The anti-Tesla Folks are out in force now scrambling to have one last chance to stop Elon from overtaking them and succeeding in the world.
"Tesla stock may be soaring, but Elon Musk's business model is doomed, says former GM Vice Chairman Lutz
Tesla's lack of pricing power is going to lead to its demise, Bob Lutz says.
"Elon Musk is the greatest salesman in the world," Lutz acknowledges.
But Lutz claims real numbers don't lie.
Lutz is from the old wholesale manufacturer's school.
How are Pepsi and United better off than Tesla's stock right now?
I have no idea the type of personality of Elon Musk. Is he egotistical, narcissistic, vindictive, vengeful....? But I had steam coming out of my ears watching that video of Bob Lutz. His body language spoke volumes of his despise and jealousy for what Musk has accomplished. I can only hope that when Musk sees these types of attacks, it makes his resolve to prove them wrong even stronger. I want to see him unleash both barrels on those S.O.B's. It's escalating to a level of conspiracy watching the FUD from Detroit and big oil trying to take down Tesla. The sooner they man up and admit the inevitable that EV's are the future as is renewable energy, the better chance they have of survival. Keeping their head in the sand or covering their ears and repeating "I can't hear you" only hastens their demise. And it won't come soon enough.
When you're successful you become a target of criticizm from those are not as successful, what's Bob Lutz done lately?
It really gets tiring hearing the same old arguments. Here we go again...
1. If Tesla loses money on every Model S, how can they make money on Model 3?
Tesla sells every Model S at an enviable profit, around 26%.
2. Tesla is burning cash like crazy, they have capital raises all the time.
Tesla is growing. They are not burning cash, they are converting cash assets into fixed assets.
3. Competition is coming!!!!
Bring it on. If they make compelling EVs, then EV wins. If they don't, Tesla wins. Either way, Tesla accomplishes its mission. A rising tide floats all boats.
There was a time too when I mistakenly thought that once the Germans or Far East car companies got serious about EV's, Tesla's reign of supremacy would crumble. How could they not design, develop, build a superior EV with all their resources in talent and money? But watching the bolt die on the vine confirms my suspicion that having a superior car don't mean s**t unless it does what people need it to do. Until they get the quantity, speed, dependability, convenience of the long distance travel network in place, it won't matter. Having 250 mile range is irrelevant when you venture more than 100 miles from home. And if you don't venture away from home, chances are you're charging to full every night anyway.
I think Tesla will continue to run the table against the competition for the next few years. The X and S together sold more last month than all other BEV's combined. They are being lapped.
"what's Bob Lutz done lately?"
He famously declared he would convert a Tesla Model S into ICE by shoehorning the LS8 motor and drivetrain from a Corvette.
lutz (n) A cross between a loser and a putz.
Well, his last name says it all. He's a LUTZ ;-)
Keeping in mind that he is an old fart connected with a couple of the ICE makers. Of course he finds an excuse to cut down Tesla.
I'm still a little surprised that Bob continues to talk negatively of Elon and Tesla.
With all his years in the automotive business I would think Bob would recognize the incredible accomplishments that Elon and Tesla have accomplished so far. Building a car is hard enough, building an entire new propulsion system to replace the "Standard" of 100 years, now that is simply incredible. With all the impediments that have been either in his way, or even placed in his way, Elon should be congratulated, perhaps even encouraged but not critized for doing what seemed like the impossible.
Could you imagine the "good" that Bob could do if he was public in affirmation of the necessity to adopt EV's.
The host of that news interview (Melissa Lee) stood up for Tesla and cornered Bob with some good questions (3:50 in the clip). At that moment I believe Bob coward back to his basic premise of costs and doomed. What a fraud!
Thank you, Melissa! You go girl!
Perhaps I just haven't see any, but never is there such masked words of desperation from any of the foreign OEMs..... All the "Tesla will fail because...." BS comes from Lutz, GM, U.S. dealers, Wall St., U.S. automotive press etc. The Germans for example, don't criticize Tesla, they just talk about what they are planning on for their own EVs.
This just falls in line with what we all know, the U.S. auto industry and associate shills, have their heads up their..............
One more thing. Take the recent "Demon" car that Chrysler announced. Their only concern is about how bad they look by having a 4 door sedan EV, kick the crap out of their ultimate muscle car. So instead of building a comparable EV, they do the typical "Joe Budwiser 6-pack" thing and just jam a bigger motor into their POS, shave off some weight, put barely road legal slicks on the car which were specially developed for the car and basically stick their tongue out at Tesla.
Imagine how far ahead GM would be with EVs if they BUILT on the success of their EV1 program rather than destroy it.
It wasn't me! ;-)
jordanrichard and alnrench2, totally agree! These are the deathly convolutions of the dying Big Auto Companies.
Sadly, US business press all about stock prices. Nothing matters, to them, but share holder value. Even upper management gets over paid millions based on stock values. Seems to me anything in the press is about stock manipulations. From this view point, all makes sense. [We are not talking long term, as volatility only adds to the profitable manipulations. Shorts must be making money, or we won't have short sellers would we.]
Of course, Tesla having a market cap exceeding GM is insane, except in the US economy of the stock market.
GM will max profits until next down turn, and ask Uncle Sam to bail them out again. Why not? Then ask for more money to develop electric manufacturing and/or jobs for US workers - I mean robots. And of course the bankers will get in on the deal. They can't lose any money either. Your savings, retirement , pensions, not so much.
Can we count all of Bob's failures since leaving GM? (great interview to watch, wasn't?)
Did he leave before GM went broke?
Via Motors hybrid trucks?
Destino - the Karma with a V8?
VLF ? Karma conversions?
VLF Force 1?
Of course Bob can't stand Musk. Of course Bob is short Tesla stock. With automated trading how much fluctuation in stock prices do you need to make money?
Insight to Lutz's attitude toward Musk.
Wikipedia on Bob Lutz
Lutz rejoined GM on September 1, 2001, as Vice Chairman of Product Development. On November 13, 2001, he was named Chairman of GM North America and served in that capacity until April 4, 2005, when he assumed responsibility for Global Product Development. He also served as President of GM Europe on an interim basis from March to June 2004. On April 1, 2009, Lutz was named Vice Chairman/Senior Advisor providing strategic input into GM's Global Design and Key Product initiatives, a position he held until retirement at the end of 2009. He agreed to join the new GM at his current position. On July 23, 2009, he was appointed Vice Chairman, Marketing and Communications, and on December 4, 2009, named Vice Chairman, Special Advisor Design and Global Product Development. On May 1, 2010, Lutz retired from GM; but was retained again by GM in September 2011.
Every single title he held speaks of Product Development, Global Design and so forth. You tell me what products has GM developed since 2001?
The guy brought GM to bankruptcy for the lack of good products, than took massive 11 billion government bailout against promise to create electric cars and then created first generation Volt.
And now he has the nerve to speak of government subsidies for Tesla. And how about Tesla products for starter Lutz? You've been Vice Chairman for GM-s Global Design and Key Product initiatives, you can say a word or two about that.
Didn't a bunch of people die on his watch as well due to negligence and coverup?
Sorry KP. I remember reading here one of our members expected Lutz to come out swingin' when TSLA's market cap reached that of GM's. Maybe it was SamO? Whoever it was, called it right!
LOL no prob. I'm not that clever. ;)
I never made any claims about share price. I think Tesla is, and has been a good value. Maybe ahead of itself but, for a long-term investor, now the parts all add up to a serious contender for next-gen, autonomous, solar powered, battery backed, cars, homes, loops, satellites, rockets powered (some LOX required) future.
I do think Tesla has a good chance to be the most valuable company, in the modern era. 1 Trillion market cap Ron Barron and Elon Musk have targeted, is not farfetched.
Lutz is right. Numbers don't lie. But he does by giving fake numbers. It's not hard to read a 10-K and anybody in his position should know how to do that to find out what the gross margin per vehicle comes out to. He should also be able to figure out that Tesla is way past expenses needed to develop or ramp up to build the Model S, and that expenses are elsewhere, so acting as if 100% of expenses relate to the Model S and the company is therefore losing money on every car is absurd.
If what Lutz says is true, he should contact the SEC and have them lock up Elon Musk for securities fraud. Then again, anybody with common sense would know that if the financials had been fraudulent, that would have happened long ago.
"Elon Musk is the greatest salesman in the world," Lutz acknowledges.
Oh, yeah! I almost forgot all those great TV ads by Elon. And the radio ads! And did you see the week end newspaper ads? Almost forgot all the great Magazine ads, particularly the Auto Mags. I'm quiet the dreamer, no?
In fairness, Lutz never held a job for more than a year at GM, no wonder he never accomplished anything.
[Thanks A|1 for wikipedia link] But did he get rich on his stock option?
As Saturn was given the EV-1 to sell (ok, they would only lease them so they could recall them and crush them, see "Who killed the Electric Car") we should review how GM handled Saturn - where was Bob?https://www.forbes. com/2010/03/08/saturn-gm-innovation-leadership-managing-failure.html
And then of course a more direct comparison with Elon and Model S to Lutz and Volt.http://fortune. com/2015/05/12/car-wars-why-gms-volt-slogs-while-teslas-model-s-soars/
As Haggy point out, stock manipulators such as Lutz can't even read business financials, they don't need to.
Lutz was a terrible CEO yet CNBC continues to quote him. Idiots
Shows why nobody trusts the "news" or "mainstream media" other than to discover the current propaganda .
Lutz is still waiting for Tesla to crater. He probably needs to take better care of himself. Could be a real long wait.👴
Lutz's dying words will be "Tesla will be bankrupt in a few quarters . . ."
He thought the same of Toyota in 2003 when he lambasted hybrids.
Thanks to all posters on this thread.
It was great fun to re-read.
You all seem remarkably sane, or else you're all as insane as me.
note: I was wrong about Lutz's job assignments being only a year or less. See wikipedia. sorry.
There is another Lutz thread where I lambasted the old fraud and some felt I was insufficciently respectful of his new venture with H. Fisker.
SamO belated thanks on lambast of Lutz - If Lutz can't get his hybrids or Fisker projects to make profits, in spite of his connections/experience, even he might realize something wrong with his thinking. Well, maybe not.
Guys like Lutz, sadly, helped remove mfg from US along with stock market banksters. More profits/money from stocks than actually making something. US number one in financial fraud - or maybe London - number one in death destruction and drone killings. Number one in number of wars too.
btucker is a FUDBOT