supercharger, something is clearly wrong.

I'm not sure if the car would be at fault or the Supercharger. Note that the numbers on the left of the main display miles of range per hour are an average over the charging time and are not the instantaneous numbers.

Tesla isn't cagey or evasive - it's just that I hear time and again how someone thinks the range has lost a lot of range, only to find out they didn't really measure it properly. Anything less than 100% SOC is not all that valid. It's an estimate of the SOC and Tesla smartly errors on the side of less range so you don't get stuck somewhere.

Think of it like a gas tank - the gauge can be very accurate at 0 and 100%, but not so much in between (usually +/- 10% is considered great). Tesla's range indicator is more accurate than this, but maybe +0/-5% at some portions of the range. So if it states 100 miles of range it really might be 105 to 100 miles. Of course your driving style, temperature, hills and wind will affect your actual range.

In many years at reading forum posts here, I can only remember a single instance of significant battery degradation where one of the 16 modules failed in an S85 pack, dropping the range 6% immediately when it occurred. Tesla repaired the owner's battery.

bharath.2004 | 18. tammikuu 2016

@TeslaTap -
1. It takes ~40 mins or so to go from 40 to 100 mi - so obviously an issue
2. It is not the charger - the tesla technicians were with me at the supercharger and checked that the other cars were all getting good charging params. We even changed stalls to validate.

3. The tesla team took stats from the above experiment and two days later I called to check only to hear that they are seeing no issue with the logs and hence everything is normal! How is that acceptable when there is an obvious customer experience issue? That is the reason I say they are cagey/evasive when it comes to battery issues.
End of the day - my car is not working as advertised (even under their scrutiny)

TeslaTap.com | 18. tammikuu 2016

From what it looks like, it does seem like something is wrong. I'd pursue it further - maybe asking to talk to the service manager. They should be able to explain why it is normal (which from the facts does not seem normal). Good luck!

One thought that I've not experienced - was the battery in very hot or cold temperatures? It might slow the Supercharge in some extreme conditions. I'm not sure I've ever Supercharged when the outside temperature was outside 45-100 F. Other owners may be able to comment on Supercharging speed in extreme temperatures.

jasonbedell | 18. tammikuu 2016

Talking to the service department about battery degradation is a lost cause. They are trained in how to spin you around when you bring up range loss. My 90d with 6k miles has 6 percent range degradation. They have tried to balance the packs and I have done it as well but my car has lost 6 percent anyway you look at it. I paid 3k for the extra range and I have nothing to show for it. I am glad my car is a lease and they will have to deal with it in a couple of years. I loved tesla until the service department starting making up bs like your rated range changes with driving habits. And I am the only one to complained about range loss that they know.. And it will be fixed in the next software update...

rxlawdude | 18. tammikuu 2016

@jasonbedell - Your experience is why the modified anode chemistry (added silicon) scares the S^&*^ out of me as a TSLA stockholder. I just hope that Tesla doesn't keep the "it's only the software reporting wrong" song and dance.
If it turns out the modified chemistry is causing premature range loss, this will be a PR nightmare. I'm (and I'm sure MS90 owners are) hoping this is truly just a software anomaly.

jordanrichard | 18. tammikuu 2016

jasonbedell, do you know for an absolute fact that the people at ALL services centers went to a range loss spin class? Though the 90's are a relative new battery, this is the first I have read about range loss with them. Also, what are you basing it on? Many people come on here and state the same thing about range loss and come to find out they were calculating things wrong or there were some extenuating circumstances.

I am not saying that the loss you are saying you experienced is completely covered by this, but it is common for the battery pack to "settle in" at the beginning, and there appears to be a reduction of the rated miles at a given SOC.

jasonbedell | 18. tammikuu 2016

jordanrichard do you work for tesla? I think tesla has damage control people trolling these fourms..I am caluculating it based on my rated range not in range mode and not set to ideal. my 100 percent after I and tesla balanced the batteries by draining and doing a full charge 3 times is 6% less then when the car was new 6,000 miles ago. My car is stored in a heated garage with my classic car collection so temperature is not a factor. tesla spin doctors try to tell me rated range changes with driving habits witch we know is BS.

nbrianjohnston | 18. tammikuu 2016

My 2014 S60 has 45,000 KM on it and I get 278KM (172M) at 90% charge and about 305KM (189M) when fully charged. Have not done that much supercharging, but it has always been fast enough.

Khalid | 27. marraskuu 2017

@bharath.2004 do you have any update on this? I have a classic 60 with the exact same issue with range. Mine has 61k miles and i had it for close to 4 years.

tes-s | 27. marraskuu 2017

Perhaps @SamO will check in here. He has a 60, a lot of miles, and a lot of experience supercharging over many years. He knows what is normal, and would also know if anything has changed with supercharging speed.

RedShift | 27. marraskuu 2017

My 2013 60 kWh has 57k miles and charges to 199 full rated miles.

Khalid | 27. marraskuu 2017

@RedShift I'm not even close.
How often do you deplete your battery before you recharge?

RedShift | 27. marraskuu 2017

Not often. Maybe 10 times a year.

You will not get your 'true' range unless you start charging to full after draining to 20% or so for a couple of days. It's also known as battery rebalancing. Note that doing the above affects your battery health a bit.

SamO | 27. marraskuu 2017

Original S60
208 miles
193 current 100% charge
89k miles
~400 Supercharger visits

ssarker | 30. marraskuu 2017

Classic S60.
207 miles at 100% in 2013.
194+ miles at 100% since 2014.
189 miles at 97% last week with 83k miles.
Battery is mostly 50-90%. Rare for me to go <30%.

mnowak | 30. joulukuu 2017

I know this is an old thread. I bought a used 2014 model s 60 a few months ago and have been extremely disappointed with degradation and supercharging speed.

After digging into the MaxRange degradation survey, I noticed a disturbing pattern.

Out of a sample set of 19 reported Model S 60's in the USA, 8 are at or below 90% range and 5 are at 85%. Out of those 8 one is a high mileage 2013, and all of the rest are low mileage 2014's.

Including my own, I'm seeing an anomaly that a 2014 Model S 60 is 100% guaranteed to be a shit battery, while all other cars even being older and much higher mileage are far FAR more likely to be above 90% still.

ALI3N | 30. joulukuu 2017

Just picked up a 2014 MS60. This is NOT what I want to hear. Going to run some tests. Maybe I got lucky with my battery?!?!

mnowak | 30. joulukuu 2017
SO | 30. joulukuu 2017

Have you charged to 100% and then ran it way down and recharged again? This can sometimes help recalibrate the estimate range.

SilverSp33d3r | 09. tammikuu 2018

2014 CPO MS 60 with 61K miles, my 100% charge is 201 RM. Not sure what it was new but it has 60KWH pack “C”. I have no issues supercharging and with10% SOC I was attaining 101KW. Try running down and charging back up to
See if you “regain” miles, I did that recently and it showed 203 RM.

jordanrichard | 09. tammikuu 2018

Holy crap can we panic anymore dramatically.

The original 60 pack had a range of 208. That is your base line.

Mnowak you say you are disappointment with the degradation but don’t say what numbers you are getting with your car.

Before looking for advice/input from us, it would help if you provided a bit more information other than you don’t like what you are seeing. Also if you are in a cold weather state, the rated miles you see at any given SOC % is going to be lower by a mile or two, than it is in the warmer months.

danlin2000 | 27. lokakuu 2019

95k miles on 2013 S60, full charge only showing 167 mi. or about 20% degradation. When new was 208 mi range. What's interesting also is that in the first few years, I was only averaging about 300 Wh/mi but over time, the Wh/mi seems to be getting worse. Now only getting about 330 Wh/mi. I use the car for commute 90% of the time so its the same route for the 6 years I own it. Never used Supercharger and charge to 90% nightly. Charge to 100% maybe on average 5 times a year for longer trips on weekend.

About 9 months ago, car warn of low battery and shutdown which ended in tow with 23mi remaining. Service Center replaced 12v battery. SC first said that it might be SW update needed which didn't do anything. Followed by to deplete and recharge full to rebalance, didn't make any difference. Lastly said its within acceptable degradation. Since then, I don't drive below 30mi without recharging.

Two weeks ago driving on freeway and car suddenly warn of low battery and shutdown with still 50 miles to go. Had to get tow again. Made appointment with Service Center immediately but earliest appointment was a couple week out. I have been limiting the driving until I get it looked at. Hopefully they can find issue and repair. This time is really messed up, I started the day with full charge knowing I was driving a bit further. I only used 24KW over 74 mi. before shutdown occurred.

Has anything similar happen to anyone else? I know not many people have original S60.

RedShift | 27. lokakuu 2019

2013 March Model S 60 kWh. Original 208, 2 days ago, 195. I saw 200 in June of this year. Very happy that the battery degradation is so low.

RedShift | 27. lokakuu 2019

@danlin

I did some experiments a few months ago when I thought my car’s consumption was getting high. (Around 320 wh/mi as opposed to 260-275 usual) I first thought the brake was binding, per suggestion on this forum. That wasn’t it. Turned out that the 60 has an initial bump up in energy usage when starting from stop and car is off. It takes roughly 15 miles of driving for the energy usage to stabilize and show 260-280 depending on your driving habits, of course. If you drive hard, it won’t stabilize to that, but may be 300-330.

My 3 does not exhibit this bump and long tail to stabilize. It behaves much more stable, with energy usage initially showing 300-400 but coming down almost within 3-5 minutes to 220 or so. I have an LR RWD Model 3.

I don’t know why the 60 shows the usage differently, but it could be the algorithm is a different one than that used on the 3.

Try driving at steady speeds (70 mph let’s say) for about 15-20 minutes. The usage should stabilize.

RedShift | 27. lokakuu 2019

@danlin

Finally, regarding the low battery shutdown with 50 miles remaining - seems like a fault. You should take it up with Tesla for sure.

danlin2000 | 27. lokakuu 2019

Thanks @redshift.

Mine was December 2013. I also do notice the bump in the beginning. But the number I am citing is the average over the trip. I drive about 70 mile roundtrip to work and its been the same route for the life of the car and I drive normally....no lead foot. I definitely think there is some issue w/ the car. I just hope I get a good tech who can find the issue. 9 months ago they couldn't find anything even though the service rep says my range do appear low but the tech ultimately came back w/ "this is within acceptable degradation" and replace the 12v.

Between 20% battery degradation, 10% Wh/mi efficiency degradation, and 10% to not charge battery to 100%, and car shutting down at 50mi. I basically have only 75mi range on the daily charge....my appointment is on Tuesday, we'll see what SC finds.

Renzo | 29. lokakuu 2019

@danlin please keep this threat alive with your updates! battery is under warranty until 2021 so if this keeps up maybe in 2021 we may have a good case for battery replacement under warranty.

I have 2013 S 60 with 79k miles. Bought used from Tesla 10 months ago (12/19) with 65k miles.
90% gives me 164 miles
100% gives me 184 miles

I have been charging to 80% but after reading another post on a battery research paper that was published I am going to charge up to 60%

patomacko | 04. marraskuu 2019

Hi, I'm new here. I have a Model S 60 2013,
90% I have 259km (162mi)
100% I have 289km (181mi)
Range has decreased after the latest updates, I think when buying a car was better range. In another discussion, I read that it is sometimes good to charge the battery for 100% due to battery balancing. Do you have any experience with this? One guy wrote that his range was adjusted and the car shows a little more.
Next, I would like to ask what speed you have on SC.
I have :
36% ... 51kW
43% ... 45kW
47% ... 40kW
50% ... 39kW
55% ... 36kW
60% ... 34kW
65% ... 32kW
70% ... 30kW
75% ... 27kW
80% ... 22kW
85% ... 13kW
90% ... 5kW
It's a recent measurement, the temperature was about 68 ° F. Before charging, I passed 100km (63mi).
I will be glad if someone comment.

Bighorn | 04. marraskuu 2019

I think I remember that 60s had a max sum of SOC and kW of around 100. Seems close to what you saw.

danlin2000 | 09. marraskuu 2019

Just got my car back after it being in Burbank center for two weeks. I am happy to report that they diagnose the hv needs replaced. Got a new battery and my max range is back up to 195mi. All covered under warranty. They also replaced the 12v for good measure. Service center in Burbank was much improved. I got a loaner while it was being service. So I am a happy camper. I think it might just be luck of the draw. My service rep this time was great, responsive and proactively kept me update. Vs last time it was a black box with very slow response or no response.

Bighorn | 09. marraskuu 2019

@danlin
I believe I told you, must have been a different thread, that your battery was problematic and would likely need replacing, like mine was under similar circumstances. Not really luck of the draw if there's an issue.

rmena | 12. marraskuu 2019

My 2014 Model S 60 with 63,000 miles is charging to 144 miles at 90% and 157 miles at 100%.
This can not be normal.

tessellate | 13. marraskuu 2019

Does anyone know what range loss is considered 'acceptable' by Tesla?

My 2014 S60 has only 31K miles and charges to 184 miles at 100% i.e. about 10% range loss (from 204 new). Tesla says this is normal; but for us classic S60 owners, every mile of loss counts!

Mathew98 | 13. marraskuu 2019

3-5% annual loss is deemed acceptable per multiple service technicians. You are actually doing better than some...

It also seems you don't drive many long distance trips to recalibrate the range calculation. Drain to 10% range and charge to 99% 3 to 5 times consecutively and you should "gain" back a few more miles.

wmmcc | 13. marraskuu 2019

I have a 2013 MS60, original owner. VIN is #25892. The car has 55k miles on it now.

I get 202 rated miles on a full charge, 180 on the 90%. This is down from 208 and 184 when new.

I am fairly low mileage for a six year old vehicle. Have fully charged the battery less than ten times in its 6 years of life. The car is garaged here in Atlanta, charged to 90% every evening.

I am quite pleased with the car, and its HV battery. Better HV battery longevity than I expected.

Interestingly, I am on my third 12v battery.

If I could have any wish for the car, it would be the ability to purchase a much longer range battery for it. When I travel to the Georgia coast it takes two charging stops and adds ~80 minutes to the length of the trip, so I have grown accustomed to taking the wife's Lexus LS460 to save time, although I miss the Tesla when I get there.

I have contemplated trading up to a new Model S for the range, but I use my large frunk frequently, and the new ones scarcely have one. It would be an expensive battery purchase with little else to argue for the newer model. I would not use the auto drive capability.

And so I keep driving my 2013 MS60 which looks new, and I still have a smile on my face!