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Lazy journalism in Quartz Chevy Bolt article

Lazy journalism in Quartz Chevy Bolt article

Going to try and link to it: qz dot com/785707/the-chevy-bolt-will-cost-more-and-is-uglier-than-a-tesla-model-3-but-youll-actually-be-able-to-get-one/

Anyway in it the write claims that the M3 has a max range of 215 (instead of min). Makes no effort to determine where Chevy will be selling
them. With Tesla you know the M3 will be available globally.

It goes on...

EaglesPDX | 02. lokakuu 2016

@mp1156 ""It's not the trunk we are looking to modify. "we? Seriously LMAO."

Well seriously enough that Musk responded publicly that Tesla would fix the rear opening to make it more like the TS liftback. Since I wasn't the only one asking for it....must have been thousands of T3 buyers...guess it's we.

Bolt has a hatcback and the Volt modified similar to what Mush promised in providing a liftback.

KP in NPT | 02. lokakuu 2016

Please cite a quote where musk promised a liftback.

EaglesPDX | 02. lokakuu 2016

mp1156 "Please cite a quote where musk promised a liftback."

If the Tesla forums have a search feature, you should be able to find it.

akgolf | 02. lokakuu 2016

@EaglesPDX - "If the Tesla forums have a search feature, you should be able to find it."

It doesn't exist, so you want mp1156 to find something that you made up?

Talk about a slimy used car salesman.

KP in NPT | 03. lokakuu 2016

@eagles you cannot cite a quote from Elon musk or anyone official at Tesla because it does not exist.

EaglesPDX | 03. lokakuu 2016

@mp1156 "you cannot cite a quote from Elon musk or anyone official at Tesla because it does not exist."

Chuckle...there was quite the thread about it here and Musk's Twitter quote about "fixing" the trunk opening in response has been posted here and on the internet. You can either pretend it doesn't exist and look a bit foolish or not. It must have been a substantial number of comments about it, internally and externally, for Musk to respond so quickly and forcefully.

There were some drawings showing the likely fix in moving the hinge point up enough to not impact that rear seat passengers but enough to duplicate the functional TS liftback people were asking for. Interestingly from the diagrams, the issue became rear view. Perhaps Musk will imitate GM and the Bolt with the camera "mirror" that provides great rear view and also 360 view.

KP in NPT | 03. lokakuu 2016

Are you really this dense? Yes, we are all aware of EM's tweets. But please show me where in that tweet or any other statement from him or Tesla Motors that includes anything close to the word "hatchback" or "lift back." I've asked you several times now and you still have not done it.

He says they will be enlarging the trunk opening, and that it is "already taken care of." Why would you would extrapolate liftback from that is beyond me.

I am among the many owners here that follow every single thing that EM and Tesla says. I have watched every video, read every tweet, statement, article - and nowhere, ever, did they say "yeah, there is a group of people on the internet that are clamoring for a liftback and so we are going to redo the design of the Model 3 to make them happy."

I was also on the thread regarding the trunk of the Model 3. It is a bunch of speculation - so common around here. The issue of the trunk was raised immediately after the reveal, and Tesla said immediately that they are"working on enlarging the trunk opening." Personally, I doubt this had anything to do with a thread on this forum (or any other) but that the trunk opening was unfinished on the prototype (as was the interior and the nose) and that they knew all along they would "enlarge" it.

The drawings you reference are nothing more than renderings done by Tesla/car enthusiasts, just as there have been renderings of a Tesla station wagon, pickup truck, Semi, convertible, etc etc etc. Unless it comes from Tesla Motors, it is pure fantasy.

Of course, if you could cite something maybe we all missed, I'm sure that would be big news around here.

dsvick | 03. lokakuu 2016

@EaglesPDX - "Well seriously enough that Musk responded publicly that Tesla would fix the rear opening to make it more like the TS liftback"

At no point did the Model S come into the discussion. He said they'd make the trunk opening on the M3 larger. That's it, nothing else, no mention of the MS, no mention of a hatchback, no mention of anythind else other than making it larger. You can read whatever else you want into that statement, but you'd be wrong.

makobill | 03. lokakuu 2016

Wasted breathe... I quit chiming in on the Bolt threads, and this will be my last, as I'm fresh out of troll food. Eagles has an agenda and has soured the entire batch of discussion. Tesla first - tesla vision first - misinformation communication isn't an interest to me personally. This is first and foremost, a TESLA forum...

SamO | 03. lokakuu 2016

@mp1156, @dsvick, @makobill,

The troll is how GM tries winning over customers. Guess their preorders aren't as robust as they'd hoped with their double priced micro car for $45,000. But they must think that FUD will win over Tesla fans.

Can't imagine the dolt that would waste their money on any GM product, but P.T. Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute."

P.S. See the quotation marks? That's how you quote someone saying something. Don't paraphrase. Don't ASSUME. Don't make up something you wish they'd said.

Just like I know that Eagle PDX is "Portland's no 1 Bear and Leather bar!"
http://www.eagleportland.com/

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

;-)

EaglesPDX | 03. lokakuu 2016

@mp1156 "He says they will be enlarging the trunk opening, and that it is "already taken care of." Why would you would extrapolate liftback from that is beyond me."

Because that is what people like myself asked for and that specific request is what Musk responded to and because the TS, the larger version of the T3, has a liftback.

Hopefully the T3's liftback is good at the Volts.

KP in NPT | 04. lokakuu 2016

Well we will see. But since it hasn't been revealed yet, we don't know. So stop acting like you do.

EaglesPDX | 04. lokakuu 2016

SamO "Can't imagine the dolt that would waste their money on any GM product"

Or BMW or Toyota or Ford or ANY EV, plug-in, or hybrid other than Tesla. The Tesla or nothing attitude is counter productive to Tesla's mission and the point of building EV etc in the first place.

In Europe, Tesla is No. 5 in EV sales. In US in 2016 to date, Ford and GM have sold 22,000 plug-in's vs. Tesla's 18,000. That's a good thing. The radical Teslerati fear this rise of the EV machine out of misplaced "loyalty" to Tesla.

The Bolt looks to be an excellent EV, good range, very practical, lots of tech stuff like CarPlay and Auto, a design that fashionistas like Wired find "sleek".

jordanrichard | 04. lokakuu 2016

You do realize that you could put CarPlay in a 1975 Ford Pinto, right?

Also can you cite any other review that called the Bolt sleek, because you just keep bring that 1 and only description up.

SamO | 04. lokakuu 2016
KP in NPT | 04. lokakuu 2016

@SamO LMAO!!!!

Red Sage ca us | 04. lokakuu 2016

The BOLT is every bit as sleek as a FIT.

Oh, wait...

TeslaTap.com | 05. lokakuu 2016

@Eagles - "In US in 2016 to date, Ford and GM have sold 22,000 plug-in's vs. Tesla's 18,000"

Not sure where you get those crazy numbers. Tesla has sold over 34,000 vehicles in the first 9 months this year in the USA, all which are EVs. Ford and GM together have sold a total of 3,376 EVs in the same period in the USA. Plug-ins are not EVs, but just a low performance gas car with a tiny battery and motor. Even the most powerful plug-ins, the Volt and ELR combined have only sold 16,849 units this year.

Nothing wrong with those non-Tesla sales, but no one is making and selling EVs or Plugins at the rate Tesla is. Here's the latest sales:

TeslaTap.com | 05. lokakuu 2016

Thanks to insideEvs for the chart. Here's more details:
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

KP in NPT | 05. lokakuu 2016

Like I said before, figures lie when liars figure.

Thanks for posting the facts, TeslaTap.

gregcropper | 05. lokakuu 2016

Even if Chevy was selling the Bolt for $20,000, I wouldn't step foot on one of their lots to talk to one of their greasy con-artist salesmen.

GM is a dinosaur. How soon before they go bankrupt AGAIN?

EaglesPDX | 05. lokakuu 2016

@Teslatapcom "Not sure where you get those crazy numbers."

GM, Ford 37,235
Tesla 34,455

Those crazy numbers? From the updated plug in sales numbers you posted. Total for US mfg's might hit 100,000 this year.

Still way too small a number. We need much bigger incentives for EV's and much greater disincentives for ICE's.

burdogg | 05. lokakuu 2016

@eagles - I am not sure why you are having to ADD TOGETHER GM and FORD to compare it with ONE Tesla? Lost on what you are trying to show there.
Tesla - 34,455
GM - 19045
Ford - 17687
AND note that you talk of EV's but yet we are comparing mostly gas in the GM and Ford cars as was mentioned by Teslatap. It is not this fear of other companies, it is the half-hearted act they put on like they really want to produce EV's. They are really doing it because of the government mandate to get their fleet EPA's up to a certain standard - they can't do it with the cars they have, so they make these compliant cars so they can continue to sell their mega SUV's and Trucks. A serious company would start working WITH Tesla, coming up with deals to utilize charging infrastructure or even building out their own, instead of trying to bury Tesla so it will go away so they can continue on with their ICE and half ICE cars.
That is the problem that most have with GM, Ford, et al - the movement by them is not for a mass shift in cars, just compliance. The Longer Tesla sticks around, and the more they sell, then maybe, and this is a long shot, maybe GM, Ford et al will come around (although i still doubt it seeing how nasty they are trying to stop Tesla - not allowing stores in their state, talk about buying out politics.)
There, food to chew on and now tell me how wrong I am in every way. Just wanted to put it out there for other readers who truly care to look at facts.

EaglesPDX | 05. lokakuu 2016

@burdogg "That is the problem that most have with GM, Ford, et al - the movement by them is not for a mass shift in cars, just compliance."

Government regulations are good. Compliance is good. Sales of plug-ins is good. Its why the complaints about the Bolt (and all non-Tesla)plug-ins from BMW's to NIssan's) are so misguided.

As for the mega SUV's and trucks, get the public to stop buying them and car mfg.s will stop making them.

burdogg | 05. lokakuu 2016

Still are not getting it - they don't want to change. They are happy with their dealer situation. Dealers make more money with ICE and servicing ICE. A true change would be willing to invest in infrastructure. You totally gloss over that in my discussion. True change from these manufacturers would be creating such a vast network that it would kill the long distance travel non-existence for these cars. I know you will tout we should be excited for any change, and yes, some commuters will change but not drastic enough. The only drastic change will come as distance travel becomes enhanced. Tesla would not have succeeded if they did not have an infrastructure in place - hence why they worked so hard to get it up and going. When say GM gets serious and builds or works on a plan to build out something to support EV travel, then I will applaud the Bolt. For now, forgive most of us for the hate, but we don't see GM's heart in this business nor desire for long term success. That my friend is why all the hate. We just don't trust them right now. They have to earn that and so far have not put forth enough to gain my trust.

EaglesPDX | 05. lokakuu 2016

An article that might bring you up to speed on EV's.

"How Did G.M. Create Tesla’s Dream Car First?"

nytimes.com/2016/09/15/technology/how-did-gm-create-teslas-dream-car-first.html?src=me

burdogg | 05. lokakuu 2016

Ha, ha, ha, ha,. Wait...ha ha ha. You just revealed yourself - a True GM salesman. That article was horrible. If I have ever read anything anti-Tesla, that nailed it. It reeked of I hate Musk, Tesla will Fail, etc...When a car company as he stated, sells a car at a loss, why are they doing it? They are doing it not to transition to becoming an EV leader and getting rid of ICE. They are doing it to try to upend Tesla and then move on their merry way. Lets not mention that GM CAN'T produce the amount of vehicles in a year that TESLA WILL because of the LACK of enough batteries. Hence, Tesla and the GIGAFACTORY. I could go on, but I am done again with the GM salesman, troll, et al - you can say all you want, but that article and posting it here, just proved we have no need to comment to you anymore.

KP in NPT | 06. lokakuu 2016

"the very fact that there is a waiting list highlights its fundamental hardship. "

Bwraaaaaaahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was a good one.

EaglesPDX | 06. lokakuu 2016

@burdogg "That article was horrible. If I have ever read anything anti-Tesla, that nailed it. It reeked of I hate Musk, Tesla will Fail, etc.."

Yikes. Overreaction Wednesday. It was a nice analysis article in the New York Times. It laid out why the Bolt was important building block for GM going to EV's, how GM was building a supply chain and how the major car mfg's will massive mfg. infrastructure can ramp up and why it is a struggle for Tesla. Why it is important that GM and other car mfg's be working toward that goal as Tesla will be a niche player for the next 10 years.

For those of use who put up the $1K and got on the T3 list, I doubt many of us really expect Tesla to deliver even the first 400,000 by 2019 and that's OK. Good for Tesla to set the goal but as the article points out, I don't want Tesla to be trapped by the goal and give up on quality.

The basis of the article was Musk's game plan to get to a 200+ mile EV for $30K and the Bolt is the first EV to do make it to market (this year) that meets that strategic goal.

jordanrichard | 07. lokakuu 2016

EaglesPDX, please post a picture of the window sticker for a Bolt that says $30K, go ahead, I'll wait........

EaglesPDX | 07. lokakuu 2016

@jordanricahrd "EaglesPDX, please post a picture of the window sticker for a Bolt that says $30K"

The $30K sales point of Musk's that the article quoted was based on the base car price $38K for the Bolt and $35K for the Tesla and deducting the $7,500 tax credit. Tesla does this in the current pricing configurator when showing the cash price.

CraigW | 09. lokakuu 2016

Aaaaaaaah! Trolls!

Meanwhile I have my money down for a Model 3 for my wife and for each of my children.

I wish the best for GM and their Bolt, but with a corporate limit of 30,000 vehicles/year on their initial rollout, I suspect their game is compliance, not change. If I am right, then all the FUD in the world won't cover up the fact that the Model 3 will answer a public need, while the Bolt will only answer a corporate need.

SamO | 09. lokakuu 2016

If the Bolt wasn't electric, would it be worth $40,000?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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EaglesPDX | 09. lokakuu 2016

CraigW "I wish the best for GM and their Bolt, but with a corporate limit of 30,000 vehicles/year on their initial rollout"

More than Tesla on its intitial rollout, but remember GM is also producing Volts and has sold 100,000 of them total and will sell 20,000 of them this year, 25,000 next year and 30,000 bolts puts GM at 50,000 plus per year plug ins.

EaglesPDX | 09. lokakuu 2016

@CraigW "Aaaaaaaah! Trolls!"

The childish graphics pretty much define it, even on a Tesla forum.

gregcropper | 09. lokakuu 2016

Eagles, nobody cares what GM does. This is a Tesla forum, not a GM forum. If you're so in love with GM then go buy a stupid Bolt and leave us alone. GM is crap and I kind of hope they go bankrupt again.

EaglesPDX | 09. lokakuu 2016

@gregcropper "Eagles, nobody cares what GM does. "

Except the small group of Teslerati on this forum who are positively freaked out about the Bolt. Starting threads like "Counteracting the Bolt". They seem to think the Bolt is going to upend Tesla.

Red Sage ca us | 09. lokakuu 2016

CraigW wrote, "...the Model 3 will answer a public need, while the Bolt will only answer a corporate need."

+42! That was put extremely well. Thank you.

SamO: +21! Perhaps another question would be, "If the Model ☰ were not coming to market (SOON), would the BOLT be worth as much as an i3?"

gregcropper: +21! About the only reason I would support GM going bankrupt again is that it would allow them to escape their contracts with UAW and 'independent franchised dealerships' under reorganization so they could move in a better direction.

I'm Red Sage, and I approve this message.

gregcropper | 09. lokakuu 2016

Once again Red Sage makes sense of it all. I don't really care what happens to GM. I only said that to irritate Eagles, but then I realized that I don't care what s/he thinks either.

EaglesPDX | 09. lokakuu 2016

@gregcropper " I don't really care what happens to GM. I only said that to irritate Eagles, but then I realized that I don't care what s/he thinks either."

And demonstrate you do and you do...too funny. The ones irritated by the GM Bolt are the same one's irritated by the BMW300e a few weeks ago and likely irritated by any non-Tesla EV. I guess they do feel the Bolt is a threat to Tesla orders despite claiming otherwise.

brando | 09. lokakuu 2016

OK, Tesla not the only one with Multi-types of cars "on the same assembly line".

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/technology/how-did-gm-create-teslas-dr...

At the company’s Orion Assembly plant outside of Detroit, I saw Bolts on the same line as gas-powered Chevy Sonics and Buick Veranos. Robots and workers seamlessly shifted between the Bolt and more traditional cars as if nothing was different.

Can Tesla be more productive? Musk thinks he can and is trying on GigaFactory putting more effort into designing the factory. And with regards to Model ≡ he is trying for at least a 5x increase in speed of assembly and thinks over time it could be a 20x improvement. Can he pull off this next miracle? All us fan-persons say yes. All the rest of the auto industry says no, as usual.

On another topic Pickup Trucks
========================
I see two groups. The working class and let us call it the life style class.
(Surely the Sage knows the proper terms used by auto marketers)
Red Sage has mentioned the working class needs for super truck.
The life style class only puts into the truck what they can lift. (not very heavy)

So JefferyR, I see another Tesla Advantage. Tesla Motors could run 3 models per mfg. line.
S/X/truck
≡/Y/truck
Gives Tesla Motors a lot of flexibility. Can the paint shop handle all six body types? I suspect it can. Might we see a bare metal option? (more likely undercoat, no paint, top coat).

OK, that ends my speculations for the moment. Seems Tesla Motors has plenty of options to keep demand for it's Electric Vehicles a head of it's capacity to manufacture. And this gives more than ample opportunities for the auto competitors to follow.

Let the Electrifications Begin!

brando | 09. lokakuu 2016

Why didn't my quote work? I used closing tag quote /quote.
Some times URL work sometimes quote works, you just never know when.

EaglesPDX | 09. lokakuu 2016

brando "Seems Tesla Motors has plenty of options to keep demand for it's Electric Vehicles a head of it's capacity to manufacture."

We need 17,000,000 EV's. Tesla is never going to be the producer. We need GM, Ford, Toyota et all building EV's to replace oil powered cars. We need it to happen in 20 years so in 35 years all the vehicles on the road and not primary polluters.

It's nice to be a Tesla fan but Tesla's mission is to get GM, Ford, Toyota et al to produce the EV's or what is necessary will not happen.

We need the Bolt to sell out as much as we need Tesla to sell out.

Badbot | 09. lokakuu 2016

My wish is to see what the press print in a year or so if tesla can deliver more M3's {say 50,000} than Chevy can produce Bolts (30,000).
Much less sell while M3's are the competition.

SamO | 10. lokakuu 2016

Tell GM:

1. Build a GOOD car for the $ (not a subcompact for $40,000)
2. Build FAST charging.

Then, GM will sell every EV they can make, just like Tesla. Until then, GM is just pretending to be an EV automaker.

jordanrichard | 10. lokakuu 2016

EaglesPDX, you are correct, we need more EVs and Tesla alone will not be able to be the only company to produce them. However, only Tesla is ensuring that everything is covered for the EV experience. They are ensuring that there will be places for one to charge their car on a long road trip. Yes, we know, Chargepoint is building their network, but GM or any other company has no control over that. Which means the other companies are following their usual mantra of, "....that's not our problem" Which means they don't want to ensure that their respective EVs can/will replace a person/family's ICE car.

SamO | 10. lokakuu 2016

Imagine every single electric car ever made has access to Supercharging through a magical adapter.

What electric car would you "desire"? What price would you "expect to pay" given the innate cost of cars in their class?

Leaf would be a $15,000 car.

Bolt would be a $20,000 car.

Model S/X are $80,000 cars.

Model 3 will be a $40,000 car.

Model Y will be a $50,000 car.

I am quoting Electrek

Chevy needs to do 2 things: Engineers should now build the possibility of upgrading to 150kW SAE charging standard which would align with Tesla’s current charging speeds and more importantly be in line with what consumers expect. Chevy/GM should also go about building its own nationwide network of 150kW+ fast chargers because relying on the current 3rd parties is a disaster waiting to happen. They could start at their 3,000 dealerships.
If the Chevy Bolt is actually a success, which I hope it is, it bring up all EV ships so to speak. There will be more charging options for everyone. But Bolt users will clamor for the type of charging infrastructure that is as good as gasoline. At this point, the Bolt, for all of its successes, falls short.

Tesla went Coast to Coast in February 2014. I completed that same trip in March 2014 in an S60. Round trip in 9 days.

Boos for GM for not even having a path toward. Shame on them for pretending their cars are able to do anything close to that. I tried to calculate the same Coast to Coast drive using only public charging and RV parking for the Bolt and MINIMUM one way it would take 9 days.

Here's a picture of EVERY Chargepoint/Blink/eVgo/SemaCharge compatible with the Bolt. Meaning 90 miles in 30 minutes. Pretty shabby.

SamO | 10. lokakuu 2016

Here is Tesla Superchargers only

gregcropper | 10. lokakuu 2016

I'm glad to see these tentative first steps into electrification by GM, Volkswagen, Porsche, Mercedes, et al. But until automakers are willing to set aside their ICE programs and fully pursue electrification, their efforts will be half-a$$ed at best.

EaglesPDX | 10. lokakuu 2016

SamO " But Bolt users will clamor for the type of charging infrastructure that is as good as gasoline."

No. They won't. No EV owner will as 95% of EV charging is done at the home. It's the paradigm shift of the EV.

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