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Confirmed: Navigation Problem (5.0) fixed in next software release (1-3 weeks)

Confirmed: Navigation Problem (5.0) fixed in next software release (1-3 weeks)

I posted earlier that I picked up my new MS P85 at the end of August with SW version 5.0 and the navigation system frequently got lost or the arrow just spun around randomly making it virtually useless. I had the San Diego service center pick up the car yesterday and will get it back today. Here's what Brian Todd and the delivery guy told me:
The Nav problem is well understood by the engineers and seems to be a problem in 5.0 firmware. The program is going through some initial loops and checks upon startup that it shouldn't. Brian said the engineers will be releasing a firmware upgrade in the next few weeks that should definitively fix that problem. I believe it's only happening on 5.0 because my loaner car had 4.5 and the nav worked perfectly.
The delivery guy told me that they are actually loading 4.5 software on new deliveries at the service centers now even when they come with 5.0 from the factory because of the nav system and other bugs in 5.0. So if you're bummed you don't have 5.0 don't be - they are still working out the bugs.
I also had very squeaky brakes at very low speeds even after 700 miles of use. I have the 21" wheels and Brian said that the larger wheels amplify the sound of the pads on the rotors so they replaced my rotors with the newer design that has a rougher surface to dampen the vibration and noise.
Although I didn't have any problems reported, they also added adhesive to a side panel and some additional brackets to the panoramic roof which they said others had complained about so they just took care of it as a preventative measure.

They dropped a beautiful MS 85 off as a loaner at my office and were incredibly professional and courteous to work around my schedule (I made them reschedule due to a meeting conflict the day before the original appointment). I was sent emails and voicemails a few times over 24 hours to give me updates on the status of my repair. Really an outstanding service experience!! I highly recommend Brian and his team if you are in Southern California and need any service done.

While not ideal that the nav system on a brand new $100K car doesn't work, I have nothing but praise for the SC and the way Tesla handled it.

Brian H | September 24, 2013

Yeah; the real question is: how did such a major misfire get out the door?

kmalloy | September 24, 2013

Agreed. It's very obvious so it's hard to understand how/if anybody actually tested the nav system with the new software version.

Andercam | September 24, 2013

@Brian H
I'm guessing because it's not on all the cars. I'm on 5.0 and haven't had this issue. My NAV and Map have been dead on. Granted I've only had the car two weeks.

Blueshift | September 24, 2013

Imagine that the GPS issue affects 1 percent of all 5.0 cars. Someone doing QA on the line would have to catch it in 1 out of every 100 cars. On the other hand the number of affected cars shipping to customers would be six per week or 24 per month (assuming production rate of 600 per week).

Small defect rates translate to more complaining customers per time period as the production rate increases.

Blueshift | September 24, 2013

grrr, 6 per month, we really need edit capability

Blueshift | September 24, 2013

nevermind

slipdrive | September 24, 2013

The P85 nav system seems to track and locate OK, but the map and distance calculations have been way off from the start 3K miles ago. Hopefully 5.0 firmware update will fix.

MarioA | September 24, 2013

I have one of the affected cars and started the original other thread on this topic. In that thread an owner claims his SC told him there was a hardware problem "with the gyro / accelerometer and its connection to the main screen / system." on new cars. Hmmm would prefer it to be software.
BTW - the percentage of new owners with this problem is WAY higher than 1%. In fact it almost seems the other way around. I see very few people responding to my original thread that say it is working properly on cars picked up in September.

Thomas N. | September 24, 2013

Working 100% fine here on a car picked up last week. P85 with Tech. On v5.0.

TeslaMD | September 24, 2013

Spinning GPS screen on my one week old P85 using v5.0.

dfriedman415 | September 24, 2013

No problems at all on my 85 picked up on Sept 20th in PA

mcohen.usa | September 24, 2013

I have a brand new P85 and have the Nav system problem as well. The map just spins and the car location jumps around. In addition, the labels don't rotate with the map, so they are sometimes upside down and as a result impossible to read. Not sure how this made it through QA?? Is it possible to revert to 4.5 which seems to be more stable?

AlMc | September 24, 2013

My take: There are a couple of problems with the 5.0 software that does not involve the GPS/mapping. Since this thread contains a statement that some new vehicles are coming with 4.5 that tells me that the software/firmware team is trying to address all the 'bugs' in the 5.0 offering before putting it into new cars and releasing it to existing S owners.

This makes perfect sense to me. As everyone would like to have a bug free 5.0. No sense to put more cars out that will frustrate new and current owners.

WSE51 | September 24, 2013

No GPS problems on my 5.0 firmware either, and I've used it for over 1,000 miles.

kmalloy | September 24, 2013

Here's the text from the service report:
Complaint Narrative: Customer states: Navigation works 50% of the time- cursor continues in
a straight line when road curves- symptom occurs with good 3G signal and post "reboot"
Pay Type: Warranty
Cause: Found gyro on gps unit malfunctioning. Engineering is currently working on the fix for
it. Will send to customer when it becomes available.
Correction: Navigation General Diagnosis
No repairs available at this time.

It sounds like the hardware/gyro problem MarioA posted but I'm sure he said they would deploy a firmware/software fix in the next few weeks. He even described the software behavior upon startup that they thought was causing it. If this is happening on similar models with the same software version it is sounding more like hardware than software. I'll be really upset if they find it's a hardware problem after what they told me.

MarioA - did the poster on your thread specify if they actually had the problem fixed with a hardware replacement of the gyro/display elements?

MarioA | September 24, 2013

Here is what he reported he was told when he took his car in for service. Have not heard if he ever got the temporary software patch.:

"1. Is a known issue with recent production cars. IS A HARDWARE ISSUE with the gyro / accelerometer and its connection to the main screen / system.

2. They are working on a hardware fix and when that is ready will notify me (and I assume all recent purchasers) for an appointment to bring in the car and replace the hardware.

3. In the meantime they took down my VIN and are going to push to my car a temporary software work around that evidently helps with the problem. It is supposed to come this evening."

kmalloy | September 25, 2013

I asked Brian at the San Diego SC to clarify the confusion in this thread. Here's his answer:
Update from San Diego SC on my P85+ MS (5.0) Nav problem:
n regards to the navigation issue, they are right on the money. The gyro is the main problem with the vehicle. Being that it is a hardware issue, they are fixing the problem on the line, then replacing customer vehicles in the field. The update I was talking about will ignore the gyro data. Essentially acting as a quick fix until the part becomes available. In regards to a timeline, I currently do not have anything. You are one of two on my list for this problem, so I will contact you as soon as we get an ETA.

Brian H | September 26, 2013

Gyro Gearloose would have known what to do instantly.

maxinedixit | September 28, 2013

I have problem with nav. I picked up my car on 9/11, yes 9/11.

mmutreja | October 7, 2013

I have the same problem. Nav Location goes off and main screen spins at times. Picked up 9/24 with 5.0. The spinning seems like the gyro problem but the location going off seems like a HW/SW issue even on the gps side?

AlanB | October 7, 2013

Interesting discussion. I have the 5.0 in a Sept delivery and have not had any map problems. The map rotates and that does rotate the location names upside down. Otherwise, it has been perfect. Love the option to mute and raise/lower the navigation voice.

Renegade | October 7, 2013

SC called me today asking to bring my S60 in tomorrow to have the MCU replaced to fix the problem. Said they needed for the entire day. Fine with me, as long as it gets fixed!

So its hardware needed to fix this, not a software patch it looks like.

Kapil | October 7, 2013

The replacement MCU is a refurb, not new. Nothing like spending 100k on a car, getting a defective nav, and getting used parts to fix a bug that shouldn't be there.

SarahsDad | October 7, 2013

Sept delivery on mine w 5.0 software, >1,000 mi driven, no GPS problems.

Leadman | October 7, 2013

Late sept model S with tech package version 5. Same GPS issues as others have had. Hope the patch helps. The map is not useful about half the time. Love the rest of the car.

dramingly | October 7, 2013

I've had no problems with mine. Also picked up late September, software version 5. Guess it is the screen. Kapil, how do you know it is refurbished?

get_amped | October 7, 2013

I took delivery on September 15th.
The SC has had mine since last Friday. The NAV issue is one of the issues being addressed. Others involve a leather imperfection on the front passenger seat, driver side front door not being aligned with back door and a chip on the hood.
I'm supposed to get the car back tomorrow. I will provide an update once I find out how they addressed the NAV issue.

Kapil | October 7, 2013

@dramingly The service center told me it's a refurb.

hungry | October 8, 2013

I heard today from Fremont service center that they are testing and will release 5.5 in 2 weeks.

get_amped | October 8, 2013

The SoCal service center had my car since last Friday and apparently could not reproduce the NAV issue. It took me three minutes today to show one of their mechanics the problem...
They suggested I wait until next week when 5.6 is released. If that doesn't solve the problem they will replace the MCU. Needless to say I'm disappointed.

theroundhead | October 19, 2013

Just got firmware 5.6 on Friday and so far, it does seem to fix the GPS problem.

Sgt Barone | October 19, 2013

Great news!

kdeckster | October 19, 2013

5.6 resolved most of my GPS issues. prior my P85 on 5.0 would almost certainly bug out after 2 minutes of use.

i believe this is because they disabled a defective gyroscope.

shilo_js | October 26, 2013

My Nav works fine, except for the traffic setting. That's been pure garbage since maybe delivery plus 30days. Afternoon shows morning info and vice versa. Reset the software a few times - no luck. Anyone else have this issue?

darthbeldar | October 26, 2013

5.6 also fixed my GPS issue, had 5.0 on P85 vin 177XX delivered Aug 30th. Had to call Tesla ownership and got OTA update the same day.

SCCRENDO.Ca.US | October 26, 2013

I am still on 4.5 and see the same traffic issue. I believe the screens sometimes need to catch up. I usually use satellite view but when the traffic seems behind I turn off satellite and I see the correct traffic. Also just zooming in or out one level will do it. Eventually your original view catches up.

Boca Steve | November 4, 2013

I am going to go crazy if I don't get the FW update soon! My Nav has been completely spastic and is incredibly distracting. I've been complaining to Tesla since I picked up this car and I still don't have an update so its frustrating to hear that one has already been released. Ugh! Hopefully it will also fix my Homelink programming problem.

bobcls | April 3, 2014

Spoke with Tesla service and I have the same spinning GPS problem (purchased 9-30). The fix seems to be disable the gyro. So my question is what is the intended function of the gyro and what function is modified or disabled?