... and at $30,000 - hmmm, me skeptical!
Man, I don't even have my S yet, and I already want an E. Not a Volt, an E. Come through Elon :-)
BTW - waiting for my S is brutal! I installed the outlet a couple of days ago, but still have to wait a little over a month to get the grin! Ok. I have a bit of a grin with just the anticipation, but the full grin has yet to be delivered.. I NEED THE FULL GRIN!!
TM will share, but on 3 conditions:
The maker pays its share of the freight, ??$2K??/qualified car;
Cars must be able to take 90kW charging (so as not to clog the system with long, slow charges);
Cars must have large batteries, able to take lotsa electrons on board each hit.
@brian - has TM ever said that? I think there may be more conditions - like they have to purchase or license Tesla battery technology.
grega, what determines a car's "size", ie; sub-compact, compact, etc. is based on interior space. This designation is made by the EPA, I believe.
I own a '94 Mercedes E320 Coupe, which is 15 feet long, weighs 3500 lbs., yet per the original window sticker it is a "sub compact". At least based on the criteria they used in 1994.
My concern with GM is how frustrating it must be to be an engineer there that wants (is trying) to produce a viable electric car. The current mind set makes it improbable. They need to wipe the slate clean - eliminate all their engineers and hire new ones, with an oversight committee that can't be controlled by the 'old school' upper directors.
I demonstrated to my co-workers how GM is approaching trying to build a viable electric car. Took of my shoe, held it up and said 'We need to make this a glove'. It just doesn't work.
Unfortunately, GM is not alone - I mean look at BMW, for gosh sakes. It's amazing what a large amount of publicity and advertising will do for a stupid idea. Expected better from them.
But, bottom line...
Tesla should have been a wake up call. (Elon's plan)
Other mfgs should step up to the task - do it right - hopefully do it better. This is what we all need.
Yes, and "carry its share of the freight" meant paying TM the $2k or so to contribute to the network.
I think it would probably be cheaper for other manufacturers to build out their own infrastructure. Let's look at the Nissan Leaf. They sold how many cars in the US in 2013, somewhere around 23,000? Multiply that by $2,000 (supercharging cost per car) and you get $46M. Divide that by $200,000 (assumed average cost of a supercharger) and you get back 230 locations. In order for this to make sense to other manufacturers, I believe the buy-in would have to be significantly lower.
@amped - I think the 20-year cost of a supercharger is more than $200,000 - installation, rent (if any), maintenance, electricity, monitoring, etc.
"Even if a competitor built a car with the same range, performance and styling as the Model S (and soon the MX), you would likely still buy the Tesla due to the farsighted build-out of the SC network."
This is the killer app for Tesla. Even if the competition were to design something just as good as the Model S / Model X / Model E, without a long range road trip solution those other cars will be inferior to the current Tesla models.
I don't think CHAdeMO will go nationwide. There won't be government funding for a nationwide rollout likely because Tesla proved that private companies will do it without help.
The car companies will have to do it themselves.
Maybe all of the CHAdeMO supporters will put together a joint venture to copy the Supercharger network. Somehow I doubt it though. Deep down in their DNA, none of them really want this to be successful except for Nissan.
No problem for the car companies. Just put a supercharger at each dealer - done in 6 months. How many thousands of GM dealerships are there in the US??
Then take the burger king strategy - work on putting a supercharger wherever there is a Tesla supercharger. 300 locations at $200,000 each - $60M? That is less than their coffee budget.
Perhaps the other manufacturers get together and extend the CHAdeMO standard to be capable of 200kW, and they all put in "small" 100kW chargers at all their dealerships, and 200kW superchargers alongside Tesla superchargers?
Then when they appoach NJ DOT or MA DOT about putting them in turnpike rest areas, they can say it is an open standard, and can be used by any EV manufacturer - they may be able to get travel locations Tesla has not been able to secure.
That is a lot of "ifs", but the point is we should not delude ourselves into thinking the Tesla supercharger network is a barrier to entry or much of a competitive advantage. Best thing we have going is the giants are still asleep, and they'll be groggy for a while when they finally wake up.
@tes-s - do they have a concept or still debating? Will they be fast enough?
Look at these "mobile" supercharger in the images below...
- please notice the holes for a forklift
- pre-fabricated in the factory
- a 200 kVA pole mounted distribution transformer ( common )
- pour a foundation with one conduit ahead of time
- one flatbed truck and a small crew could energize the 900 miles from San Francisco to Seattle along highway 1 in two days with 2 stall superchargers.
- how much does a unit cost? $30k ?
- future... add a small battery to the package and you don't need a 200 kVA feed...
I think we haven't seen the real high locations roll out yet...
Great pics, thanks for sharing.
The pictures are from TMChttp://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/25085-Maryland-Supercharge...
I am just blown away... a ChaDemo unit cost about $30k and now I can see that Tesla has a supercharging unit for about the same price and super quick installations.
And it is not limited to 2 stall units... for example a 50 stall extension installation on a field next to Harris Ranch could be done in a matter of days - modular pre-fabricated in the factory. Mind blowing possibilities...
This is all true, but many underestimate the fact that so far, Tesla has also had luck, with using tech which was around but deliberately shunned by big auto. Now that they used it effectively and stole all the thunder in obscenely
short time, others will pool their resources in similar fashion also probably. The same advantage Tesla had (also in learning from what others did, tried,etc..) is now in hands of competitors. They now know what works, is possible, etc.. and have much more resources.
Now that it is clear that 120kw chargers can be "cheap", how to logistically place them, do paperwork, ... it is relatively easy for the likes of Ford to strike deals with store chains, restaurant franchises,..
They trow a marketing billion in it and can do it in a year. Coming to a party late, also has advantages. Many helped Tesla but some of those are
now in hands of Tesla's competition.
keep in mind that TM WANTS the "giants" to wake up. Its goal is to popularize EVs, not dominate the market. Any mfr that out-does TM will have to have one hell of a product and infrastructure. Job done, focus on SpaceX, etc.
"Its goal is to popularize EVs, not dominate the market. Any mfr that out-does TM will have to have one hell of a product and infrastructure. Job done, focus on SpaceX, etc."
Oh, okay! So Tesla's real strategy is to use the 'naive' luxury car
buyer to help evolve the EV market. From this we assume that Elon is
the ideal environmentalist, i.e. with little motivation for profit,
a true non-capitalist.
@loren, no reason it can't be both a company for profit, and a leader in the EV revolution.
@loren - someone spending $100k on a car can not claim to be "naive".
What traditional car companies torture governments with for decades is the claim they can not make EVs for profit. That is one of Teslas most important objective to build and sell EVs for profit - the higher the margin the better... show the bacon and the rats will appear from their holes.
Profit is what happens when you create a product or service that a customer is willing and wants to pay for.
Profit is the gold standard for measuring performance.
lorenfb, do you own a MS or have one reserved? Now, I will grant you that I have been lurking on these forums for a couple of months and only placed my order last night. With that said, I never commented about aspects of the MS that I had no experience with. You ranting about the ills of Tesla, without owning one, is rude. As they say, "you don't a have a dog in the show", so you can't fault the MS or Tesla. It's really the manner in which you do it and in multiple posts.
If the car and company bother you so much, then why are you here?
If you do own a Tesla, then sell the damn thing and get this electric monkey off your back.
@kleist - probably still debating; their 200 mile affordable is probably no closer to a design than Tesla's.
I saw that portable supercharger!! Great idea - I think you suggested it a while back. Would be nice to add about 100kW of battery capacity, and then plug it into a NEMA 14-50.
@brian - understood. Nobody should be happier than Elon if GM gets a 200 miler out there with a supercharger network before the Model E. He may even decide to move on to the next project, and have Tesla stick to the MS and MX, or perhaps just sell to one of the biggies. Mission accomplished!
@lorenfb - no profit motive, at least not anymore. It was touch and go for a while, but all go now. Money is not a concern for Elon now, if it ever was.
I drove a volt for a couple of years before getting my model s (85, tech, pano) the bolt is a good car, and actually has a feature or two I would like to see in the MS, like the ability to email directions to a destination from the computer. But the MS is a great car. I was always a little disappointed when the ice kicked in on the volt. Now no ice to kick in, and charging at home ten times faster than the volt, plus superchargers! If GM brings a volt to market that can get 200 Miles on a charge and costs $30k, I would test drive it, but I suspect I am spoiled by the model s now. :)
@papasmurf I respectfully disagree.
Gov't is investing in electric to reduce emissions, so we will continue to see the investment. The issue is whether Tesla can get some traction in the existing rest stops on Interstates, like CT. It appears that there is a combination SC/Level 2 chargers co-existing. So it is EV charging not Tesla charging.
This model would be needed in NY - specifically I-87.
For the colder climates, I really would like to see the ability to plug-in during the day - less for charging but to keep the battery packs warm. This would eliminate "charge rage". A SC is not needed for this. I just don't want to drag around the UMC for the office/mall.