Forums

Study: Americans interested in EVs but still have range anxiety

Study: Americans interested in EVs but still have range anxiety

http://www.hybridcars.com/study-american-interest-in-evs-is-high-but-not...

This part caught my eye:

"The interest in EVs isn’t turning into sales. According to the AAA, that’s because of range anxiety, even though the average American commute is 31 miles/46 minutes – which would be within the range of most EVs on the market. Still, 69 percent of respondents were concerned about the number of charging stations, and 68 percent expressed concern about running out of charge before they reached the end of their drive.

Range anxiety stems from seeing gas stations, not charging stations, on every corner,” Tidwell said. “While electric vehicles may not yet fit every lifestyle, the number of charging stations has quadrupled over the last five years and battery ranges support average commutes."

I think the last part is the key. Range anxiety seems to be a psychological problem where EVs actually do have enougb range but people don't believe it because they don't see charging stations all over the place like they see with gas stations. This supports my idea that charging stations need better signage to help people see them. Gas stations have the tall Marathon or BP sign that everyone knows means a gas station is near. Tesla does well in this regard with the supercharger stalls that are clear what they are. But most non-Tesla charging stations I have seen are just boxes on a wall with a cord attached. It is definitely not obvious what they are. I don't blame people for not knowing where charging stations are. Whereas gas stations are obvious what they are. I am convinced that most people don't realize how many charging stations are actually close enough because they are hard to find if you are not already an EV owner with an app telling you where the charging stations are.

I will say this: I think this bodes well for Tesla. With 200+ miles range and the supercharger network that is easy to find, it is clear why Tesla owners have less range anxiety.

KP in NPT | 24. huhtikuu 2017

I agree that much of range anxiety is psychological (I thought the same thing before I actually owned a BEV) and the fact that there is not yet a non-testa national charging network doesn't help. VWs upcoming network will hopefully start to change that.

Thus far, besides Tesla, only the Bolt has the range to deal with true range anxiety - but its reliance on 3rd party networks and being hobbled by slow charging makes it essentially a local car. While that works for the majority of people's everyday driving, people don't make such a large purchase on that alone. They want the freedom to be able to take their car on road trips even if they do it only occasionally. And don't want the inconvenience of long charge times or unreliable charging stations.

But those who have never owned a BEV likely don't even know that. It's not helping that GM has thus far only released the bolt in a few ZEV states and hasn't done anything in the way of BEV education in their advertising.

I also think that as 200+ mile BEVs become more common, people will gradually see that range anxiety isn't the issue they think it is. They'll know someone with a BEV, they'll start to see them more and will start to research. My understanding is part of the VW settlement includes 80M in nationwide advertising - we'll see where that goes. And the Model 3 hitting the streets will have an impact, I believe.

sosmerc | 24. huhtikuu 2017

I agree that the when the Model 3 starts hitting the streets in significant numbers there will be a greater positive attitude towards BEVs.

Nexxus | 24. huhtikuu 2017

The range anxiety also stems from those people not seeing their own home as a filling station and they can leave the next day, and every day, with a full tank of electrons.

reed_lewis | 24. huhtikuu 2017

I was at a Tesla store a while ago, and the Tesla salesperson had a guy in a few months before. He was asking how far the car drove on a charge, and was told the numbers. The potential customer claimed he 'always' drove over 500 miles without stopping. When he was told that he particular car could only go 350 miles on a fill up, he did not believe it.

In other words... People drive less than they think that they do.

SamO | 24. huhtikuu 2017

Tesla has a plan:

We started 2017 with over 5,000 Superchargers globally and by the end of this year, Tesla will double that number to total more than 10,000 Superchargers and 15,000 Destination Charging connectors around the world. In North America, we’ll increase the number of Superchargers by 150 percent, and in California alone we’ll add more than 1,000 Superchargers. We’re moving full speed on site selection and many sites will soon enter construction to open in advance of the summer travel season.

Toward that goal, Tesla will build larger sites along our busiest travel routes that will accommodate several dozen Teslas Supercharging simultaneously. In addition, many sites will be built further off the highway to allow local Tesla drivers to charge quickly when needed, with the goal of making charging ubiquitous in urban centers.

Rocky_H | 24. huhtikuu 2017

@SamO, "Tesla has a plan:"

Yeah, they have had plans in the past, too. *cough* I-10 *cough*

Earl and Nagin ... | 24. huhtikuu 2017

Given the pathetic range of most EVs, This finding isn't surprising. Most Tesla drivers start to get antsy when their EV range drops below 50 miles. Thats about the Leaf's total full range.

Haggy | 24. huhtikuu 2017

Once EVs are on the road a lot more, people with misconceptions will have neighbors and coworkers without them. They will realize it's EV owners whose idea of range anxiety is having an ICE that might be far from full on any given day. There's a reason that even with gas stations so readily available, those things run out of gas all the time.

KP in NPT | 24. huhtikuu 2017

+1 Haggy.

And with Tesla's new plans for the supercharger network, I expect things to start to change much more quickly than it would have otherwise. It will compel other automakers - or 3rd party networks - to up the game. This is going to get good. :)

SO | 24. huhtikuu 2017

I will be glad when there are a couple super chargers in the Michigan UP.

mark.willing | 25. huhtikuu 2017

SO_S90D,...I will be glad when there are about 100X as many charging stations (Tesla, and others) in Michigan,...and elsewhere.

I agree there is something to be said for range anxiety. I think many of us have taken road trips, pass an exit that has a gas station in hopes of finding another one 20-30 minutes down the road. Currently, the decision to stop at a charging station requires some planning. We have one in Grand Rapids, MI,...easy on and off the highway,...but unless one is planning on eating at a local restaurant (a few blocks walk down the road) or do some shopping at the Meijer (one stop shop superstore), it's not convenient at all. Keep in mind, most US states have a few large cities, and vast areas of rural countryside. I probably wouldn't be able to travel to/from my parent's place in the country,...even though they live 160 miles away, because there are not charging stations along the route, and I am not going to ask to use their electricity to charge my car, and even if there were a charging station,...I am not going to add an hour or more to my trip so that I could recharge. The bottom line is that we need charging stations with almost the same density as gas stations,...everywhere,...and that will be a long, daunting challenge.

The other worthy challenge is to have these roadside charging stations powered by some sort of renewable energy (solar, wind, etc.) and with enough battery storage for overnight charging. The concern about pulling electricity from a coal or gas-powered plant is a concern, especially on a large scale.

Another worthy challenge is to greatly expand rooftop solar (residential and commercial) to assist in fueling our vehicles.

As much as we would like to see nothing but EVs on the road tomorrow,...it will be a long time to get the infrastructure in place. Keep pushing forward,...we'll get there, but it won't be an easy.

EVRider | 25. huhtikuu 2017

Range anxiety will be a legitimate concern until most EVs have 200+ mile range. Most people can get by with a shorter-range EV if they own another longer-range vehicle, but it would be hard to own a shorter-range EV as your only vehicle. Occasionally you'll need to go beyond the vehicle's range (aside from road trips) when stopping to charge or renting an alternate vehicle are not practical.

vp09 | 25. huhtikuu 2017

>>> SO_S90D | April 24, 2017 I will be glad when there are a couple super chargers in the Michigan UP.

In Marquette? On the shores of Lake Superior? With that clear water? Is it still as clear as it was when I was there in 1985?

Red Sage ca us | 25. huhtikuu 2017

Most people just automatically fill up their ICE when the needle falls a hair below 1/4 tank remaining. They have no idea of their actual range. And it wasn't until the PRIUS came along that many noticed how much less often they had to go to the gas station.

mark.willing | 26. huhtikuu 2017

@vp09,...Are you from Michigan,...or just a visitor? The water is actually more clear than it was in 1985,...because of the zebra mussel invasion. They are cleansing the water of all the microorganisms and microfauna that are key to supporting a healthy lake system. However, the Great Lakes and surrounding areas and parks are as beautiful as ever,...even more so. Many communities are building nice boardwalk systems for tourists, the parks are gorgeous, beaches are clean,...much better than they were in the 1980s. However, we still have the threat of oil pipeline breaks into our rivers and lakes,...some big ones in the past decade,...and an old, deteriorating one under the Mackinac bridge is very concerning to all of us. If that one goes,...it will destroy everything.

SO | 26. huhtikuu 2017

Mark - it is certainly crazy why they don't shut down the pipeline under the mackinac bridge. Nothing like putting toxic materials right by the large freshwater lakes. It just boggles the mind how humans can be that greedy and willing to risk so much for the sake of some dollars.

Different topic:

I think I read where you are near Grand Rapids. Me too.

I am going to Lansing tomorrow with my state rep (Tommy Brann) in my Tesla and I am going to have him ride (and drive if he wants). I had sent him a message about how unfair it is that Michigan happily accepted my 7,000 sales tax but then denies Tesla the ability to sell directly here nor open a service center. He agrees. I also sent the message to all the other representatives in Michigan (100+) and I heard back from 11. Maybe we can help turn the tide.

If you haven't done so already, contact your district rep and let them know how you feel. It may help!

rgrant | 26. huhtikuu 2017

A friend here recently went back from a Leaf to ICE because of range anxiety. His issues were compounded by the fact that he didn't have a 240v charging option. 120v doesn't add a lot overnight so I think he was always on a low charge. He had too many trips where he fretted over his range for comfort.

brando | 26. huhtikuu 2017

I still think PRICE/COST is the number one problem.
SOME very high mileage drivers can benefit from operating costs (or those willing to keep/care for decades).
Range is the third concern (main concern only for those seriously looking to buy).

I suspect Tesla can keep demand with decreasing price or introduction of lower cost vehicles.
When ICE = BEV in purchase costs, of course operating costs will win out (with few exceptions, very few).
And the limiting function will be batteries, right?

Bennettb619 | 26. huhtikuu 2017

I looked up the stations between my house in central nj and my son's in western NC
and there were 2 spots that were more than 300 miles between super chargers. What does one do? Bobbi

vp09 | 26. huhtikuu 2017

Hi Mark. I can't post anything. The spam filter blocks me from posting anything.

vp09 | 26. huhtikuu 2017

Except that comment about the spam filter. I tried to post that I had a job interview at NMU Marquette summer 1986.

vp09 | 26. huhtikuu 2017

Okay so that worked. Also that I'd not been to Michigan before, or since, and I'd rather visit there again than most of the places other people talk about traveling to. I've already checked out some A I r b n bs in Marquette.

I'll be back there soon!

vp09 | 26. huhtikuu 2017

Northern Michigan Univ.

vp09 | 26. huhtikuu 2017

Can post "Univ" but not "U n I v e r s I t y"

mark.willing | 27. huhtikuu 2017

@vp09,..."I think I read where you are near Grand Rapids. Me too.

I am going to Lansing tomorrow with my state rep (Tommy Brann) in my Tesla and I am going to have him ride (and drive if he wants). I had sent him a message about how unfair it is that Michigan happily accepted my 7,000 sales tax but then denies Tesla the ability to sell directly here nor open a service center. He agrees. I also sent the message to all the other representatives in Michigan (100+) and I heard back from 11. Maybe we can help turn the tide.

If you haven't done so already, contact your district rep and let them know how you feel. It may help!"

That sounds great. Tommy Brann seems like a stand-up guy,...it's been many years since we've met. I think everyone in the Grand Rapids area has been to his restaurants at least once. WGRD's radio shows with Free Beer n' Hot Wings from Brann's,...they would always seem to set him up for some sort of comic relief.

A test drive. Wouldn't that be something if you could impress him enough to purchase a new Model S. He speaks with someone, who speaks with another,...sounds like a great catalyst. Put in a word for rooftop solar (residential and commercial).

I'm the only one in the Byron Center area with solar panels,...and looking forward to my Powerwall 2 installation within the next month. We need a lot more incentives for home and business owners to do solar w/battery storage.

SO | 27. huhtikuu 2017

Mark - "I'm the only one in the Byron Center area with solar panels,"

Awesome! I would like to build a new house in the next couple years with the Tesla solar roof.

I am at the capital now. Meeting different reps. Tommy and Drew from Byron Center road with me. I think I might have a sale. He asked that I take his wife for a ride in the car. :-)

hoffmannjames | 27. huhtikuu 2017

I look forward to the day when all cars on the road are EVs and charging stations are as common as gas stations are today.

finman100 | 27. huhtikuu 2017

soon

ken.hixson | 27. huhtikuu 2017

Most of us on the forum I suspect have homes where we can install chargers. Many people live in apartments and other dwellings that do not have "rights' to install charging so for them it can be a real issue that completely prevents them from considering BEVs.

No doubt the infratructure will grow and the proximity to charging will increase so that range becomes only a minor issue. For me the time charging on distance trips is the problem. I haven't found the Tesla message of 30 minute charging to be that real. I am just hoping that by the time they deploy the next gen Supercharger my Model S will be able to use it. Some electrical experts on this forum believe our currently purchased batteries cannot charge much faster than the current Supercharges. I hope we are surprised!

SamO | 27. huhtikuu 2017

Most = 51% .

Remnant | 27. huhtikuu 2017

@ken.hixson (April 27, 2017)

<< Most of us on the forum I suspect have homes where we can install chargers. >>

An interesting stop-gap or future design would be a Dual-Chemistry Hybrid power train, in which a Metal-Air Power Generator extends the range by about 1,000 miles, by recharging the Li-Ion Battery on the go. Tesla has itself a Metal-Air Battery patent on record.

Check:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/01/20150109-fuji.html and
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108951_tesla-granted-patent-on-meta...

vp09 | 27. huhtikuu 2017

Solar panels. Just do it.

When do they pay for themselves?

They pay for themselves when you install them. They raise the capital value of your property by the full cost of their installation.

Rocky_H | 28. huhtikuu 2017

I was getting worried about you, @Remnant. You had posted a few comments _without_ mentioning that metal air battery. Glad to see you're back.