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Does it make you laugh that the CaddilacELR EV is setting its price same as MS?

Does it make you laugh that the CaddilacELR EV is setting its price same as MS?

Saw the article announcing the pending arrival of chevy/caddillac luxury entry into the EV market.

Essentially, its a chevy volt, with a couple more interior luxury appointments.

However, it will be priced very close to the same as base MS.

It doesnt have the storage capacity or the roomy space of the MS.

It doesnt have the power of the MS or speed or handling performance.

It doesnt have the display monitor or self improving software.

Its battery doesnt have the range of the MS, in fact the range is something under 60 miles i believe.

It is still a hybrid, so technically it still needs gas. But it will also hence need oil changes, more repairs, with more moving parts, drivetrains, transmission, carbeurators etc.

Its only real advantage to the MS it points to is that it has overall more range than the MS since it can run on gas after the battery is empty.

Does this equate to charging equal price to the MS?

I must be missing something, surely those bright minds at GM management ranks are smarter than me, but i cant figure it out....

eddiemoy | October 12, 2013

it isnt going to sell... not until they stop dicking around and make a compelling all electric... but then there is the dilemma of those dealers... if they make an all electric, how would the dealers make money if the car would to last maintenance free. until the figure this piece out the dealers will steer their customers away. plus there isnt anything similar to the tesla supercharging/battery swapping stations.

Captain_Zap | October 12, 2013

I think that they really don't want to sell a BEV. I think that this plug-in hybrid is an attempt to lure people onto the sales lot to look at the car and them steer them away towards something else. Gee, look at how many more gadgets you an get for less money in a pure ICE! Nudge, nudge. Those that are sold might just be compliance cars for credits in their eyes.

PapaSmurf | October 12, 2013

It is also only a 2 door car. Not good.

It isn't really a good EV.
It isn't really a good gas car.
As a result, it does neither well. So why would this be a compelling car to buy at $70,000?

The Model S is hugely successful because it does so many things at a stunning level that we can overlook a few minor issues (cup holders, 2nd row lack of headroom).

This Cadillac Volt would likely sell at $50,000. But I think it will struggle at the Model S price range.

dramingly | October 12, 2013

When I started looking beyond basic hybrids, I was going to wait for this car, but the price started creeping up very close to Model S levels. At the price they are asking, it's really an unfair fight.

When I looked at Volts, Ford plug-ins, etc, it really was amazing in that the sales people either knew nothing about the cars or became visibly disinterested when I told them what I was looking for.

jeffsstuff | October 12, 2013

By making something that nobody wants, they can then point to its poor sales and say, "see… Nobody wants electric vehicles" ignoring the thousands of satisfied (obsessive? Elated? Ecstatic? ) Tesla owners.

Lessmog | October 12, 2013

But cupholders! (?)

dramingly | October 12, 2013

That article is ridiculous except for this line: "Company executives have emphasized that ELR will be a low sales-volume car."

772 | October 12, 2013

i agree, the major autos really don't want to make a good EV

redacted | October 12, 2013

@jeffstuff Elonic? High elonic?

BobJordan | October 12, 2013

Anybody remember the Cadillac Cimarron from the early '80s? It was essentially a tarted up Chevy Cavalier. Deja vu time!

Thumper | October 12, 2013

The ELR web page says only 35 miles of EV range.

Bonlaw | October 12, 2013

What makes me laugh, or at least smile, is that on the TMC site, Cadillac is paying to advertise. No chance that it will be able to compete with the S, but it is admittedly nice looking

Bikezion | October 12, 2013

This is what GM team came up with after studying Tesla? Are Americans dumb enough to believe it competes because it costs as much? Tesla is going to kick all these other companies right upside the head! They won't even know what happened until long after bankruptcy. I can't wait for a full range of models from Tesla. When Tesla starts selling trucks and seriously cuts into Ford and GM profits, then they'll know there is a problem. Imagine an F150 like vehicle that gets 100 mpge, so long Eco boost.

Roamer@AZ USA | October 12, 2013

Hybrids are yesterday tech.

772 | October 12, 2013

GM exec: So guys, how did our new EV project turn out?

GM engineer: Well sir, it has worse performance, less range, no SC network, worse onboard technology, worse design, less interior room, and higher maintenance costs than our competitors.

GM exec: So you're telling me we can charge a premium for it, then. Great work, guys!

GM board: Sounds good. With your strategy of saturating the market with crappy cars at high prices, you should just about avoid a complete disaster.

AmpedRealtor | October 12, 2013

GM and the others don't understand a simple point that is at the forefront of this Tesla Model S owner's mind: Your car still needs gas. Any car that still needs gas is a failure. Toyota is skipping EVs altogether and is putting its money on vaporware known as the hydrogen fuel cell. Toyota is still hoping that infrastructure for this will be built in California, which will require a great deal of magic because this has been discussed now for 10-15 years and without any real progress.

One of the biggest advantages to EV ownership is charging at home. One of the best arguments towards greater EV adoption is that cleaning up the central power source instantly cleans up every car that relies on that power. ICE vehicles continue to burn gasoline and pollute for their entire lives.

This car buying consumer will dismiss every "new" vehicle that requires gasoline, no matter how little, or that cannot be fueled at home.

Roamer@AZ USA | October 12, 2013

Someday the ICE world will figure out that Rube Goldburg hybrid mechanical electrical drives are just plain stupid.

The future will be pure battery

Or

Battery with an onboard electrical generator, operating only when needed, at its absolute optimal RPM and load for optimal efficiency. Solves the truck and SUV problem where power demands to perform the intended function may exceed available battery power.

Via motors is on the right track with the right ideas for larger heavier vehicles. http://www.viamotors.com/

Buying a plug in mechanical drive hybrid doubles your maintenance costs and repair complexity.

If Tesla made a four wheel drive .. PU85 (pick up ), with a natural gas turbo generator to provide supplemental electrical power and charging I would buy it tomorrow.

The ICE manufacturers seem to be stuck on mechanical drives and are afraid to go full electric drive for some reason.

thranx | October 12, 2013

They still don't get it...or don't want to.

AmpedRealtor | October 12, 2013

This is indeed a sad lesson for GM... all of that time and money spent studying Tesla, and what is the take away? We need a luxury Volt! Oh boy.

Lessmog | October 12, 2013

What they need is F-luxury Capacitorx.

jcaspar1 | October 12, 2013

Are you sure about the lack of software upgrades? Our 2012 Ford Explorer has an upgradeable software. We have had 4-5 upgrades so far, all adding small features and fixing bugs. It is not done over the air but via a USB drive. It also has 3 selectable screens, one on each side of the speedo display and then the center console display (much smaller than the Tesla of course)

I do wish they would push more electrics. At least they have the spark now. Ford and Nissan are doing better. Toyota of course is the furthest behind...

Pricee2 | October 12, 2013

It makes me sad. I would like to see other auto makers make BEV's to compete with Tesla because competition drives innovation and lowers prices. But until the management of big auto find a cure for their cranial rectitus I will drive my P85 and wait until the Gen III arrives.

cvalhalla | October 12, 2013

Not a bad car. It is too bad they decided to price it so no one will buy it.

judimasters | October 12, 2013

But the Caddy has "Power Assisted Cup Holders"! HAHAHAHAHA

Dramsey | October 12, 2013

C'mon. It's been more than 20 years since you could buy a new car with a "carbeurator".

alcassfast | October 12, 2013

It looks like a collapsed lung.

judimasters | October 12, 2013

My good friend who is not yet a Tesla owner has always been a loyal GM guy who has worked for the company in the past. His opinion is that GM has decided to take a Chevrolet and re-emblem them to be a Cadillac ie: Cimerron and Escalade and now the ELR, to elevate its status and therefore justifying the inflated price. The vehicles do not come close to Tesla. By re badging a cheap Chevrolet doesn't alter the fact that it is a cheap Chevrolet. Range, safety, technology, performance and an all new concept in transportation is what makes a Tesla Model S in a league of its own. Cadillac needs to step it up and develop its own, rather than "trying" to compete with this highly and individually developed vehicle.
Why would he consider buying the Cadillac ELR that is a re-badged Volt, rather than the highly developed and well engineered Model S?
Tesla took the old GM plant and turned it into a beautiful, high tech and highly productive facility. This tells us that GM throws money away. Take a look at "Mega factories Tesla" on You Tube. You will be amazed at how Tesla has taken a derelict nonfunctioning "Ghost Town" and transformed it into the today high tech manufacturing facility. BUILT BY AND FOR AMERICANS IN AMERICA! The company could have been taken anywhere in the world but it is here!!!! Thank you Elon!!!!

AmpedRealtor | October 12, 2013

This photo of the interior makes me laugh...

772 | October 12, 2013

agreed, just ridiculous

Lessmog | October 12, 2013

Much sexy leather and buttons to push - to say nothing of the stick.
Still a FrankenSaab. Guess which brand I feel is the more degraded?

Captain_Zap | October 12, 2013

That interior looks cluttered and wierd with all those buttons.
Why would they put a stick where I store my bag?
What a waste of space! ;-)

TikiMan | October 12, 2013

IMHO, I can see the car doing well with the seventy+ crowd. Cadillac hasn't really secured the younger generation, other than the hip-hop / gangster crowd (whom mostly preferred their SUV back when gas was still $2.00 a gal). Otherwise, Cadillac just isn't recognized as being 'cool' by the general populous anymore.

mclary | October 12, 2013

So sad. Nice try GM.

Kleist | October 12, 2013

I think it is great - priced around the MS... makes the MS look more affordable. Lets see how many they can sell

jk2014 | October 12, 2013

GM would do much much better reviving the EV1 then producing the ELR. It's another compliance car. Nothing more.

Dramsey | October 12, 2013

IMHO, I can see the car doing well with the seventy+ crowd. Cadillac hasn't really secured the younger generation, other than the hip-hop / gangster crowd (whom mostly preferred their SUV back when gas was still $2.00 a gal). Otherwise, Cadillac just isn't recognized as being 'cool' by the general populous anymore.

I take it you don't know about the insanely fast supercharged V-series Caddys...

mrspaghetti | October 12, 2013

FUGLY, inside and out IMO. I almost think this is a joke - was that article taken from the Onion? Because if that is a serious offering then GM is even more screwed up than I thought (and that's saying a lot).

edcalis | October 13, 2013

Who would want to buy a conventional phone for the same price of an iPhone?
Who would want to buy a conventional car for the same price of a Tesla?

dramingly | October 13, 2013

I am on the mailing list for this car, because I was seriously considering it before I realized that it's price was going to be in the same range as the Model S. Thank goodness I didn't wait for this.

While it was always going to be built on the Volt platform, there were upgrades to the electric performance that were planned (more power, more electric range). It looks like the electric only range is now lower than the Volt! It seems like, after all this time, they couldn't come up with anything on the engineering side and just decided to stick a new shell on it.

I wonder how much of our bailout money this will lose?

dramingly | October 13, 2013

And, according to the Cadillac site, charging takes 5 hours on 240 volt system... to get 36 miles of range!

jcaspar1 | October 13, 2013

Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche are the ones who need to get off their butts and modernize or go the way of the dinosaurs. They are losing major sales to Tesla and they are much further behind than GM or Ford. Nice to see GM at least entering the market but sad that they were once the leader in electric vehicles and lost it.

jcaspar1 | October 13, 2013

But I bet it includes rear camera with guidance lines, adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance, side collision avoidance, individual tire pressure monitors, cooled seats, heated steering wheel, iPod support, speed sensitive volume, road speed displayed on map, shuffle play USB, key FOB linked driver profiles and useable cup holders! Maybe that's why it's so expensive...

mrspaghetti | October 13, 2013

@jcaspar1

What's that saying about putting lipstick on a pig...?

jjs | October 13, 2013

If I were an engineer at GM, F, or C....or any of the other car manufacturers and had a true passion of engineering; for creating superior products, for innovation, for making a difference and making my life matter; I would be very frustrated with my leadership. I would be jealous of those innovators at Tesla and I would be polishing up my resume.

I have followed this forum for about 2 years. I thought those that said that the other manufactures would not respond due to internal politics/self serving interests/inertia where simply angry people with an axe to grind. Sadly it turns out that I was just naive.

I am astounded that in 2 years no one is closing the gap. Rather it seems to be widening.

Someone please tell me I'm wrong! (OK. Back it with facts too. If you are like my wife you will tell me I'm wrong just for the fun of it. :) )

Captain_Zap | October 13, 2013

Touche' Mrspaghetti!

AmpedRealtor | October 13, 2013

Polishing a turd...

robby81 | October 13, 2013

Has anyone seen the unveiling video / event? That director lady just says luxury / luxurious about a 100 times. I think that was their last ditch attempt at selling this thing.

It's a shame because if she'd said luxury just one more time, I would have bought one.

robby81 | October 13, 2013
Mark K | October 13, 2013

Sheesh, where do you begin?

At the core of the problem is the leadership. They pander to legacy expectations of loyal customers, rather than bringing them forward to future.

GM's technical ranks are plenty talented, (the skateboard chassis was developed by them 20 years ago). Their management is cynical and kills off the ideas of the best and brightest. It's quite sad, really.

Thank heaven TM exists, because without them another generation would have passed before we started moving forward.

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