If you can't buy a Model 3, what manufacturers to avoid

If you can't buy a Model 3, what manufacturers to avoid

I completely get why some people may not want to buy a Model 3. And can't wait until Model Y is released. So, for those folks, I appeal to your environmental concerns for the planet.

Looking at a recent NBC article, apparently Honda, Ford, BMW and VolksWagen (blech) have sided with California in its decision to pursue higher gas mileage standards. Apparently Toyota, Mazda, Fiat Chrysler, and GM are not. You know, I used to like Toyota for their cars. As years go by, I'm liking them less and less.

People in our country, always say - "Well, consumers should vote with their wallets". So, this is the goal of my post. Also, I'm hoping more informed people than me, here, might shed more light on some of the companies listed here.

Choose wisely, my friends. A car is now a statement and also a decent commitment that lasts many years, and leaves a footprint depending on your choice.

vmulla | 16. marraskuu 2019

That's a good question. Over the hundreds of rides I gave and introduced people to EVs and Tesla, I always have the same closing plea: If you're going to buy a brand new car, make it an EV, don't help put another ICE on the road.

Magic 8 Ball | 16. marraskuu 2019

For most people a car is a tool. Advertising wants to tug at your emotions and have you forget about being practical. They decided with CA or they realize they have to comply if they want to sell cars in one of the largest markets in the world?

Unfortunately all the companies you list are in a world of hurt since they are supporting and promoting obsolete technology. They are still trying to prop up their film camera business and enter into the digital camera business half heartedly. I think Kodak tried that, ever heard of them?

gballant4570 | 16. marraskuu 2019

Another argument is the stranded asset argument. Any new ICE purchase won't hold up to current resale value estimates in the future, as newer used cars hit the used car market bringing down prices.

However, there are many people who simply cannot make the mental TCO calculations to justify the initial outlay difference, and I have put some thought into the "other maker" guidance. To this point there are none I can credibly make - I've moved instead to the suggestion that if the person is waiting a few years, to see what the EV landscape looks like at that time, see what VW actually does, etc....

It doesn't help that the person I am talking to is riding in my Tesla, and they have of course developed the idea that they really want one of those.

gballant4570 | 16. marraskuu 2019

And as far as Toyota/Lexus goes, they have gotten so terribly UGLY that I cannot figure out how they still sell anything.

Earl and Nagin ... | 16. marraskuu 2019

If not a Tesla, a used compliance car makes sense. They are extremely cheap, allowing the buyer to continue saving for a Tesla, Bolt, or useful EV.

Jalinllc | 16. marraskuu 2019

Eastman Kodak is a great example of being too focused and worried about cannibalizing your current business (Film) instead of obsoleting your current business YOURSELF with a new technology that they invented (digital photography), instead .... the rest is history!

Tesla is just the opposite!!

Wilber | 16. marraskuu 2019

What about Nissan and Kia/Hyundai? Which side are they on?

FISHEV | 16. marraskuu 2019

"A car is now a statement and also a decent commitment that lasts many years, and leaves a footprint depending on your choice."

Always has been really. Buy a post WWII VW bug was a statement. Same on the first small fuel efficient Japanese imports. Same on the performance EU cars. Same on the 1st Diesel Rabbit build in PA during the oil embargo crisis of the late 1900's. Same on Escape Hybrid to Prius to Subaru.

1. Buy American if possible.
2. Buy an no-lo emissions vehicle to encourage them to build more.
3. Buy super safe vehicle to survive other's bad decisions...and my own.

In 2020 should be a lot of choices. On the US side, Ford's PHEV Escape and EV Mustang fastback look to be great choices.

Leaning to selling Model 3 due to the lack of basic safeties (TACC, BSI, LK, RCTW) and going with the Mustang in 2020.

Magic 8 Ball | 16. marraskuu 2019

@Fish You better get your deposit in early, Ford has a bunch of gigafactories planned to support demand, NOT!

Bighorn | 16. marraskuu 2019

I covet Ford’s 80 kW charging. Who wouldn’t? /s
Stupid is as stupid does. Just do the opposite of FISH.

spuzzz123 | 16. marraskuu 2019

What happened to the Kona EV, Fish? Mustang Mach e not available until 2021 and that’s if you reserve now.

jimglas | 16. marraskuu 2019

Fish is under new management

FISHEV | 16. marraskuu 2019

"What happened to the Kona EV, Fish?"

Always there, arguably the best feature/price/performance EV on the market.

"Mustang Mach e not available until 2021"

They are saying 4th quarter 2020.

jebinc | 16. marraskuu 2019


In the past, I purchased cars and then had buyer’s remorse. One being a 2015 Lexus IS 350 Fsport. I just wasn’t thrilled with it, so rather than suffering with it, and posting endlessly about my suffering in Lexus IS forums, I just sold it and got something I was more happy with. “Free will,” as they say. Why do you continue to own a car you’re just not happy with, and why continue to share your ongoing pain and suffering in an enthusiasts forum? Why not exercise “Free Will” yourself? I suspect you, and others here, would be happier if you did.

Bighorn | 16. marraskuu 2019

Can't reason with mental illness.

FISHEV | 16. marraskuu 2019

"In the past, I purchased cars and then had buyer’s remorse."@jebinc.

Didn't actually. Tesla is the one with the most buyers remorse for me due to the problems Tesla has with the basic AP from cruise to blind spot to lank keep to cross traffic. Very contradictory car with super EV tech and 3rd safeties.

SamO | 16. marraskuu 2019

Best active and passive safety systems.


jebinc | 16. marraskuu 2019


Then you should sell the PoS (in your mind) and move on, no? Gotta suck to feel so bad for so long.


Check. Was my first, and penultimate, engagement. This will be my last. Just had to be sure.

Have a good weekend all; enjoy the nice free upgrade Tesla bestowed upon us.

FISHEV | 16. marraskuu 2019

"Then you should sell the PoS (in your mind) and move on, no?"@jebinc

That is the plan for next year. Electrify America is building out its 150kW fast charging system. Here's a new one under construction right near one of my shops.

Tesla could fix the issues with basic AP but I doubt they will so have to sell. Real question is spending the $1.2k to put in a working blind side indicator?

1. Ford Mach E
2. Hyundai Kona EV/Niro EV
3. Lots of EV's coming out in 2020.

Like to buy US so hoping the Ford reveal tomorrow and taking deposits will be all good.

Magic 8 Ball | 16. marraskuu 2019

So this is going to be a 4 door Mustang? Is it a sedan? I thought sedans were dead? I think you should get a Volt @Fish. You will get maximum resale for your model 3 if you sell it tomorrow. You can drive your superior Subaru until you find just the right Volt and life would be so much better for you. The agony of your Tesla ownership sounds more painful than I could image. I was broke and stuck with a brand new Toyota truck that was a lemon oil leaker. I did not want to go through the hassle of trying to get Toyota to make it right so I traded it in for a brand new Nissan. I cut the misery of my Toyota ownership quickly despite having to put myself in more of a financial hole to get out. It was an excellent decision. The Nissan lasted me a long time, low on maintenance, economical to run, etc.

@Fish Get out now, life is too short to own a car that you spend so much time in. Based on your sell because of warranty posts you plan to put on huge miles next year so why spend so much time in a car you hate? You will get maximum resale now.

KAM6 | 16. marraskuu 2019

What would you consider an American car?

vishious911 | 16. marraskuu 2019

@FISHEV: Please don't make me hate Ford Mustang for no good reason. Also, why do you have to "fish" every thread with your buyer's remorse?

Are your threads being taken down, that you have to resort to this in other threads? I just wanted a manufacturer awareness thread.

FISHEV | 16. marraskuu 2019

"Also, why do you have to "fish" every thread with your buyer's remorse?"@vishious911

What to buy other than Tesla thread. Listed my current most likely choice and why I'd change, what I'd be looking for in features...seems on topic. Answer the questions does induce a bit of drift...sorry about that.

jebinc | 16. marraskuu 2019


First, thank you for the detailed reply. In all seriousness, get out of a car you’re not happy with and get into something you will be. Life is too short. The EV industry just taking off and improvements to all brands will arrive on an exponential basis; just like any new tech (e.g., computers, cell phones, etc.). Get something you like better now (to be happier) and trade up as the industry matures and prices come down. If that’s a Kona or Bolt, so be it. All the best.

jebinc | 16. marraskuu 2019

^^^ PS. Thanks for buying US.

spuzzz123 | 16. marraskuu 2019

Jeb please tell me u aren’t falling for his bs

jebinc | 16. marraskuu 2019


Not falling for, or putting up with, his or anyone else’s BS. Just being polite as that was my only exchange with him. As they say in the legal profession, “Asked an answered”. Unlike some others, you won’t see me generating pages of back and forth with the same person,in someone else’s thread, either.

Magic 8 Ball | 17. marraskuu 2019

@jebinc You are a hypocrite, You are contributing as much BS as some and more than most. You have an agenda to push this forum into what you want it to be. Your bully crap about cancer is just as bad as any of the other crap I have seen here.

billtphotoman | 17. marraskuu 2019

I don't buy cars to make statements and tend to keep them 10 years so if I would avoid manufactures that make expensive to repair or failure prone vehicles. If Tesla didn't exist (or specifically the model 3 LR didn't exist) we would still have our 2018 Nissan Leaf as our in-town car and a Toyota or Honda ICE hybrid vehicle for our road trip capable car. Basically Tesla is the only brand of car I am willing to pay over $30K for.

gballant4570 | 17. marraskuu 2019

Life is so much better without any stinking FISH......

FISHEV | 17. marraskuu 2019

"I covet Ford’s 80 kW charging."@Bighorn

Me to. Just 60kW of charging at Vancouver Tesla SC this AM because of it being full. Everyone tried to stagger to every other charger but too many Model 3'ers. Shared mine with an X from CA.

The Ford (reveal and taking deposits starts this evening) Mustang EV using the 80kW Electrify America charger would be a 20 kW boost. Be interesting to see if the 150kW EA chargers are paired similar to Tesla's where charging is split between two cars on same circuit reducing the rate to 60kW. Or will the EA's each put out 150kW?

Ford does say 150kW charging rate so we'll see what actual is at reveal tonight.

"A targeted EPA range rating of “at least” 300 miles, and a charging rate of around 47 miles in just 10 minutes with a 150kW DC fast charger, with two years of free charging across Ford’s EV charger network included."

"Free charging" will save me $3,234 over two years vs. my Model 3. Plus the $7,500 Federal tax credit.

jebinc | 17. marraskuu 2019

I look forward to the period of EV explosion and advancement as well. Recall, this was Elon's original reason for wanting to do Tesla - to force an accelerated function changeover from ICE to EV, IIRC. Will be fun to watch all of the reveals over the next 24 months. Many will be duds, but some will be pretty good too. MY first "fun" car was a Mustang ('79 2.3l Turbo, four on the floor, etc.).

jebinc | 17. marraskuu 2019


How did you find the Ford reveal?