How is NoA working for you?

How is NoA working for you?

After 1,100 miles of daily commute:

As is..I won’t be able to use NoA on automatic lane change mode unless it makes HUGE strides. Several segments of my commute NoA demands to leave the HOV lanes to slower lanes to just re-enter after several miles. No rhyme or reason but the same occurrence every time. I have reported it but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ who knows when that’ll be fixed.

One of my expressway transitions leaves the HOV lane and crosses 4 lanes of heavy traffic within 3/4 of a mile. NoA is NOT capable of this 4 lane transition at this point and creates a serious traffic hazard.

Unless some major improvements are made I’ll have to leave “automatic lane change” off once it is available. So sad

pnajar | 11. marraskuu 2018

What happens if you ignore the suggestion to leave the HOV lanes? If you continue and ignore the demand(?) does it turn off? Re-calculates?

Regarding the transition. As a driver should you not be ready to take over for a complex transition? Four lanes in 3/4 of a mile you know is difficult for anyone driving during commute time, much less than a piece of beta of software. By driving intelligently and taking control you’re hopefully providing direction for the Neural Net to learn how deal with this transition. I’m sure you’re not the only one of Tesla’s commuters having to handle this transition. The more that drive it the better.

Remember this version of Autopilot is much better than the last but its still evolving and Beta. Are we suposed to feel sorry for you? Or... | 11. marraskuu 2018

Works fine for me - tried it out on a 30 mile trip earlier today. It never demanded anything for me, although it did make some lane change suggestions. Some I took, some I didn't. Not a big deal. I also have HOA set on, and it nicely suggested to move into the HOA lane when it became available.

Still haven't used it extensively yet, not anything near 1,100 miles daily.

rednairb | 11. marraskuu 2018

Demand? That's interesting. I haven't seen that yet. For me, it asks to confirm lane change by pushing the blinker lever. And if I don't want to do it, it goes away after a while. How does the demand work?

Yodrak. | 11. marraskuu 2018

"After 1,100 miles of daily commute:"
"not anything near 1,100 miles daily."

Interesting. :-)

Boonedocks | 11. marraskuu 2018

Yes it demands by giving visible and audible requests to move over one lane out of the HOV lane into the adjacent lane and then back in to the HOV lane several miles later. During every commute. Demand may be harsh word choice but it will continue to “suggest” and “sound an audible alert” if you do not change lanes. Pick your own word for it.

1,100 miles of daily commuting. Not 1,100 miles daily. Really?!? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

BPSoCal | 11. marraskuu 2018

Wouldn’t know. Don’t have that update yet. I kinda have version envy right now. Is that a thing? I want to try this NoA stuff.

inconel | 11. marraskuu 2018

It seems to have a split personality to me. Starting about 5 miles before an exit on the right, it suggests to go to the left lane for faster traffic, but as soon as it gets to the left lane and even before overtaking the slower car it forgets the reason it is on the left lane and wants to go back to the right lane to follow the intended route. And it does that all the time :)

BPSoCal | 11. marraskuu 2018

@inconel - that sounds more like ADD. ;)

Yodrak. | 12. marraskuu 2018

Frequent lane changing, weaving in and out of traffic, is a great way to cause accidents. I expect that Tesla's NoA would be more conservative and safer than the typical lane changer who's in a rush to save a few seconds at a time, but in heavier traffic where lane changing to maintain a desired speed is even more risky I just don't think it's worth it.

I do like the idea that it will take you off the exit, or take you the correct way when a highway splits like a Y.

Roman.g.wilson | 12. marraskuu 2018

Agreed - I've encountered many situations as you mentioned (changing lane for speed despite only to have to immediately undo that lane change)

Long way to go, but it's a good first step I'd say.

redacted | 12. marraskuu 2018

I've had NoA problems with it.

Bumper | 12. marraskuu 2018

This is a 1.0 software features and I am glad it does not auto-change lanes without confirming with the driver. The intent is to get a few million miles on this and improve it as we go. I like the approach and look forward to the incremental improvements. . As for how I like it in 42.3, we are mixed in my household. I tend to make more frequent lane changes for traffic, and don't head over to the right lane for an exit until 1/2 mile out or so. I tend to ignore some of the lane change suggestions on routes I know, especially the ones telling me to go to the slow lane 2 miles out. My wife tends to get into a comfy spot behind a car (not a truck where she can't see), and enjoy the ride. She accepts the offer to move to the exit lane as prompted. Bottom line is the software doesn't account for driver style and likely we will all have to adjust to accommodate a little bit. This feels a lot like when we first started using AP. I manually tend to drive toward the right side of the lane, and she tends to manually drive closer to the left side. It took us both some to get comfortable with a car that only wanted to drive in the middle.

As a side note, I looked on at 8 instances of us driving the same route using NoA. There isn't more than a 2 minute spread across all the trips and I suspect that has more to do with an extra red light.

So bottom line is I'll take some lane suggestions, she would have ignored. Both of us will happy and annoyed a times, but it will make nearly zero difference in the time to go from A to B.

BaxterSF | 12. marraskuu 2018

I've used NoA a bunch of times. It has one strange issue, twice when approaching this certain off ramp on this specific route it will turn on the left (for 2 clicks), then the right turn signal (for a few clicks) all by itself. Not sure if the external lights are blinking or this is just a dash display issue, but the car did take the offramp by itself after it did the blinkers.

Ohmster | 12. marraskuu 2018

I'm still waiting for my frig'in cameras to calibrate or get SW42.3 93% now. Blimey....

'17 S75 & X75D: (Uncorked AP2.5 Bio 42.2)*2. Grin on!

Boonedocks | 13. marraskuu 2018

@ohmster I think you are going to need a SC visit. Consensus on the other board is that most with the continuing fluctuations in the % of camera calibration will not go away and resolve itself on its own.

Earl and Nagin ... | 13. marraskuu 2018

Watching autopilot improvements is like watching a baby grow up. Over the next few years, we'll be able to watch it crawl, get its first steps, first words, move on to sentences, walk, etc.
Should be fun and no diapers to change :-)

Haggy | 14. marraskuu 2018

It works for me in general. There are two important things to keep in mind though. The prompts are often suggestions. You don't have to follow them, unless it's necessary for upcoming exits of freeway changes. For those it tells you. You are also free to change lanes on your own when it makes sense, even if it doesn't suggest it.

I mention these because some reviewers seem to have missed that. If you are getting close to an exit, it suggests a lane change to pass somebody, and you think it doesn't make sense, then don't do it. If it leaves you in the left lane and you think you should move to the right, there's no reason to act as if you can't change lanes unless the car asks you to.

The only real "problems" I have aren't related to NoA per se, but with the latest use of all cameras. I found that it makes the car too timid.

If I want to change lanes, have plenty of room, and put on the signal, it might wait long enough for a car in the next lane to start moving up to pass me. It might have been fine to change lanes right away though. Also there are times when the person in the next lane will move up, but hang back just enough to let you in. When that happens, it's clear to a human driver that the other driver expects the lane change, but the Tesla thinks that the other car is too close to the blind spot.

The other issue I have is with cars entering the lane I'm moving into after the lane change starts. If the lane change is halfway done, and a car two lanes over but behind me makes a sudden lane change into the lane I'm entering, the Tesla will abort the lane change and wait until the other car passes.

For practical purposes, it might mean that it would make more sense to change lanes manually, which turns off autosteer. Using NoA just for the sake of using it will work, but it might slow down the trip and allow other vehicles to bully the Tesla, especially if they know that NoA is being used.

Boonedocks | 14. marraskuu 2018

+1 Haggy at some reviewers leaving major components out. The remarks you made about ignoring lane changes is correct BUT when NoA automatic lane change is released the examples you cited will be an entirely different situation. That’s what I was referring to in the OP

BPSoCal | 15. marraskuu 2018

Finally got it. Works okay with some caveats. It breaks aggressively at some off-ramps, I had to step on the accelerator to not cause an issue, but the guy behind me got a good break check by accident.

I agree that it’s kind of timid for lane changes in traffic situations, and it can cause some confusion on the roads.

Overall, I’ve used it a few times but disengage it before getting to the off ramp to avoid the crazy braking.

Good beta release, needs some work.

Haggy | 16. marraskuu 2018

"The remarks you made about ignoring lane changes is correct BUT when NoA automatic lane change is released the examples you cited will be an entirely different situation. That’s what I was referring to in the OP"

That depends. If they mimic what they do now, but automate the lane change, there might be a cancel opportunity. If not, there should be. In the mean time, I can't fault them for what somebody thinks might happen.

Yodrak. | 16. marraskuu 2018

"I agree that it’s kind of timid for lane changes in traffic situations"

To follow up on my previous post, I think this is good if by "timid" you mean that NOA won't make lane changes that you would have made. If that's the case, NOA will be less likely to make a lane change in front of a driver who will feel, rightly or wrongly, they've been cut off and get excited about it.

Haggy | 19. marraskuu 2018

The problem is that many drivers don't know what it means to be cut off, and they think they are being cut off when a driver does the exact opposite of cutting them off. If I don't signal and make a sudden lane change right in front of you, that's cutting you off. If I put on my signal well in advance to let you know that I'm making a lane change, I start to change lanes when there's plenty of room, and I'm driving the same speed as traffic in the lane I'm moving into, that's not cutting somebody off.

If somebody sees that I'm about to change lanes, and intentionally moves up to block me but I continue my lane change anyway, that doesn't mean I cut somebody off. It means I followed the law, which says that I have to right to change lanes after signalling if I can do so without creating a hazard. If the other driver sees me doing so and speeds up to block me, the other driver is the one creating the hazard. Once my tire crosses the line, I'm the vehicle in front and I have the right of way.

Many drivers think that a car already in the lane has the right of way but that's only partly true. That car has the right of way over cars next to it, but not ones in front of it. If another driver in front can change lanes safely, that driver has the right to do so. Moving up to block the space, when it would mean closing the gap and not keeping a safe following distance, is not allowed. Moving up just to be a son of a bitch when there's no car in front might be legal though. In that case, the car can change lanes after you pass. But you still might have created a hazard.

Golfnspace | 19. marraskuu 2018

Used NoA twice on12 mile freeway drive. First time it worked okay. Second time we could’ve been killed. When changing lane from HOV to fast lane, it started slowing, gave alarm as I tried to accelerate, then slowed to a complete stop in front of traffic wanting to go 70mph. Only after a complete stop was I able to regain control. Still waiting for engineering to get back to me. Was told by Tesla tech to not us AP until they do.

neofelis | 19. marraskuu 2018

Used NoA from the airport (MSP) back home in heavy traffic. Did a great job including lane changes in traffic (MadMax Mode).

neofelis | 19. marraskuu 2018

Used NoA from the airport (MSP) back home in heavy traffic. Did a great job including lane changes in traffic (MadMax Mode).

jjs | 19. marraskuu 2018

My litmus test for any new feature released is whether or not I prefer to use. NoA is something I always engage if I'm travelling on a road that utilizes it. Going back and forth to work, or oft frequented destinations, I use it and stay attentive. When using it to go to new destinations I'm on high alert.

Love the feature, but it is still learning.

SoCal Buzz | 20. marraskuu 2018

@golf, I’ve also experienced (less dramatic) issues related to HOV lanes. When driving in HOV I get lane change alerts to supposedly stay on route. But it’s just trying to move out of HOV to fast lane for no reason. Sometimes it starts to slow down while figuring out which lane it should follow, primarily when HOV divides into 2 lanes (eg, HOV ramp to another freeway or 2 lane HOV segment). I find it too inconsistent to be helpful, and false alerts are annoying.

Golfnspace | 28. marraskuu 2018

It happened again.. This time I only engaged cruise control. It started slowing and audible alarms beeping. I touched the brakes to disengage and take control.

bp | 28. marraskuu 2018

I've twice had warnings that the side cameras weren't working, which disabled NOAP. Both times, this happened on my commute from home to work. And when I made the commute home, the problem was gone and NOAP was working again.

Could be a hardware issue with the side cameras, or (more likely) a false reading of problems by the AP software.

bp | 28. marraskuu 2018

Also, one area where NOAP/AutoSteer is having problems is vehicles merging into your lane in front of you.

Yesterday, I was driving at highway speeds, and a slower moving 18 wheeler in an adjacent lane indicated intent to merge into my lane using turn signals - and then slowly moved into the lane in front of me.

As I was rapidly approaching the back of the truck, and the AP software wasn't reacting, I manually engaged the brakes to slow down - and that required harder braking than usual.

This incident indicates two areas where the AP software needs improvement. First, it needs to do a better job of tracking objects in adjacent lanes when they are starting to move into your lane - and begin reacting faster, assuming the vehicle will soon be in your lane. Second, the software should be detecting the turn signals of the surrounding vehicles, and while you can't count on those 100% to be accurate, if the software also then detects the vehicle starting to change lanes - increase the confidence in the software that the lane change will happen.

Yodrak. | 28. marraskuu 2018

"I'm still waiting for my frig'in cameras to calibrate "

From a two-week old post, I've seen nothing recently. Are people still having this problem or has it been solved? Thanks

Ohmster | 28. marraskuu 2018

This was fixed some point after 42.2. 44 certainly has the fix. See here:

'17 S75 & X75D: (Uncorked AP2.5 Bio)*2, 44/42.2. Grin on!

Yodrak. | 28. marraskuu 2018

Thank you!

SO | 29. marraskuu 2018

@golfnspace - this seems to be specific to your car.

JPWhite | 19. maaliskuu 2019

I know where on my commute NOA is good and where it sucks. I can turn it on when its most likely to do good.

dsteal | 19. maaliskuu 2019

For me, lane changes with NOA don't work that well. When the traffic is even moderately heavy, it can't find the gaps. I don't know how Tesla will solve this problem. In heavy traffic, you somehow have to "make" room. People don't always open up a nice space for you just because you put your blinker on.

The rest of NOA is nice though. In light traffic, it works great. Great for a v1.

Blackbetty | 19. maaliskuu 2019

I like the noa, but often the lane changes are iffy. Even when not much traffic, it attempts and aborts and jerks back to original lane several times. Person behind me probably thinks I’m crazy.

Haggy | 19. maaliskuu 2019

Since we aren't going to get people to drive any better, the next best thing would be for Tesla to recognize when the gap isn't getting smaller rather than going by how close the car behind the gap is.

avesraggiana | 20. maaliskuu 2019

@Blackbetty. Ditto. Just last night, on my 142 mile drive from work to home it aborted a lane change. The manoeuvre was pretty violent and had anybody been in the car with me, it would have alarmed them.

I've also noticed that the Navigation on Autopilot consistently, repeatedly suggests a lane change from a perfectly clear lane ahead into an adjacent lane that puts you right behind another car. As an experiment I approved the lane change to see what would happen.

Inevitably several seconds later the NonA would suggest a lane change right back to where I was.

Kinda crazy.