To melt away the Arctic ice, it will take a lot more than 274 deg. K!
See the 2019 summertime temperatures north of 80 deg. North latitude? Same as the 1958-2002 mean!
Hey andy, the point is simple. The Northern Hemisphere had a warming trend in the early 20th Century. Then the temperatures declined from the 1950s through the 1970s. The Arctic Ice and the Greenland Surface Mass Balance increased dramatically during this period. Then the multi-decadal warming cycle started up in the 1980s, and the polar ice subsequently turned to a decreasing stage. And many of you have become hysterical about it. It is as if there was no climate history before 1979.
So, people like me just simply take the data that is available to the general public, and shares it in public forums. There are all kinds of sensational articles that are written, and many here in the Tesla Forum are mesmerized by them. But there is an abundance of data that is available to examine. All one has to do is look at it.
When you global warming zealots make a claim that the Arctic ice is melting away to oblivion, all you have to do is look at the data.
Actually, the ice has been quite stable during the past decade. So the claim is false!
@jimglas. He is like one of those dolls you buy in a store. You pull a string and one of a few pre canned messages comes out of his mouth in random order
what amazes me is that he thinks anyone reads his reposted crap
What DOESN'T amaze me is the complete lack of substantive thought that comes from the likes of SCCRENDODO and jimmy glassie boy.
Here is some NSIDC data dating back to 1960.
See how the surface mass balance is positive during the Northern Hemispheric cool-down period of the 1960s through the 1970s? The snow and ice was building up over Greenland then. Then the SMB started slowing down in the 1980s and the 1990s as the warming period was underway. Then you can see the meltwater runoff going on in the 2000s. This is what many of you alarmists are pointing to as "proof" of human-caused global warming.
What a climate realist points out is that the snow and ice builds up and melts/calves away over decades of time. If the snow/ice never melted/calved, then the ice would just continue to build into a big giant mound way above the current 3000 meters. Eventually gravity will take over and pull the glacial ice out to sea at an accelerated rate - creating lots and lots of icebergs!
So, this certainly appears to be the result of natural climate variation. The ice built up during the cold period, then melted away some during the warm period. What do global warming zealots think? It will just keep melting away and away without ever cycling back?
I read that already SCCRENDODO. The DMI scientist mentioned a lot of ice melt that happened in 1950. That was the result of a massive Northern Hemispheric warming trend that occurred in the early 20th Century. I've been trying to tell you this for years, but you refuse to believe it!
Mayby you think you know everything, and you think you're always right, because you worked in weather prediction for a while.
andy, I just look at the data and share it with those of you who think the polar ice is melting away to oblivion. Many here don't like that. In fact, if they had their way, they would erase the data which supports natural climate variation.
Want some perspective on the hottest July ever? Here, have a look.
Doesn't quite look like the earth is on fire does it?
Check out polar temperature.
Take a look at the temperature swings in both hemispheres. Can you spot anything that looks alarming to you? Lots and lots of data. Maybe you global warming zealots don't want to look!
I am still surprised this topic is still here. Wheres the flags?
Agreed, I have flagged him and requested others to do so. @jimglas feels that we should give him his own thread where he can chat to himself and stop annoying us.
Im good with that. I'll unflag.
After the big CNN Greenland Ice Sheet Melt sensation, the Greenland Ice melt is now back down to normal, on schedule. Have a look.
The 2019 spikes were not as high as the 2012 ones.
Any comments on the data? Or do you global warming zealots prefer to look for some news article to sensationalize how bad global warming is.
All I do is bring data to the discussion. Anybody care to discuss the data? Can anybody discuss the data?
Is anybody out there?
Pink Floyd - 1979
Use the google mitch
its easy to get actual facts
Hey jimmy, anything wrong with the National Snow and Ice Data Center??!!!
Anything wrong with the Greenland Ice Sheet data?
New information on ocean temperatures and quantity of tornadoes in USA in April.
That makes some sense about the cold Pacific andy. Check out the National Climate Data Center data on EF3+ tornadoes since 1954.
There were many more violent tornadoes in the 1960s and the 1970s than now. Why? Because it was colder back then!
In case you flaggie boys want to know where I got the graph from, here it is.
Anything wrong with NOAA data flaggie boys?
The graph there about EF3-5 tornadoes almost looks like the frequency is going down, but becoming more consistent across years.
Greenland Ice Sheet data is not the problem. But how to interpret the data? Surface mass balance is only part of the concern. What of calving and basal melting under the ice shelves? Data from GRACE satelites allow a good summary of overall ice mass changes. Zack Labe's twitter links to a chart of NASA data: https://pbs.twimg.
I recommend just leaving the weather moron alone in his forum echo chamber. Responding to his idiot posts is a total waste of time. You will never change his mind. His so called experts have been repeatedly debunked, yet he keeps posting them, and misuses the data from reputable sources..
@teslu3. Tesla-David is correct. This Greenland crap has been rinsed and repeated multiple times. The surface area stays the same, increases or decreases depending on snowfall. But this does not take into account glacier loss which is i think is either 20 or 200 gigatons per year. Just look at the all links I have posted on this thread about a funeral to a glacier, a hot summer there and the disappearing glaciers. It does not take a genius to realize he cherry picks numbers that he thinks will fool you into believing his narrative
If you guys want to leave Mitch be, then you need to be disciplined. Stay out of the thread. Not that it will make much difference; he will still try and provoke with his asinine comments elsewhere, but it is up to you to respond or not.
i think we need to respond on his thread occassionally so he thinks we are ingaged
Even after reading this, Mitch, I’m sure won’t resist the urge to keep posting here.
If your old grandfather started raving about buying countries and being the chosen one. At the barest minimum you would take away the car keys
Back from my swing shift. I don't go into the Tesla Forum while I'm at work. Too much weather worldwide to monitor.
Surprised to see 8 responses. I can tell climate data really does disturb you flaggie boys. andy, "almost looks like the frequency is going down?" It has gone down. The EF1 tornadoes are the ones that show more consistency. But note that before the age of cell phones, think of all of the EF1 land-spout tornadoes that were missed!
teslu3, that chart you posted only goes back to 2002. There are studies of the Greenland ice sheet that goes back to 1900. Check out the melting period of the 1920s through the 1940s.
What have I been trying to tell you all of these years??!!!
The chart comes from a combined research effort by the UK, France and Belgium. Page 122.
What is happening in Greenland now is only a repeat of what has happened in the recent past.
Hey Tessie flaggie boy. Got anything substantive to say about the Greenland ice sheet data? You act as if I am making all of this data up!
Hey RedShift, is climate data diabolical to you?
SCCRENDODO, as always, is a Null Set.
The weathermoron has lost a major benefactor. Please accept our condolenceshttps://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/environment-not-shedding-tear
Tots and Pears
I lost a fellow libertarian thinker. But that's about it concerning my benefit.
Now, to irritate you global warming zealots. Dr. Tim Ball wins court case against Dr. Michael Mann! Mann has to pay the court costs! You global warming zealots going to pitch in to help out your hero?
Again, surface mass balance (SMB) is but one component of ice mass changes.
The trend for Greenland ice mass is down during the satellite record. See Figure 3 inhttps://www.pnas.org/content/116/19/9239
A tribute to Koch and what we despise about himhttps://www.cnn.com/2019/08/23/politics/david-koch-charles-koch-brothers...
teslu3, I already posted the same link you did on 19 AUG, first one of the day. I pointed out that according to the calculations of the scientists with PNAS, since 1972, the Greenland ice sheet lost 4,976 Gt, which is equivalent to 13.7 mm of sea level rise, about 1/2 inch!
Is 1/2 inch of sea level rise since 1972 something for you global warming zealots to go into hysterics about?
Speaking of Greenland, let's have a look at the GFS model temperatures.
Look at the deg. F scale on the right and look at Greenland. It is still August. Do you silly zealots still think the Greenland snow and ice will melt to oblivion? The temperatures across Greenland are way below freezing!
Is marijuana legal in Texas. If not guess who is purchasing out of state. The earth is warming, glaciers are melting and this dickhead still thinks that’s climate change is not happening.
See the difference between a global warming zealot and a climate realist like me? I bring data to the debate. SCCRENDODO brings "dickhead." And that is the fundamental difference between us! Don't y'all think that's kinda funny?
Here is a Northern Hemispheric view of 2-meter temperatures in deg. C.
See the -20 deg C isotherm? This is still August by the way. This idea that the Greenland ice sheet is going to melt away to oblivion is "complete delusional nonsense" as Jeremy Corbyn's big brother Piers says.
This is to satisfy jimglas’ requirement. :-)
“I bring data to the debate.”
You bring cherry picked data to the debate. Sometimes, you bring data from sources that have been discredited on that data.
What data has been discredited RedShift? You won't be able to site one source of data I've presented here that has been discredited!
Let's start with my most recent data sharing - GFS model. Is that discredited RedShift?
"zealots" "hysterics" "silly zealots". Sounds like projection.
Projecting 13.7mm for past 55 years linearly indeed is a problem.
Freezing air temps over Greenland in mid-August are typical, for now.
SMB is but one of 3 major factors determing ice mass; also consider water temps and calving.
Arctic ocean ice volume in late summer is nearly half from a few decades ago.
The vast majority of climate scientists clearly show that future Arctic temperature trends are increasing non-linearly.
Cherry-picking data does not refute this.
hey teslu3, did climate history stop in 1979? That is apparently what you global warming zealots think. 1979 was the peak year after the Arctic freeze up from the 1950s through the 1970s. You act as if 1979 was the "normal" year, and the multi-decadal Arctic ice decline afterwards is "abnormal." You hysterical ones are the ultimate cherry pickers. You absolutely ignore the early 20th Century warming period that melted down the Arctic and Greenland ice much like what is happening now.
Speaking of Greenland, the melt area percentage is now down to zero after all of the hysterical rantings about it melting away!
You can see the melt area in sq. km is also close to zero now.
2019 had some pretty big ice melt spikes. But 2012 still eclipses 2019.
Hey, any of you global warming zealots up for the Arctic Ice challenge? Earlier this year, I drew the line up to 4,500,000 km^2 to try to get one of you global warming hysterics to challenge me. As I expected, you limp-wrists backed down. But guess what? I actually think the Arctic ice extent minimum will drop below 4,500,000 km^2 this year. But that don't matter. I'm a man of my word. I just now gave you a tip that I will most likely lose the challenge!
Any of you global warming zealots want to challenge me? You have 24 hours to respond. The time now is:
25 AUG 2019 2156Z
@ Mitch Get back to us when you and Jethro Bodine make it out of sixth grade. Win, lose or draw your so called challenge is C...H...I...L...D...I...S...H.
The 25 AUG 2019 Arctic sea ice extent is now 4.670,000 km^2.
It is now 26 AUG 2019 2026Z. Got one hour left for the challenge! And I'm doing the politically correct thing by allowing you liberals to win!
Is anybody out there?
Pink Floyd -1979
ice is three dimensional
@jimglas. And our universe is likely 11 dimensional. Please don't confuse the poor man. He has only realized that Mars is 3 dimensional but still thinks the earth is flat and 2 dimensional
The Danish folks figure out ice thickness as well. Check it out.
Lots of 2-3 meter thick ice in August. Don't believe 274 deg. K is going to melt that away to oblivion like you goofy silly socialists think!
The 80N to North Pole average temperature just dropped below 273K. Arctic freeze up phase around the corner.