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Lost 26 miles of range in the first 10,000 miles...

Lost 26 miles of range in the first 10,000 miles...

Hello all! In December of 2018 I bought my P3D+, which had about 3,000 showroom miles...battery range read about 307, I just figured it was the first 2-5% degradation kicking in for the first year early....but over the last 6 months, the range has really tanked. I'm down to 284 miles at 100%. Tesla service center has been saying since march that this was a software glitch and to give it "30 days..." It's clearly been a lot longer and it keeps getting lower and lower as each week passes and it's really bothering me. FWIW, I charge to 90% every two days or so, but don't go to 100% unless I'm leaving on a roadtrip, of which I've done several. I actually just drove from Miami to New York and back, and doing the 100%-near 0% cycle has done nothing. Can anyone here confirm whether this is a known issue? I've not seen this directly addressed on the forums...Here is the TeslaFi report. https://imgur.com/a/e1GNDLq Thanks!

Jrcase | 12. kesäkuu 2019

It sounds like you have some bad cells. Ask the SC to run a remote diagnostics test on your battery.

Teslanene | 12. kesäkuu 2019

When there are bad cells do they replace the battery or open it up and replace the cells?

andy.connor.e | 12. kesäkuu 2019

I've heard/read a statement that they have the capability of replacing modules instead of the entire pack. You either have bad cells, or those "3000 showroom miles" consisted of MANY peddles to the floor. Which would impact degradation.

Passion2Fly | 12. kesäkuu 2019

It's not all that bad. One thing which affects the battery range is outside air temperature. Between winter and summer there is a noticeable loss of range. I bet you're going to get some miles back next winter...
26 miles is, however, excessive... Why on earth did you buy a performance car with 3,000 showroom miles?? I'm sure you expected this car to show abuse...

gmr6415 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

@gaspi101, Try running it down to below 20% and charge to 100% several times in a row. Supposedly that will recalibrate the battery indicator.

After 2019.12.1 I was loosing range according to the battery indicator, which honestly I don't pay much attention to, because it's an estimate. I did the above procedure, and it did nothing.

Two weeks ago I took a long trip and supercharged about 10 times. One of those was up to 100% because I fell asleep at the supercharger. When I woke up the battery indicator was showing 310 @100% SOC as it used to.

derotam | 12. kesäkuu 2019

Charge to 100%, go for a nice LONG drive, see how many miles you actually get.

gmr6415 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

@Passion2Fly, I can't speak for LI batteries, but generally batteries show a lower SOC when cold, not when at normal operating temperature as compared to when colder.

Take an AA battery and test the voltage with a volt meter that measures in at least 10ths of a volt. Put it in the refrigerator overnight and test it. The voltage will be lower. Stick it in the freezer overnight and the voltage will be even lower.

Fredvanngo | 12. kesäkuu 2019

Let Tesla service center make the call how they can fix the problem. If some cells or modules are bad, they can replace a new/rebuilt battery for you and rebuild/rework the old one for other cars.

Fredvanngo | 12. kesäkuu 2019

My car has not lost any % after 10K miles. LR RWD may 2018 delivery. 325 miles range @ 100% :)

gballant4570 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

First, the 307 at 100% is typical for my LR AWD car as well - that's most likely a real 100% charge for the car. However, my car will charge to 306-309 at 100% today, after 12k miles. If your actual range has degraded like that you have a battery problem that should be covered. You could also get your car really close to depleted, charge to 100%, record the kwh that went into the battery for that charge, and then drive to close to depleted aqain and use the trip wh/m to determine your available battery capacity. If the result prompts an SC visit, you'll have the data to show them.

crmedved | 12. kesäkuu 2019

Interesting. To the people saying a battery problem would be covered... I ask, why? The warranty for the M3 LR battery is:

"Model 3 with Long Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles (192,000 km), whichever comes
first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity* over the warranty period."

If a few cells die, that is acceptable, no? Does Tesla actually replace batteries that are degrading faster than expected, or do they wait until it reaches the 70% mark as the warranty states?

gaspi101 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

@gballant4570 Good tip. According to TeslaFi, when coming back from NY, I supercharged from 10% to 100% and added a total of 63.41 kWh. If that really is 90% of the battery, then my usable capacity is 70.45 kWh. But again, if this is a calibration error where the computer is reading wrong the total capacity of the battery, then this number would be the same as if the computer were calibrated perfectly. I'm missing something like 7kWh here....

gaspi101 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

@crmedved Yes, I think you're right, it's not a warranty issue for the range alone...I think it's because the supposed degradation has been so immediate that they may repair on warranty because it's an obvious defect. I'm still hoping it's all software related...I just got 2019.20.1...let's see if that does anything. (please don't lose more range please don't lose more range please don't lose more range)

gaspi101 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

@gmr6415 I live in Miami. If year-round weather in the mid-80s is not normal operating temperature, I don't know what is....

gmr6415 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

@gaspi101, that comment was strictly a clarification because @Passion2Fly stated, "I bet you're going to get some miles back next winter..."

That's exactly the opposite of how a battery would work in colder temperatures. It would lose range not gain range while cold. In fact some people here noticed that last winter. They would leave their house while the battery was cold and then as the battery warmed they gained projected range on the indicator.

That said, my statement was still technically incorrect. If you take a battery and cool it, it doesn't reduce the SOC. It reduces the output voltage and amperage as long as it's in a cold state, which would translate to a loss of range. My apologies. I didn't word that correctly.

kevin_rf | 12. kesäkuu 2019

What month was it built, didn't tesla have a quiet recall on some July builds because of some badly bonded wires in some of the packs?

gaspi101 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

@gmr6415 gotcha. Misunderstood what you meant because that makes no sense to us here where winter is still mid-80s temp. Thanks!

gaspi101 | 12. kesäkuu 2019

@kevin_rf not sure the month..how do I find out? I don’t have the window sticker...

kevin_rf | 13. kesäkuu 2019

Tesla is kind enough to provide a web page in which you enter your VIN

https://www.tesla.com/vin-recall-search

gmr6415 | 13. kesäkuu 2019

@kevin_rf, Thanks for that link. I called Tesla and asked them where I could find a list of VINs that were affected and they told me it didn't exist, but that they could look mine up. They looked mine up and it wasn't an affected VIN. Now I can double check that.

kallian | 13. kesäkuu 2019

The mileage calculation does take into account your lead foot.
Take a look at the energy graph and drive speed limit on chill and look at your wh/mi report. It will be drastically different over 30 mi.
I am in the same boat. If you floor the P3D, you will not have the same mileage shown by the battery display.
It does take into your driving pattern to show you how much mileage you can go.

VolleyballNE1 | 13. kesäkuu 2019

a negative search result may not tell you much if the search is buggy. I would trust a positive result more. Who actually is on the recall list?

gaspi101 | 13. kesäkuu 2019

@kevin_rf thanks for the links! My vin has no outstanding recalls...

@kallian where did you get this from? My understanding is that the estimated range is reflected in the energy graph, and energy graph only...even the Tesla service center told me that the degradation is measured by the battery indicator, provided it's adequately calibrated...this sum shouldn't change...this is why there are two readings, Rated and Ideal. We're talking about Rated miles here....So even if I'm doing 240 Wh/mile, I'm only getting 284 miles out of the entire battery pack....

kallian | 13. kesäkuu 2019

ok if you are doing 240wh/mi then yes its degradation.
But the regular battery mi indicator by the speed does take into account driving habit. It tells me I have 280 miles, but driving slower I physically travel 20 miles, but then it tells me I have 265 remaining.
So when it was telling me I had to 280, that was from my previous driving habit. That is why I asked you look at the energy graph instead, its more accurate representation for now, vs 280 mi driving avg.

gaspi101 | 14. kesäkuu 2019

@kallian I’m not sure I agree with you. The example you gave shows the battery indicator NOT changing to reflect your economic driving style. Of course you can drive more or less miles than indicated on the battery indicator by driving more or less efficiently. But my understanding is that the battery indicator should always show the number of miles remaining if you are driving at 240 wh/mile. (74.4 kWh usable battery / 240 Wh =310 miles). In other words, if I’m driving faster and less economically, the battery indicator should just tick the miles down faster, not give me an anticipated range based on my driving habits. Indeed, if it was based on my driving habits, it should read closer to 210 miles!

gballant4570 | 15. kesäkuu 2019

I am thinking the SOC mileage estimate at the battery icon is based on the wh/m that supports the EPA rating. This is why the energy graph, taking into account your recent wh/m average, will yield a different estimate for the miles your SOC will allow.

gaspi101 | 16. kesäkuu 2019

@gballant4570 exactly. So if I have 284 miles at EPA wh/m, then my 78Kw battery pack only has 68Kw of usable capacity...not good

gballant4570 | 16. kesäkuu 2019

But the number shown next to the SOC indicator is not necessarily a good enough indicator to use to determine battery health. It may however indicate that better means should be brought to bear to see if you really have a battery problem.....I'd rely on the wh/m applied to a full battery (with percentage SOC displayed) after being driven to a very low SOC, and then charge back to 100% and see if the wh/m supports the kw added to the battery. Might be best to use a supercharger, it readily displays the kw added. You could then come to a more definitive conclusion, and determine if the data supports a warranty claim.

gaspi101 | 16. heinäkuu 2019

I thought folks reading this might be interested to know, the problem may have been fixed by the service center by performing a CAC reset. Update here: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/cdzseb/battery_degradation...