Fremont Superchargers

Fremont Superchargers

Went to use the newly opened superchargers in Fremont, Ca today and much to my surprise the delivery team had taken all of the slots and were giving the delivery demonstrations on fully charged MS's. Would not have had an issue with it other than the fact that there was a line of about three long distance travelers waiting and after I had waited roughly 40 minutes and one customer drove away from the supercharger, I took the spot, delivery specialist started to say something but apparently thought better after seeing the line waiting. I know for a fact that as part of the final inspection cars are brought up to full charge via a supercharger in the final inspection area, and using the superchargers to maintain a full charge while delivering a vehicle is overkill.

mdemetri | August 17, 2013

Delivery demos while parked in the SC is bad form; especially with travelers waiting. If this is routine practice, it needs to stop.

keichhor | August 18, 2013

Went to the Fremont SC tonight just after 10pm, thinking there would be no one there. Just ahead of me was a Blue MS and an already parked/charged Black MS. I was shocked that anyone would even be there. I was underwhelmed with position 2a. I had 100 miles of range on my 60. The best rates I was able to get were 100 miles per hour on 115A and 345V. During my stay another black MS came in to charge as well.

When I left at 11pm ish, the same black MS was still plugged in with no owner around, fully charged, and another Dark gray? MS was arriving.

I will have to try 1a or 1b next visit to see if it is any faster.
My wife suggested I bring my running shoes and do some laps around the massive parking lot while waiting for the SLOW charge! (In her words!)

xradr | August 18, 2013

like with the other SC's I think they will update/upgrade as they get some usage data. I suspect fremont will be quite busy as there are several thousand MS's in the penninsula and east bay.

Fortunately, they have hundreds of parking spots open at NUMI. There are rows for at least 20-30 more stalls along the bushes. | August 18, 2013

A couple of notes - Tesla tops up new cars over at the Service center with NEMA 240V power, not superchargers. They have a huge row of these chargers (maybe 30+). The final prep for all cars is done over there as well. They do have at least one Supercharger inside the factory, but it's used for confirmation that the charging system is working and not for charging. My guess is the battery pack is near fully charged when it is first assembled inside the factory.

I suspect the delivery specialist were demonstrating to new customers how Superchargers work, but perhaps a car didn't get fully charged. I agree, it would be nice if they didn't use them when others are waiting.

For those going to a Supercharger - to get the quickest charge pick a stall where the adjacent stall is empty that is labeled with the same number. At the top of the Supercharger is a number/letter like 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, etc. If Stall 1A is in use, and 2A/2B are empty, pick 2A or 2B, but not 1B, as 1B may be quite a bit slower until the car in 1A is charged. Each pair is powered by a single set of electronics. With two cars, the power is split where the first car that connects of the pair gets priority for the fastest charge.

SUN 2 DRV | August 18, 2013

I'm amazed at the folks here who think Tesla doesn't have the right to use TESLA'S SuperChargers in any way they see fit!

The SuperChargers at Tesla's factory are obviously installed WITHIN a metropolitan area vs all the others that are installed BETWEEN metropolitan areas. The others are to facilitate long distance travel. The ones at the Tesla factory are obviously intended for a different purpose, and with SOOOO many Teslas in the area as well as passing through I think everyone should assume that they will be constantly very busy.

TommyBoy | August 18, 2013

I have family in San Jose. I live in Southern California. When I'm visiting them I would like to be able to head over to the Fremont facility, stay an hour and gain 100 miles of range to drive around San Jose for the next couple of days. I sure don't want to head all the way to Gilroy to SuperCharge.

Sure I could find somebody with a NEMA 14-50 in their garage, or an L2 charger, but then I'd have to kill 3-4 hours to get that 100 miles and when I'm up there visiting time is valuable.

All I'm saying is that it would be nice to use the Fremont SuperChargers to charge when I'm up there visiting and it wouldn't be fun to be in a line of factory pick-ups and locals topping off.

I agree that Tesla should be able to do whatever it darn well pleases on their own property with their own SuperChargers.

SUN 2 DRV | August 18, 2013

TB: Yes, using the Fremont SuperChargers would be very convenient for the many thousands of Tesla owners and visitors in the area. Plan accordingly.

TommyBoy | August 18, 2013

You bring up an interesting point. It might be fascinating to go down the line at the Fremont SuperCharger when full and ask each owner where they are visiting from.

I wonder if you'd find a lot of factory pickups, locals from the Bay Area, or people from out of town.

I guess it really doesn't matter. SuperChargers at no cost were always an advertised benefit of owning a Tesla and there's a whole thread on the etiquette of who should have dibs on the chargers.

RedShift | August 18, 2013

I charged at 1B with everything else occupied. I drew 140 mph at the peak, beginning with around 85 miles of charge, so I don't know why some are reporting lower rates. Mine is a 60.

According to a Tesla person who I spoke with at the ribbon cutting event, this supercharger was mainly done for 'publicity' since it shows off these to others visiting the factory, as well as news generated by the opening ceremony itself. "They also help those who live nearby by not having to make trips to Gilroy for supercharging." (His words)

AirForce462 | August 18, 2013

@joehuber my intent was to state the charging conditions so that long distance travelers can plan accordingly. I would not presume to tell TM how it can or can not utilize its resources, but resorting to feigned outrage is just juvenile. You must admit that the use of the scare resources in a wasteful manner is sad. In an emergency there are other charging options at TM Fremont such as HPWC on the other end of the building, they also have some 220 plugs near there. Lets not resort to name calling or discourteous dialog, this is a forum to discuss the tesla lifestyle. All opinions matter and are relavent.

SUN 2 DRV | August 18, 2013

TB: This is also a good example of why I feel the SuperChargers should NOT be free. I think it's a great for publicity, but free SuperCharging distorts the economic reality and isn't a scalable solution. SuperCharging will get ever more awkward and unpredictable as more and more Teslas hit the roads.

Fundamental economics should cause the price of something to vary so that Supply = Demand. This makes it economically worthwhile to offer a supply of a good or service that matches the demand.

Free SuperCharging is a completely artificial situation. Because it's free, the demand will completely outstrip the supply. What ECONOMIC incentive is there for Tesla to build enough SuperChargers to match demand? None. Certainly there are other incentives such as great publicity, customer satisfaction and good will, etc. But no direct economic drivers for them to build enough SuperChargering capacity to match demand for a free service.

Why should it be less expensive to charge at an SC than at home? This simply attracts the local crowd to stop off at an SC on the way home from work.

Would not a long distance MS traveler welcome paying for a fast charge if it meant there would be a charging station available and he wouldn't have to wait?

Wouldn't MS drivers be more inclined to move their cars more quickly when finished charging IF there was a per minute fee for parking in the charging stall?

Asking SC users to have good etiquette is a weak approach to sharing the limited SC resources. Especially when there are straight forward economic incentives we're all familiar with.

Pay for what you use, kWh consumed and minutes parked in a charging stall. Very similar to cell phone data usage and minute charges.

Locals would no longer be incentivized to use SC resources. And I'll bet the etiquette of long distance MS drivers would improve too.

Free SuperCharging is not the blessing it may first appear to be, if it's not conveniently available when you need it. | August 18, 2013


I would disagree that there is no economic incentive for SuperChargers. In the near term, they remove a barrier to entry for EV buyers. Almost everyone asks me if I can drive to LA in my MS and they are surprised when I say yes. I would argue the number one challenge to EV adoption is range anxiety (real or not) and the SC network puts that to bed. This translates to more Tesla sales.

Second, the SC network becomes a competitive advantage for Tesla in the long run which can drive additional revenue and help them maintain pricing power.


mdemetri | August 18, 2013

Occupying SC spaces when not charging, especially when other are waiting, is wrong even if it is Tesla doing it. Tesla cannot have it both ways: either these are public SC and available to all or they should have a non-public SC for demos etc. If public, they have a duty to their customers to not waste such a valuable resource. For those traveling, having to wait hours with screaming kids etc while someone occupies a SC space while not charging is an experience that I would not wish on my worst enemy.

Tesla SC are always going to remain free, at least while Elon is in charge. Elon has stated this time and time again.

However, this does not mean there should not be for profit SC. As I have said on other threads, Tesla should license out the technology to a 3rd party who could develop a for profit SC network in cities and other destinations. I certainly would be more than happy to pay for quick SC availability while traveling.

Tâm | August 18, 2013

I don't know what's the plan in Fremont, but in Hawthorne, as pictured, only the far left (with the display lit up inside) out of the 4 cars in 4 active bays was a private car. The other 3 were Tesla's demos or for deliveries.

Public drivers just need to tell the reception to move their cars and they would gladly vacate the bays for you.

jjaeger | August 18, 2013

If you think Gilroy was crowded - just watch this puppy. And at the risk of bringing on the ire - my guess is it will be drowned with local/staying-local cars, as opposed to those getting a charge on a trek through the bay area. As joehuber noted - will be 'convenient' to many 1000's of cars. Let the good times begin...

negarholger | August 18, 2013

At least the locals can't get lost in the shops or movie theater.

Tylyoung | August 18, 2013

I think is about being courteous, being ICED is one thing, (signage should be in place to prevent this from occurring) but being BEV BLOCKED is another, especially by another Tesla Model S!

As with any supercharger, once the car is done charging, courteously move it from the supercharger spot to make the supercharging spot available for another.

Courteously leave a phone number on the dash and approximate time the car will have enough energy in it for you to vacate the spot and be on your way.

There is everything right with being courteous to one another!!

Brian H | August 18, 2013

If the locals are smarter than rutabagas, they won't bother trying to drive to Fremont and wait behind each other in line to save $3. Much less than minimum wage for the time it requires. Home charging is far more convenient for local driving.

jjaeger | August 18, 2013

Right - and Gilroy is packed because of this infallible logic. Try again.

negarholger | August 18, 2013

Gilroy is packed because there are 4000 cars north of it and Gilroy is the only option for the weekend travel south.
North you have no charging options, so deciding where to go on a weekend escaping the heat is only Monterey / Carmel. Coming from the North Bay or Sacramento you need Gilroy. If there would be a SC north of SF then the weekend traffic would split due to options.

negarholger | August 18, 2013

Look at it from another perspective
ICE cars per gas station : 200M divided by 120k ~ 1500 cars per gas station
MS per SC : 15k divided by 18 ~ 800 MS per SC
Gilroy : 4k divided by 1 = 4k MS per SC
Fremont cuts it down to 2k, Salinas to 1.3k,... but you need more options to get to a healthy level.

negarholger | August 18, 2013

To support Brians point... we are going to my wifes parents about twice a months and passing by Fremont. The trip costs us $8 (vs $40 in an ICE). RT is 200 miles and so no need to stop. Would I consider to stop for half an hour to recover $4-$6 ? No - not in a million years.

keichhor | August 18, 2013

OK, tried again tonight. Was the only MS there 9ish, and the charging rate went up to 163 miles/hour. Very happy.

Regarding charging... I don't care who is charging, just please do not leave car plugged in for extending periods of time and just leave.

Tesla, thanks for the SC! I don't need it (ie. saving 3$ doesn't make my day) but I will use it unless there is someone waiting for it.

AirForce462 | August 19, 2013

I used it this morning and at peak I received around 236 mph. I was only MS there, I only used it due to my long range commute and nowhere to charge during the week. I never leave the vehicle when charging so if others need it I can be courteous and move.

RedShift | August 19, 2013

+1 Brian.

It costs so less to charge at home late at night, that I have decided not to charge there unless in some emergency. Also, I want to be smarter than a rutabaga.

greenmachine1 | August 19, 2013

It might not be so bad, because my guess is that the majority of the owners are on the pennisula side, and won't make the trip to the East Bay to charge. Maybe some of the Tesla employees will use the chargers. Do Tesla employees get a discount on the cars?

LuvTesla | August 19, 2013

I have never charged on a supercharger before, though i can with my 85. I am not sure if the supercharger in fremont was intended to be used the same way as Gilroy's. My guess is this is mostly for delivery and maybe just to say there is one there.

I agree that all superchargers should not be used as a parking lot, by Tesla nor by owners. Etiquette is just making sure you are charging while parked. We should not be expecting anything from anyone in terms of going ahead because you are a long distance traveler or a local that needs a quick top-up. Expectations spawn ire and not everyone share the same expectations. If only we adhere to this rule then it doesn't matter where you come from, its just a matter of one owner waiting for a charge. If you really need a charge, then ask nicely and wait for good graces, rather than rant about your time.

Everyone paid to have access to this resource and everyone has the right to use them, local or not local. If someone enjoys waiting in line, let them be. I think those people just want to see fellow owners and kill time, which is perfectly fine.

I kinda am tired for one of seeing people complain about the superchargers. I haven't used one, but at this point am not looking forward to if the guy before me is unhappy about waiting. So hopefully we can change the thinking for people and just be courteous but non assuming.

tesown | August 19, 2013

+1 on @LuvTesla.

Everybody paid for this resource and should have access to it.

The access needs to be fair and that's it in my opinion.

jbunn | August 19, 2013

Unfortunately, if you are going between San Francisco and LA (which the Hyperloop document states is the busiest California corridor), even with the Fremont location, you STILL need to go through Gilroy. No other major route to get to I-5 South.

negarholger | August 19, 2013

actually Fremont - Harris 580/I5 is the better route - only 4 miles longer then 152/I5 and probably faster.

Dramsey | August 19, 2013

Look at it from another perspective
ICE cars per gas station : 200M divided by 120k ~ 1500 cars per gas station
MS per SC : 15k divided by 18 ~ 800 MS per SC
Gilroy : 4k divided by 1 = 4k MS per SC
Fremont cuts it down to 2k, Salinas to 1.3k,... but you need more options to get to a healthy level.

From still another perspective:

-- Time an ICE car spends filling the tank: 3-4 minutes
-- Time a Mod S spends: 30-60 minutes

So you need many fewer "cars per station" to reach the level of utility you have with a gas station.

hillcountryfun | August 19, 2013

Good point Dramsey...

But I would suggest that since Tesla SCers are used almost exclusively for city to city (or long distance) driving that you need to know how many gas stations are positioned similar to SCs. And then from there you can determine the long term ModelS/SC needed ratio. I would guess that 10-20% of the existing 120,000 gas stations are positioned between cities on highway/long distance routes. From there we'd need the average number of vehicles that travel between those cities on a daily bases. And finally we can calculate a current ICE/Gas Station ratio that would need to be matched by the Tesla Superchargers.

Kind of lengthy...hope that makes sense -

Dramsey | August 19, 2013

hillcountryfun-- Oh, yeah. I hadn't thought about that.

Most of the time, most Teslas will be "filled up" at the owner's home, whereas ICE cars must use a gas station. So the average load will be much less, overall.

negarholger | August 19, 2013

- ICEs don't have home fueling.

Don't take the gas station / SC comparison too serious - it was just to feel out the order of magnitude.

At gas stations cars also have to wait for a pump, but nobody gets upset because cars don't park at the pump to watch a movie.

Brian H | August 19, 2013

Right. The ICE cars need so many more stations because they can't fill up at home! Poor thangs.

Bob W | August 19, 2013

@TommyBoy wrote: "I have family in San Jose. I live in Southern California. When I'm visiting them I would like to be able to head over to the Fremont facility, stay an hour and gain 100 miles of range to drive around San Jose for the next couple of days."

Please ask someone in your family to take a picture of the dryer outlet. Many (most) homes in San Jose have a dryer outlet in the garage, usually a NEMA 10-30 (or if the house was built after 1996, a NEMA 14-30). 24A @ 238V (5.7 kW), good enough for most overnight charging, certainly adequate to get 100 miles of range.

Buy the appropriate Tesla adapter online or at the service center, and maybe an long RV type extension cord, and you should be all set to recharge at your family's house when you get here, no need to go to Fremont whatsoever (there's not much to do while you're charging there).

Tâm | August 20, 2013


I agree!

I hate the tortuous, one-lane, hilly road way CA-152 from Gilroy to Harris Ranch.

It's fine for a scenic tour, but not when you are in a hurry.

Jolinar | August 20, 2013

few points to consider:

- EVs needs recharge on the road in much less occasions than ICE b/c usually recharge at home.

- How often is it? 5% of the time? So you need only 1/20 of SC stalls vs gas station stalls...

- However since EVs recharge 10-20x slower than ICEs you need that SC number of stalls multiply by 10-20x to accomodate same number of EVs as ICEs (in the long run if technology of recharging doesn't change).

- CHAdeMO and/or Combo CCS adapters will be needed in the long run (3+ years is my guess).

- Elon and Tesla said SCs are "free" for life for Model S and Model X, but never mentioned GenIII. Model S 85kWh has SC usage build into its price in similar way as other CapEx like factory cost or service centers cost.

- I'd be much surprised if that "free" element stays for GenIII, b/c it increase purchase price and GenIII will focus on lowering that as much as possible.

- While I like the free part of SC, I think Tesla could charge users who stays at SC after charging was completed (like for normal parking spot). Probably not in the near term, but it could happen with more cars on the road.

Brian H | August 20, 2013

Yes, he's been asked about GenIII and subsequent models, and has stated all Teslas will charge free at SCs for life.

rd2 | August 20, 2013

Musk has indeed said GenIII will charge for free, as Brian H said.

I am concerned that local Model S owners are abusing SC stations for their daily local commutes, instead of charging at home. I think this is rather cheap and inconsiderate of the actual long-distance travel for which they were intended.

It sounds like the Gilroy crowding issue was primarily because of this, and the new 101 SCs have alleviated the problem for now. But it will probably continue to be an issue as more are sold in the Bay Area.

Does anyone have any data about how often they are being used in this way? I think Tesla is working on finding out. I was charging at Gilroy on a long-distance trip a few weeks back, and noticed a Tesla employee charting all the cars that were arriving/departing. Could easily have been for other purposes, but that may be a way to find out, if the same 15 cars are charging there every day.

Brian H | August 20, 2013

Consider the logistics. If a local has say 40 mi. commute/day, how can it be worth his time to use a SC to refill, in addition to his normal time to drive home and plug in? Makes no sense in terms of time, money, or hassle.

Jolinar | August 20, 2013

@Brian H, rd2

Can you provide a link? I am not saying I don't believe you, but really want to verify such important statement... Never heard about it.

Model S buyers don't care as much about home electricity saving as GenIII owners will. So I'd expect more usage of SC by GenIII cars than GenII resulting in bigger cost per car for GenIII.

We won't know for sure at least 3 more years.

GeekEV | August 20, 2013

If Tesla wants to reserve these SuperChargers for delivery of vehicles, they should NOT have advertised their opening...

jillalameda | August 20, 2013

The thing about Fremont as opposed to Gilroy is THERE IS NOTHING TO DO THERE. It was hot (all SCs should have shade awnings, in my opinion), and if the Tesla sales office hadn't been open it would have been quite unbearable on Saturday when I stopped in on the way back from visiting my mom.

Unless there is something to do while they wait, there is no reason for people to leave their cars at SCs any longer than necessary for a charge. That's the problem with Gilroy, I think; it's too easy to spend hours in the outlets.

The ideal SC would have a restroom and maybe a small air-conditioned place for fast snacks nearby, and nothing else. That would solve the problem of people leaving their cars in the bays when they're done charging, and would make charging an unattractive option for the "locals" people seem to be so concerned about (unless the locals live within walking distance of the SC, I suppose).

rd2 | August 20, 2013

Jolinar - the Gilroy topic is being discussed in more detail here:
(search for Gilroy in the thread)

It's an ongoing debate it seems, but at least one local admits on the forum to charging for that purpose. And if there's one, there are likely quite a few more. If these owners live in or within 30-40 miles of Gilroy, and the SC is on your way home every day, I would not put it past them to stop and charge there.

Musk commented on the 'Gilroy issue' at the last shareholder meeting, and said that additional charging stalls would help, but also that the 101 SCs would offload the traffic. Hopefully that is the case.

jbunn | August 20, 2013

We are also going to need some East Bay/I5 corridor chargers as well, because right now SF to LA drains right past Gilroy if you are on the peninsula.

If Gen III will be free forever, they better be building superchargers like Starbuck stores. Right now we have what? 15,000 Model S max? In a year or so they will be clicking over to 40K per year. PLUS the ones already on the road. Before Gen III comes out we might have 80,000 cars on the road? 100,000? And Gen III will add 200,000 more every year?

Whooo doggies! The future is coming fast, and I for one am glad for it, but the issues we have in Gilroy are going to be nothing compared to what we are going to see in another year or two.

Does it make sense see some point in the future when we partner with major gas station chains and say, "we put panels on your roof, and sell you the extra power. You give us space for a charger or two. And drivers will buy your crappy snacks, which is where you made most of your money anyway."

Sequential Biofuels in Eugene Oregon is a good model. They are built on an old gas station toxic site, which was cleaned up and repurposed. They have dedicated Roadster charging. And really, really good snacks.

Brian H | August 20, 2013

Locals, by definition, live close. The amount they can charge/save is thus small. Why would they bother?

mdemetri | August 20, 2013

Brian H

The same reason why many wait in huge lines at Costco to save a few pennies a gallon. Do not underestimate the cheapness of the few who can ruin it for the many.

This may be a small problem now as those who can afford a ~100K car are likely to value their time more, but wait until gen III comes on board. It is just going to get worse.

mlehms | August 20, 2013

Went today 10a. Only car there. Was there 30m got 120 miles of charge

Bob W | August 20, 2013

@rd2 wrote: "Does anyone have any data about how often they are being used in this way? I think Tesla is working on finding out. I was charging at Gilroy on a long-distance trip a few weeks back, and noticed a Tesla employee charting all the cars that were arriving/departing."

First, how do you know he was a Tesla employee?

Yes, Tesla already knows exactly when and where every model S is charged, and they know where the registered owner lives (or they can figure it out). They already know which charger is in use via remote access, no need to send an employee on site for any reason other to observe traffic congestion and parking space usage (in non-charging spots).

At the Menlo Park coffee two months ago, the Product Marketing Manager told me they had noticed (from the logs I assume) that some owners never charge at home, only at SuperChargers. They were obviously surprised and concerned by this, as it was not part of the original planning.

There are many possible explanations for why someone could only charge at a SuperCharger, some valid ("I live in an apartment and now they tell me the will not put in an outlet for me"), some not ("I don't have time to clean out my garage and install a 14-50, it's just too much hassle.")