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FACT CHECKING COUNTDOWN: An Anti-FUD, Anti-Troll Theorem Thread

FACT CHECKING COUNTDOWN: An Anti-FUD, Anti-Troll Theorem Thread

● FEAR -- Fear that Tesla is in fact some sort of scam that is pushing the Green Agenda for nefarious purposes...
-- Fear that you might be counted among the number of FOOLS that have been led astray by pie-in-the-sky 'promises' that are certain to NEVER happen...
● UNCERTAINTY -- Uncertainty that Tesla's cars will ever be viable for more than a handful of months or years and that the batteries will die practically overnight then be ridiculously expensive to replace...
-- Uncertainty that anything Tesla builds will be 'worth the money' in any way, without the traditional styling, commitment to craftsmanship, attention to detail, and dedication to heritage that 'everyone else' claims to excel in...
-- Uncertainty that you may have fallen under the spell of a fast talking flim-flam man, shyster, or lying con artist who has preyed upon your deepest hopes to deceive you...
● DOUBT -- Doubt that Tesla will be around to handle warranty concerns after they go out of business in disgrace following the shenanigans of Elon Musk are inevitably exposed for the manipulative lies they've always been...
-- Doubt that Tesla has the expertise to do anything at all they claim to be planning...

These are the tools that Trolls use to spread their Theorem, Thesis, & Theatrical displays of alarm and warning that nothing anyone hears about Tesla that is in the slightest bit positive can be trusted at face value. They tell anyone that listens that supporters of Elon Musk and/or Tesla are 'blind followers' that don't know any better, steeple that have fallen under the spell of a master manipulator and complete liar. A false leader with the sole goal of selling his lies as fact to gullible followers.

Trolls have suggested for several years that Tesla is destined to go out of business 'any day now'. Some of the most famous Trolls are Anton Wahlman, Edward Niedermier, Keefe Wivaneff, and others.

Crap. Deleted my post by mistake. Starting over with an earlier save...

Anyway, lost a good bit of what I had written before. Since HIM666 refuses to specify when Tesla is 'going out of business' I'll assume that since his previous guesses were wrong (he indicated multiple times between October 2017 and March 2018 that Tesla would 'run out of money and go bankrupt within two quarters'), he might choose a time frame in the relative near future to be wrong this time. So, he would likely claim that no one, anywhere, will order or receive the base, Standard Range Model 3 prior to January 1, 2019, and also claim that Tesla will file bankruptcy on, by, or before March 31, 2019.

We'll see.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 2, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. So much for 'any day now'. So, Trolls were wrong today.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 3, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. What a big surprise. Really it was. Let's see how things go tomorrow.

dmastro | September 3, 2018

Relevance to M3? This should go in General.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 3, 2018

Trolls claim as part of their FUD Theorem that the more cars Tesla builds, the closer they get to bankruptcy. Tesla builds more of the Model 3 than any other vehicle. Thus, they believe Model 3 Production is driving Tesla to bankruptcy. Let's keep track, to see if their thesis is in fact, correct. In the interest of transparency and visibility, this should definitely be in the Model 3 forum.

johnse | September 3, 2018

@ReD

I think you meant to write “sheeple” instead of steeple?

cascadiadesign | September 3, 2018

Yeah - The Tesla "Death Watch" has been going on for years. Elon makes fun of it in a 2015 interview. Search YouTube for "Elon Musk 2015 Detroit Auto Show Full Interview" Elon also debunked the govt loan criticism and other myths that somehow continue to circulate even today.

As an aside, it's a fun interview to watch because it reminds us how far Tesla has come since Jan 2015. In Jan 2015 Gigafactory construction had just started, and Model 3 was in early design phase.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 3, 2018

johnse: Yeah, I had corrected that in an earlier version, before accidentally erasing my work. I was pretty proud of it all, but probably should have saved more often. Like at least every paragraph. A shame there is no built in 'Undo' or 'Redo' function in Android that I can find...

cascadiadesign: It created a Tesla History playlist on YouTube that is fun to use as a means to reminisce. It contains videos going back to 2008. The level of vehemence by which Tesla Haters demanded that NO ONE should or would buy their cars or invest in the company is truly amazing. Those NaySayers are still around, but none of them have backed up even a single inch from their prior statements, predictions, accusations, or FUD. Much like HIM666, they are dedicated to seeing Tesla go down for good. Especially the ones who were certain that Elon Musk would fail catastrophically this time and that no one would 'bail him out' as they claimed had been done with his other companies. They really liked calling him a 'serial entrepreneur' for some reason, to make it seemed he lacked focus and dedication maybe, and never noted how he, personally, never wanted to sell any of them. Both Zip2 and PayPal were unfinished business from his perspective. He had planned to do a lot more with them. I'mean glad he'll get to FINISH with SpaceX, Tesla, and SolarCity. The Boring Company and Hyperloop should end up in spectacular fashion as well.

gballant4570 | September 3, 2018

Elektric had an article last week all about how Tesla is now 10 years dead, according to the initial FUD efforts. It was quite funny. Unfortunately for the FUDsters, not only has Tesla failed to expire as predicted, THE MISSION IS ALIVE AND WELL, AND PROSPERING.

The death of The Mission is truly the ultimate aim of the Filthy FUDsters. Not only is it alive and well, it is spreading into the rest of the auto industry.

Evidence of that spread appears on a daily basis - recent evidence is the Reuters article I linked in another thread today about the Mercedes Tesla Killer or some other such title. Also today I read another report about GM of all organizations getting into the charging business, planning to outdo Tesla with 180 mile in 10 minute charging.

The Mission abides and thrives.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 3, 2018

gballant4570: I've noticed how major news organizations with 24-hour news channels, the ones that depend upon advertising revenue for support, strategically never cover Tesla's stated MISSION in any substantial fashion at all. When they talk about the 'history' of Tesla, they make sure to hit certain points of interest... nearly closing Tesla before Elon Musk put his last dime in the project, having manufacturing issues with the Roadster, reports of Tesla car fires, the extended WAIT for Model X, Elon's outspoken, 'boastful' nature, and 'charismatic showmanship'... but they always steer wide and clear of The MISSION Statement from 2006 or Tesla's progression toward goals outlined there since, broad sentiment from ANALysts when Tesla announced an intention to sell perhaps 20,000 units of Model S per year worldwide, how Tesla paid back the entire Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program loan to the Department of Energy nine years early, including iinterest and penalties five years ago, while neither Ford nor Nissan have followed suit for many multiples more money. Maybe the journalists took the '· Don't tell anyone' bullet point to heart?

The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me)
Elon Musk, Co-Founder & CEO of Tesla Motors
August 2, 2006
https://www.tesla.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-...

peter.watson51 | September 3, 2018

Really disappointing it is. Some people just can't see a good thing even right in front of them.
The mission of Tesla always seems obscured by "important facts(usually negative) when the most valuable part of the company is its mission, which appears to be not only on track, but accelerating seriously.

gcklo | September 3, 2018

I have every confidence on Tesla and Elon Musk. The company may not be perfect but it is better than any competitor.

I won’t buy another ICE car ever again because of Tesla

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 4, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. I'm not too surprised that 'any day now' hasn't come yet. I seem to remember that HIM666 claimed that traditional automobile manufacturers would be picking over the bones of Tesla in bankruptcy proceedings by now...

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 5, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. Well, this must be mighty frustrating for Anton Wahlman, Edward Niedermier, and Keef Wivaneff. They've generally expected Tesla to die off every day since 2007. Does anyone else feel the same anymore?

spuzzz123 | September 5, 2018

I think tomorrow is the day

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 5, 2018

spuzzz123: We'll just have to see...

In the interest of 'fact checking'... It seems that 'The Truth About Cars' original thread of blog posts concerning Tesla were called 'Tesla Birth Watch'. The instant that it was reported any of the completed examples of Tesla Roadster had been Delivered to a paying Customer in 2008, they began the Tesla Death Watch. Of course, the sentiment behind the Tesla Birth Watch had always been the Tesla Roadster was vaporware and that it would be stillborn, or that Tesla would go out of business without delivering a single one, ever.

TMC | TTAC: Tesla Born! Birth Watch Over! (begins Death Watch) May 15, 2008
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ttac-tesla-born-birth-watch-over...

spuzzz123 | September 5, 2018

Ha may 15 2008 was my 40th birthday

SamO | September 5, 2018

Tesla is so structurally ahead of its competitors. The proof is that VW was willing to pony up billions to own a small piece.

Charging Network: ~$400-$600M* dollars and years invested in Super/Destination relationships at key locations connecting highways. Another $ billion more TO BE spent on 50-stall stations, MegaChargers and restaurant/lounge stations throughout the country over the next 3-5 years.

$15k/-$30,000/Supercharger stall
$1500/Destination stall

That sounds like small potatoes, but you can't catch Tesla more quickly with more money. Planning, permits, red-tape and landlord agreements take years. There's only one network like Tesla, today.

If you go to Walmart . . . then you have the Walmart car and the margins associated therewith. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche: all "Tesla Killers" want to associate with this brand? lol.

There are answers, but dealerships aren't it.

We'll see what the market delivers outside of OEMs. Tesla's position looks great far into the future.

AND CHARGING IS ONLY ONE METRIC.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 5, 2018

SamO: Indeed. As time has progressed, all of the 'crazy' things Tesla has chosen to do have turned out to be the RIGHT thing to do. All of the 'alternatives' that others suggested are now clearly the WRONG thing to do.

Plug-in hybrid range extension did NOT work for either Fisker Karma or Chevrolet VOLT. One is out of business, the other has been outsold every year since 2013.

'Cheap', low capacity, short range, compliance cars without DC fast charging have NOT worked for anyone, anywhere -- none have been successful. Building expensive cars around a 'big battery' and making the most of range and performance with a target set on 'NO COMPROMISES' worked just fine for Tesla despite the projections of their detractors.

Fisker, Coda, and others used traditional means of distribution, 'independent franchised dealerships'... They went out of business. Tesla chose to sell direct, allow the products to speak for themselves, allow word of mouth to bring in new Customers, and spent nothing on traditional advertising via print, radio, or television.

General Motors stated they had no interest in starting or participating in a charging network to support the BOLT. Tesla chose to announce and continually expand the Supercharger network, both nationwide and internationally. All their current vehicles may take advantage of it. Tesla opened six Supercharger sites in October 2012, said they could potentially cover over 90% of the population in the 'lower 48' with 200 sites across the U.S., and currently have 564 operational Superchargers in the U.S.

Per InsideEVs, there had been 9,033 BOLT sold though July 2018, and 38,082 Model 3. That's a 4.2158751245:1 ratio in Tesla's favor. Not that GM ever actually intended for BOLT to sell well, even with an eight/nine month lead on beginning production/sales. Someone has to build them before anyone will come. Well, unless it is a Tesla.

I wonder if people will be [PEEVED] if Tesla were to announce there will be no preorders or reservations taken for Model Y...?

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 6, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. Yay! Truth!

gcklo | September 6, 2018

As long as Tesla is not bankrupt, I will only buy cars from Tesla.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 7, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. Trolls the world over have no cause to celebrate the utter decimation of sales for ICE based competitors by Model 3 in both July and August of 2018. Oh, they wanted so much for people to believe thrir FUD, meant to discourage Tesla Enthusiasts from buying... And it didn't work at all.

Well, they can atleast be happy that GOODCARBADCAR.net reduced their estimate of Model 3 U.S. sales in August 2018 from 20,450 units tobonly 17,800 as reported by InsideEVs... Though that still represents a 19.94% increase over July 2018 U.S. sales of 14,250 units... So, maybe not, since Trolls insisted there was no 'ramp up at all', that Tesla was experiencing 'lower demand', and a practical 20% improvement month-to-month proves them entirely wrong, again.

In terms of trends, Model 3 outsold Mercedes-Benz C-Class, BMW 3-Series, and AUDI A4 combined by 31.42% in July 2018, and outsold them all by a combined 34.89% in August 2018.

JULY
14,250 ___ Tesla Model 3
_2,746 ___ AUDI A4
_3,185 ___ BMW 3-Series
_3,841 ___ Mercedes-Benz C-Class

2,746 + 3,185 + 3,841 = 9,772

9,772 ÷ 14,250 = 0.685754386

A total 31.42% advantage for Tesla Model 3 compared to all those competitors.

AUGUST
17,800 ___ Tesla Model 3
_3,768 ___ AUDI A4
_3,751 ___ BMW 3-Series
_4,071 ___ Mercedes-Benz C-Class

3,768 + 3,751 + 4071 = 11,590

11,590 ÷ 17,800 = 0.6511235955

A combined 34.89% advantage for Model 3 over all the others (higher than the month before), despite their sales improving by 15.69% month-to-month.

9,772 ÷ 11,590 = 0.8431406385

Traditional automobile manufacturers observing Tesla's sales in a 'Wait and see...' manner are no different than traditional department stores looking at revenue results for Walmart. They will eventually try to get a piece of the pie for themselves from the upstart 'newcomer'. And when they do, they'll apply the wrong strategy due to pride and prejudice.

Companies like JC Penney, Sears, and Kmart mistakenly thought Walmart had grown as they did because of low prices. No, Walmart grew because they built their own, internal distribution channel. They chose not to expand or open a new store anywhere unless it was within 12 hours' drive to make deliveries from a distribution center. Do, they earned that expansin inch-by-inch, mile-by-mile, throughout the U.S. All while filling in that 'big, empty place' ('flyover country') between Los Angeles and New York. None of the others had built a similar distribution network, they relied upon the third party distribution of their vendors. So, they couldn't stock their stores as quickly or as profitably as Walmart, when they tried to steal and copy their business method by going with lower prices. Oh, and they weren't as aggressive as Walmart at getting lower prices from either American, Mexican, or Chinese suppliers. It just didn't work. Today, Sears, Kmart, and JC Penney are constantly rumored to be staving off bankruptcy wuarter-to-quarter,month-to-month, week-to-week, day-to-day, hour-by-hour, and minute-by-minute.

Traditional automobile manufacturers refuse to build out their own Fast DC Charging networks in a manner to allow easy travel between major population centers. Instead, they have only courted existing third party firms that offer slow, low level urban charging infrastructure in a piecemeal fashion. Sometimes they claim to offer charging at their 'independent franchised dealerships', yet that experience has proven difficult at best, since the 'rules' vary from one site to the next. Some are only open during business hours. Some are available only to prople who bought from that particular store, even for the same brand cars. Some are routinely blocked by ICE vehicles. By expessly deciding not to replicate or participate in the Tesla Supercharger network, traditional automobile manufacturers remove a fundamental factor that has led to Tesla's success, and cripple their own chances with EVs.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 8, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. The expected quarterly DIP in TSLA has taken place, just ahead of the end of the BIGGEST QUARTER IN TESLA HISTORY, and Tesla fans are wisely using this as an opportunity to BUY at a discount! They'll gain far more in years to come than shorts have won in the past couple of weeks.

I wonder how many automotive companies that use 'independent franchised dealerships' will declare bankruptcy in the next three-to-five years, so they can dump NADA and the UAW legally?

SamO | September 8, 2018

Buy Mortimer, buy . . . buy . . .

Bill.Hohensee | September 9, 2018

Here's a helpful review along with embedded videos on estimated costs -

https://exclusivedetail.com/best-paint-protection-film/

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 9, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business. The number one troll around here has still not responded with an updated declaration of when he actually expects Tesla to go belly up once and for all. Maybe he has abandoned that tack, knowing full well that Tesla gave Goldman Sachs The FINGER and won't be borrowing from them again, EVER. Little do they realize, their attempt to sabotage TSLA by announcing the stock would fall was calculated as being precisely what it has become -- an opportunity for LONGS to buy and HOLD forever.

SamO: The 'usual wager' is a good thing.

SamO | September 9, 2018

I bet you $1 that I can turn an ordinary ignorant TSLAQ bear into an over the top fanboi TSLA bull.

It's not heredity. It's environment.

spuzzz123 | September 9, 2018

Hey Red, him666 has officially signed off. Claims he canceled his last reservation and is leaving the forum for good. I’m sure he hasn’t one or more other names. Coincidentally a new one named Jake something or other just popped up and started with the exact same rhetoric that’s mos did.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 9, 2018

SamO: Wait... There are LGBTQ Bear$...? Why?

spuzzz123: Thanks for the update. Yes, I'm sure that His Infernal Majesty is still among us. Note that even Carl Thompson has returned of late, spouting claims of the superior expertise of vehicle prep by 'independent franchised dealerships' and stuff, and how 'the masses' will demand more from Tesla or whatever. The constant claim that Tesla hasn't done enough to satisfy traditional luxury car buyers and won't be able to lure 'regular, ordinary' buyers due to high prices and lack of features compared to your basic Kia are truly laughable. The features that matter most are the fully electric drivetrain, available range, presence of the Supercharger network, and complete absence of 'independent franchised dealerships' throughout the United States of America.

Meanwhile, when it comes to the greatly diminished importance of passenger car sales in the U.S.... Only four cars outsold the Model 3 in August 2018...

PASSENGER CAR U.S. SALES AUGUST 2018
30,141 ___ Toyota Camry
27,277 ___ Honda Civic
26,725 ___ Honda Accord
26,155 ___ Toyota Corolla
17,800 ___ Tesla Model 3

So Tesla Model 3 outsold Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, Volkswagen Passat, Volkswagen Jetta, Kia Optima, Hyundai Sonata, Ford Focus, Nissan Sentra, Kia Forte, Hyundai Elantra, and several other 'affordable' cars in August. Does that not mean the Model 3 is also 'affordable'? See, I have argued for quite some time that a compelling mass market long range fully electric car would sell well at affordable price points. To date, it seems, the Model 3 is that car.

So, now... Let's hear from those who said I was wrong when I told them the Model 3 didn't have to cost $25,000 or less to be accepted as a mass market vehicle... Go ahead. I'm waiting.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 10, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

How can this possibly be? We've been assured by EV NaySayers for years on end that Tesla was naught more than a scam, showing vaporware products that no one asked for that cannot possibly work, or a Ponzi scheme set up to rob gullible investors, not a 'real company' at all, but a means to worm money out of the government by raiding tax dollars at the Federal and State level to fund the green energy fever dreams of a billionaire moronic childish idiot oaf of a charismatic Nerd-Messiah EV cultist lying con-artist with a complete lack of interest in listening to good sense or facing reality in any reasonable fashion because he is so very obviously crazy and will certainly ruin any faint hope of profitability or success for the firm with his wild antics and ridiculous ideas that don't follow proven strategies used by the biggest companies in the world because he is curious and wants to try new things because he is so all fired certain that he has conceived 'a better way' all the time instead of just doing what 'The Adults in the Room' tell him and delegating work to others through multiple levels of management that insulate him from the actual decision making process instead of having everyone and his Brother's Sister Sarah report directly to him and micromanaging, no, nanomanaging every aspect of the organization into an oft delayed early grave where it surely belongs but somehow has managed to escape for far too long -- but it's coming 'any day now' just watch -- because his Reality Distortion Field cannot possibly last forever and sooner or later they will reach a point where investors no longer give him the Benefit of the Doubt and banks refuse to give them loans, and outstanding debt is not given extensions and the crows will come to roost on the corpse of their picked over bones and all they have ever made is dismantled and dispersed to the four corners of the automotive industry through bankruptcy proceedings for cents on the millions burned and then Trolls can finally proclaim to the world victoriously, "See? I told you so!" with pride, prejudice, and professional fervor finally satisfied. Except...none of that is ever going to happen, because those guys don't realize it is their own biases and hatreds that lead them continually to conclusions that are completely wrong.

They might even see the FUD they seek to permeate these forums and all of news media with as a sort of 'service' meant to forewarn those who might fall under the spell of Tesla so that they avoid the stock and the company's products. FUD is never an aid to anyone. They should turn their 'Critical Thinking' techniques around and use them to examine their own thesis in detail.

Magic 8 Ball | September 10, 2018

It is a scam, the fake factory, fake superchargers, fake cars and fake customers have you all fooled, what a bunch of suckers!

When I took the factory tour it really looked real but since the moon landing was faked I should have known better.

To get over my misery of learning this whole thing is fake I will probably have to go for a drive in our fake car and do a few fake 0-60 punch outs and cry in my misery of being such a sucker.

apodbdrs | September 10, 2018

Articles from "Seeking Alpha" are totally anti TESLA and publish misinformation!

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 11, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

FUDsters: Yes. I can keep doing this all year. I don't like bullies. No matter where they come from.

Magic 8 Ball: Indeed. Every aspect of the FUD Mantra/Mania/Theorem/Thesis is laughably idiotic, ridiculously insane, and curiously tainted by malice. It sucks.

apodbdrs: I never visit that site if forewarned. I hate that the NEWS section of Google Search is poulated with their articles, with no way to block them. I never mention them by name, and use [SINKING ANCHOR] or [STINKING ASH-HEAP] as analogs.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 11, 2018

About those 'Teswa Kiwwas'...

AUGUST 2018 U.S. AUTO SALES
(TESWA KIWWA, LEAST EXPENSIVE ICE, BEST SELLING ICE FOR BRAND)
QTY _____ VEHICLE
_1,689 ___ Honda Clarity FCV
_2,545 ___ Honda FIT
27,677 ___ Honda Civic

__945 ___ Hyundai IONiQ
_2,586 ___ Hyundai Accent
15,475 ___ Hyundai Elantra

_1,315 ___ Nissan LEAF
_3,145 ___ Nissan VERSA
14,925 ___ Nissan ALTIMA

__116 ___ Toyota Mirai
_2,290 ___ Toyota Yaris
30,141 ___ Toyota Camry

In each of the above examples, the given 'Teswa Kiwwa' was unable to generate enough U.S. sales to surpass even the least expensive ICE from the same manufacturer during August 2018. Even though most of them are much more 'affordable' than the Tesla Model 3. Why is that? Has someone decided a Teswa Kiwwa doesn't have to defeat ICE along the way?

finman100 | September 11, 2018

1600 Fool Cell sales for Honda? Who are these delusional people buying such cars with NO infrastructure to really speak of nationwide (US)? wow. Honda is outdoing itself in convincing people they have a viable "alternative to gas" car. huh. just can't wrap my head around that one...

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 11, 2018

finman100: It is interesting that Honda outsold the Toyota Mirai by over 14 times in August. I think the problem is that with electric vehicles, deteactors lead with misinformation. They flat out lie. With HFCEVs they use disinformation instead. They leave out critical information that is needed to make an infotmed decision to buy or lease.

· Nothing but water from the tailpipe.
-- Cool, as long as you are not in an environment where the tailpipe freezes solid.
· Hydrogen is the most abundant element in tge universe.
-- Except that most of it exists as compounds, hardly any as free molecules.
· Hydrogen can come from water through solar powered electrolysis.
-- It can, through a very slow and painstaking process. Most is actually gleaned from steam reformation of natural gas taken from petroleum sources, because it is quicker and cheaper. A process that also creates carbon dioxide.
· Can use methane from biomass.
-- Once again, CAN, but isn't how it is actually done in practice.

There are other examples.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 12, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Yesterday, I decided to refer to various reported 'Tesla Killers', concept cars and renderings of 'electrified' cars meant to dethrone Tesla vehicles as the preeminent choice in the market, by offering competition to them, as 'Teswa Kiwwas'... Because I find that very funny. Remember Mel Blanc's voice characterization of Elmer FUDD, to understand why.

Yeaterday, dmastro chose to call me out as a hypocrite for NOT being critical of a series of statements I agreed with... That sucked. So I wrote a lengthy diatribe addressing Dfdny444 in what I perceive as the 'voice' of a Troll. I won't be doing that again. It hurt my brain to think in such a b@$sackward fashion.

spuzzz123 | September 12, 2018

Shew. I thought today was the day for the bankruptcy. I'll check back tomorrow

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 13, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

I am beginning to sense a trend...

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 14, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Oh, and unlike Ford Motor Company (F), Fiat-Chrysler (FCA), and General Motors (GM), Tesla stock (TSLA) did NOT close below $35 per share.

apodbdrs | September 14, 2018

It appears the LATimes is joining the FUD crowd in recent articles, almost daily there are attacks on Musk and TESLA. Must be the oil companies, ICE manufacturers, Media Ads, dealerships getting nervous they are about to lose billlions. They must be putting millions to destroy TESLA.

I LOVE my TESLA M3, everyday it find something GREAT!

Rocky_H | September 14, 2018

I was out of town for a week, so I'm just catching up reading this thread from the beginning. You're an unending fount of sarcasm, @ReD. It's frickin beautiful!

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 14, 2018

apodbdrs: The Los Angeles Times despises anything to do with Elon Musk.

Publicly, they have been against him from the moment he decided to build the Model S in the factory that had been the NUMMI plant instead of using warehouses in the City of Carson CA (also in Los Angeles County). Their position is ridiculous. Toyota basically 'sold' the place to them for a song, then employed Tesla for the same dollar amount to build the RAV4 EV drivetrain & battery pack. Tesla did that, and 'paid' Toyota with shares of TSLA and a position on their board. Tesla lost nothing, gained massive facilities, and the LAT hates them. Not a big deal at all.

Privately, the LA Times and other media publications are frustrated because Tesla does NOT purchase traditional advertising at all. From anyone. Ever. Not in print, not on the radio, not on television. They are afraid that sends a message that advertising is not necessary for success. I suspect the silent warning of the professional FUDsters is that until Tesla pays the piper, all news will be bad news.

Meh. I never thought advertising was necessary to begin with. Many thanks to Arby's, Mutual of Omaha, and Anheuser-Busch for sponsoring the thousands of hours of basketball and football programming I watched over the years. I still don't buy their products.

Amazing how many have been convinced that advertising expenses are 'The Cost of Doing Business!' over the years. I swear no one in my Family will stop buying Tide, Clorox, or Pine•Sol if Proctor & Gamble refrain from advertising. General Motors has spent not less than 3,000,000,000 on advertising in the U.S. alone each of the past several years. So, not less than $1,000 for each of the roughly 3,000,000 vehicles they sell here each year. Yay?

OK, I will admit that I enjoyed the soothing tones of Burguess Meredith doing voiceovers for Honda commercials in the 1980s. The first new car I bought was a Honda. So, yeah, maybe I'm not entirely immune to advertising. Or, I spent those months reading comparing, and researching out of due diligence prior to purchase to confirm what I already knew...

Tesla would not have sold even one more vehicle in the past six years than they already have by advertising. A website, a YouTube Channel, and a twitter feed seem to have worked just fine thus far. I expect that trend will continue for some time. So LAT is indeed SOL if they want revenue from Tesla, or SpaceX, or The BORING Company, or HyperLoop, or NeuralLink, or...

Rocky_H: Thank you. It warms my heart that you have accepted this thread in the spirit it was offered. Yes, my primary form of communication remains... sarcasm. It helps to burn holes through FUD Propaganda.

"My primary purpose is to burn holes through meatbags... Master." -- HK-47, Assassin Droid, 'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic'

The Best of HK-47 (KOTOR I) (10:57)
[ YouTube -- Vg1gTas7OAA ]

sheldon.mike1010 | September 14, 2018

@ReD eXiLe ms us
No lie about the LA Times Fudsters. Their 9-14 edition has an article that pulls together all the ugly stories
they could Google this week.

SamO | September 14, 2018

Who gives a shit. Honestly, the LA Times will have gone bankrupt and changed hands another bunch of times before we see the best days for Tesla.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 15, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Did anyone at CNBC, Motley Fool, [SINKING ANCHOR], The [LIES] about Cars, TheStreet, CNN, FAUX News, Bloomberg, Reuters, Associated Press, Forbes, WSJ, LAT, NYT, or Daily News notice?

NoMoPetrol | September 15, 2018

@ ReD:

Just a WAG but I'm betting that Tesla will still be in business tomorrow without bankruptcy having been filed...I am patiently waiting for the day when a bunch of Red State rednecks find themselves driving EV-powered company trucks that can run circles around their F-150's while pulling a full load. That's when the conversion of the unbelievers will begin.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 16, 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

NoMoPetrol: That's a good prediction, I think. The people who currently buy Ford Commercial Super Duty Pickup Trucks will find themselves in a Tesla Pickup Crew Cab 4×4 Dually for the same price or less with the same range and twice the tow rating. Third parties will be [PEEVED] to learn Tesla won't offer 'Stripped Chassis' versions of their electric drivetrains to be adapted for use in work trucks, panel vans, flatbeds, tow trucks, garbage trucks, or tour buses, though -- Tesla will someday build all those heavy vehicles themselves. FCA will be amazed at how quickly Tesla manages to match, then surpass their annual sales of RAM pickups. It will be wondrous to behold. But first, Tesla has to break ground in Arizona, New Mexico, or Texas with their next American Gigafactory...

$59,380 ___ F-450 XLT
$59,560 ___ F-350 King Ranch
$62,780 ___ F-350 Platinum
$63,115 ___ F-250 Platinum
$66,450 ___ F-450 Lariat
$73,385 ___ F-450 King Ranch
$78,130 ___ F-450 Platinum
$80,020 ___ F-250 Limited
$81,195 ___ F-350 Limited
$86,285 ___ F-450 Limited

Yes, I believe Tesla can compete with Ford's high end offerings and do so profitably. Dual motors on each would provide all the necessary torque. Battery packs of 150 kWh (15K), 200 kWh (20K), and 250 kWh (25K) would give the needed range). Or, they could go for broke, to redefine the whole F-150/1500HD nomenclature used by Chevrolet and Ford as 15K, 25K, & 45K for battery capacities of 150 kWh, 250 kWh, and 450 kWh. The least of these, at 150 kWh, would have the maximum tow rating associated with F-350 or 3500HD pickups at maybe $45,000 MSRP. I think that would work. Yeah. Truly a hardcore smackdown to ICE.

ravisundaramam | September 16, 2018

Right now Tesla is limited by how fast it can build them, not by demand. As long as this situation exists, Tesla will/should make the cars/trucks itself. When it has the capacity to make more it might offer stripped down chassis for people to make everything from tow trucks to hearses.

The amount of energy stored in the 75 kWh Tesla 3 itself is enormous. It can run my suburban 2700 sqft home for three days. A/C heater all lights electric cook top, electric range and electric clothes dryer. ... for two days! Tesla electric truck will come with a set of 240 V 30 amp and 120 V 15 amp outlets on either side. It can power them without running any carbon monoxide poisoning issue.

When the converter is developed, we might get it in passenger cars too. Can run a couple of electric girdles in the park for grilling toast, and stuff. Possibilities are enormous. When such unmatchable features start coming, the ICEV will have nowhere to hide.

Question is will at least a few make the transition successfully, or they will leave Tesla owning the *entire* automotive market.

ReD eXiLe ms us | September 16, 2018

ravisundaramam: Tesla's commitment to safety and dedication to Full Self Driving as a goal are not just lip service. Tesla probably could have farmed out the construction of extended wheelbase versions of Model S or Model X to any of several coachwork builders throughout California to build limousine versions year ago. They haven't, because those firms don't have to be as stringent about safety testing.

Apparently, any firm that builds 300 or fewer examples of a car per year doesn't have to bother with crash testing at all. If a modified, custom Tesla is ever involved in an accident, no local news station in the nation has any motivation to say anything other than it is Tesla's fault. So they won't.

Sure. There is a market for bare chassis. Ford has been taking advantage of that market for 100 years. But this goes to the fact that Ford is primarily a spare parts supplier first & foremost. They just happen to sell cars to market the brand.

Tesla makes more money from complete automobile sales. If someone wants to build a custom vehicle over Model S or Model X components, they can buy a completed vehicle and have fun. Same thing with Model 3, the upcoming Pickup Truck, or the Semi. I'm sure there will be a third party RV or Tour Bus before long.

cascadiadesign | September 16, 2018

The Los Angeles Times is known to overwhelming publish negative stories about Tesla.

In 2018, billionaire surgeon / entrepreneur Patrick Soon-Shiong became the owner of the LA Times.

Blackrock is an American global investment management corporation. They are an investor in Soon-Shiong's latest project which is a series of companies to research and fight cancer.

At the June 2018 meeting of Tesla shareholders, funds managed by BlackRock wanted to separate Musk from his role as chairman. Musk would have remained CEO of the company and an independent chairman would have been named.

Connect the dots people. This strongly suggests a motive for media bias at the LA Times. I pieced this together with just 10 minutes of online research. I think there is a bigger story here if someone wants to run with it.

And as a probably unrelated piece of trivia - the two wealthiest residents of Los Angeles are Patrick Soon-Shiong and Elon Musk.

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