85kW or 85kW Performance?

85kW or 85kW Performance?

I'm down to the FINAL decision!!!!

Do I go with the Performance or the "regular 85kW? While I would really love the added performance, is it worth the additional financed $165/month?

Does anyone know what the true 0-60 time is for the "regular" 85kW? I've seen the Performance and 60kW shown, but not the standard 85kW. I suspect the Tesla published times are understated.

Lcaudle | July 16, 2013

If you need to ask that question, go for the P. I didn't and my car has more giddy up and go than I will ever need. Think unbelievable torque at zero miles per hour and unbelievable torque at 70 miles per hour. But, if it really matters, go for the P.

blisSfullee | July 16, 2013

I went with the regular 85w. I've had my car for about a month and love it totally. I drove a P85+ today for over an hour. I could tell some difference--but in normal traffic it just didn't seem like enough of a difference. Maybe if you have a lot of open road to use more than 362hp--I don't.

HenryT2 | July 16, 2013

As far as I know, the 60 and 85 are about the same. The 85 was slightly underrated by Tesla and the 60 was WAY underrated (probably to avoid undercutting the 85 sales).

According to dragtimes. com, the S60 actually did SLIGHTLY better than the 85. I don't know if it's official or in print, it was mentioned in a video. Since you've tried the S60 and the P85, you should basically have the information you need to make your decision.

For what it's worth, I've tried the P85 and have an S60. The P85 is definitely faster. But, in real world driving, I rarely even have the opportunity to push my P60. But if you absolutely have to have the best, the P85 might be worthwhile. But unless you're in a completely unusual environment, I'm going to guess that you'll only have a few opportunities per day to floor it. At that rate, you're going to be paying approx. $1.5-8/acceleration over the course of 5 years (at $15,000 over 5 years with 7-35 opportunities per week to hit max acceleration). And that's just for the additional cost OVER the S85 for the performance OVER the S85.

NomoDinos | July 16, 2013

"you're going to be paying approx. $1.5-8/acceleration over the course of 5 years (at $15,000 over 5 years with 7-35 opportunities per week to hit max acceleration). And that's just for the additional cost OVER the S85 for the performance OVER the S85"

@HenryT2 - true... unless you're running on sunshine!

carlk | July 16, 2013

It really depends on how much you want and are willing to pay for the performance. I'd say get the P if you can afford the extra payment. P is actually a very good bargain for a car guy. It can be very expansive to go from 5s to 4s. The difference you need to pay is very reasonable. Not to mention it's hard to buy a faster car than the P unless you pay much more.

CoreyM | July 16, 2013

Another thread on the topic of understated 0-60 times referenced MotorTrend's test data:

S85: 0-60 in 5.0 sec
P85: 0-60 in 4.0 sec

Speed Racer | July 16, 2013

The 85 kwh has 20% more horse power then the 60 (302hp compared to 362hp) has more torque and is less then 4% heavier (183 lbs on a 4647 lb car ) it logically is going to be faster the the 60 kwh .. tesla underrated all their models as the 85kwh performance is down to 3.9 0-60 and 12.3 quarter see video here

the 60kwh has a video of a 5.1 second 0-60 here

cant find anywhere a video or newer stat of the s 85kwh but it seems logical that it has to be a bit quicker then the 60 kwh

teslamonkey | July 17, 2013

So if the 60kW is truly just as fast as the Non-Perfornance 80kW then is the real decision between the 60 and the 85P? If both the 60 and 85 are the same in terms of speed and even loading up the 60 with options it is still less than the 85.

cloroxbb | July 17, 2013

Range is still a deciding factor i would imagine?

teslamonkey | July 17, 2013

Range is not my biggest concern. However resale could affect the decision more

carlk | July 17, 2013

It wouldn't be an issue if you don't need the range now. You will be able to replace the battery with a higher capacity ones later and pay the difference if you need to. I think that's what Elon said about battery swap although I'm not 100% sure.

AlMc | July 17, 2013

I have a P+ and am very happy with it. If you can afford the extra $ I would go P+.

Disclaimer: The S in any configuration IS an amazing vehicle. It all comes down to your personal preferences/cost. No one knows you better than you (and maybe your mother :) )

carlk | July 17, 2013

Just want to add one more thought about this. For people who do not race their car it's more a speak softly and carry a big stick thing. The time I have chased, or been chased by, another car ever in my life can be counted with one hand. It would be a few thousand dollars to win a chase if you look at it this way. On the other hand it is comforting to know that you're carrying the biggest stick every time you're in the car. The extra cost would be much more reasonable if this is how you look at it.

HenryT2 | July 17, 2013

I'm pretty sure he didn't say that. I wish they would come right out and tell us if we'll be able to switch out smaller batteries for larger (temporary or permanent), but as yet, I haven't seen any definitive evidence that they have or will state this to be the case.

But, it kind of makes sense that they don't. By saying so now, they'd cut into the sales of the bigger battery. By waiting, they will increase their revenue potential but without hurting their current sales as they clearly state that people should buy the battery they need NOW.

HenryT2 | July 17, 2013

The "running on sunshine" factor is not relevant to my calculation. That was purely based on the difference in price between the S85 and the P85 over 5 years. Of course, there is still residual resale value, but then there is also additional cost of the 21" performance tires and "interest" so I called it a wash. Might be slightly more cost effective than that, but still fairly expensive on a per second basis.

Michael S | July 17, 2013

I had a Roadster before i traded it in for the Model S non-performance. I choose the 85kw pack with the "slower" motor and have no regrets. The Roadster was fine for dragging (0-30mph only) all the Ferrari's off the line at traffic stops on Highway 1 in Newport Beach, but otherwise I did not see the need for all that extra torque.

10 months into my Model S and I don't miss the "little bit extra" a bit......

carlk | July 17, 2013

@HenryT2 He said you can keep the battery and pay the difference if it is newer than yours. I would think they will not keep two different types of battery and give anyone a 85kWh, or whatever the highest capacity at the time, but I could be wrong.

I would think it's a plus for Tesla. People who could not afford 85kWh and not sure about 60kWh will have no reason not to buy the 60kWh for now. Also people who are holding for future higher capacity battery have one less reason not to buy now.

NomoDinos | July 17, 2013

@HenryT2 - I see, completely misread. Sorry, that's what I get for skimming.

cfOH | July 17, 2013

P+: "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up." ;-)

lnxcar | July 17, 2013

One thing regarding batteries is that they could possibly end up doing what they're doing with the 40k car. Software limit the 60 to act like 40. So nothing prevents Tesla from shoving 85k batteries into a 60 and have the software keep it at 60 in terms of behavior. Now it would be costly I guess but at least that way they can sort of keep the cars at their level. just sayin...

lnxcar | July 17, 2013

btw I have a regular S and out of curiosity I asked Tesla if they'd consider upgrading the inverter (since for the most part the other features for the P are not always interesting) and they said no. (as I'd expect but I was curious)

rd2 | July 17, 2013

I've read Motor Trend's assessment of the S85 and P85. P85 was 0-60 in 4.0s, S85 was 0-60 in 5.0s. I imagine the S60 is close behind in the low 5's, but probably not faster than the S85.

HenryT2 | July 17, 2013

If they were to software limit it, would they also charge less for the "refill?" I've got a 40. So if they only give me 1/2 the charge, would they also charge half? I think the best solution (if possible) would be to give an 85 and charge an "upgrade rental fee" in addition to the refill charge. Then a 60, or 40, could use an 85 for a fee and then return it when convenient. If they choose not to do so, they could be software limited AFTER they used up the 85kWh (not before because that wouldn't be fair to those who paid for the "full tank"). But that sounds all unnecessarily complicated so I'm hoping that they just let us use a full 85kWh battery until we return it a week or so later for just the cost of a refill (not counting on it, though).

Brian H | July 17, 2013

The swap costs about the same as 15 gallons of gas, locally. Keeping the swap battery incurs charges for the difference in capacity and expected lifetime.

teslamonkey | July 18, 2013

So does anyone know the 0-60 time for the Non-Performance 85kW other than the Tesla-published time?

ev4life | July 18, 2013

Haven't seen video of the standard S85 times but the Motor Trend Article has a self published time of 5.0 seconds for it and 4.0 seconds for the P85 Typically they do their own time trials so it's most authoritative I've seen.

hanker777 | July 18, 2013

Today my S85 was delivered. My son has had a P85 for several months
I have driven his a bit and now mine.
We did a little " testing" on the expressway today.
We were doing about 50 MPH and we both tromped it.
His P85 only gained on me about a cars length before we had to back off at 90MPH
Now from a dead standstill the P85 will get a good jump on the 85. The higher performance Inverter gives a lot more power on the low end ( 0 to 35 )
Seems like the standard 85 really kicks in once you get above 30 to 40 MPH (like a turbo is kicking in)
So your lane changing / passing is just as much fun on the standard as on the P85.
Conclusion: Unless you just want to smoke everyone off the line the standard 85 is more than sufficient to enjoy the acceleration.
The smile is stuck on my face..

George with SacEV | July 18, 2013

We are at Lake Tahoe right now on a mini road trip from our home in West Sacramento. We came up on Hiway 50 just so I could enjoy the passing lanes on the two lane section over the last 40 miles or so to the summit. We have the S85 version, and it is hard to imagine more power/speed pickup from 50 mph to warp 5.

We are happy to use that additional $10,000+ on our next house.

olanmills | July 18, 2013

Based on my experience, hanker's post is dead on. You don't notice that much difference when you're already cruising. Even in the standard 85, it is alarmingly easy to go from 50 to 80 or 90 mph.

You really notice the difference when accelerating from 0.

For this reason, I really wish Tesla would give me the option to upgrade the inverter. However, I still wouldn't say that I regret not getting the Performance model. I don't want the 21" wheels or the spoiler or the interior changes. I just want the inverter.

Tesla, give it to me!

Brian H | July 18, 2013

You need a special group: "Dads drag-racing sons in Teslas." Founding Members!!