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Is FSD worth it for EAP customer ?

Is FSD worth it for EAP customer ?

Got my M3 in April 2018 w/ EAP.

I'm unable to decide if the FSD is worth the $3k-$4k premium over and above the $5k I paid for EAP. Per my understanding what I will get (in addition to EAP) is the following:

- NOA on surface streets, not everywhere though...
- Traffic light & stop sign detection and obeying
- Lane change & making turns to Navigate to destination

*** M3 will still require hands on the steering wheel***

Did I miss any thing?

Anyone else in the same dilemma ?

What would FSD need to have for you to be willing to pay the premium?

Joshan | January 15, 2020

My understanding is that EAP will not have the items you listed, except the 3rd one while on highways.

I had EAP and bought FSD when it was $2. So far I have no value for it, but I am confident I will this year.

Joshan | January 15, 2020

oops sorry I misread. Your list is correct.

Joshan | January 15, 2020

ya ya 3rd post in a row. Will also include and hardware upgrades required to get to that point. Right now that is HW3.

Prashanthsharma | January 15, 2020

@Joshan, per my understanding HW3 has no impact on EAP performance, except traffic light visualization and the like.

Also, HW3 is included if someone buys FSD, so there is no additional cost to it. Hence for the purpose of this discussion its irrelevant

That said, my original question still stands... Do people feel FSD is worth the premium over EAP?.

sroh | January 15, 2020

I don't like buying vaporware, especially $4K vaproware. There are currently no practical use cases, so I am refraining from upgrading for now. I recognize I'll probably pay more by waiting. But who really knows when the software is going to be of value. We might end up trading one of our Model 3s for a Model Y for example. In the meantime, EAP continues to improve.

Sgwebb.us | January 15, 2020

If you want to use EAP on city streets it is. If you are happy with Highway only then I guess not.
I debated this for a long time as well, as I do most of my driving on the highway, but when the price feel from 6k to 3k , I got it, mostly because the highway on my way to work is starting to be bumper to bumper traffic at all times, and they are expanding our city to the other side of the highway, which will only make it worse, I think at that point the city streets will be faster, and then FSD will be fully worth it for me.

sheldon.mike1010 | January 15, 2020

Depends on on how you'll keep the car. If short term, then No.
If keeping for awhile, buying FSD will get you the updated V3 hardware and all future self driving software
additions. Worth it for sure.

Prashanthsharma | January 15, 2020

@sroh - I'm in your camp. Thats why I did not pay for vaporware and am still not convinced FSD will ever be of any real value.

If they dont handle all/most situations then people will continually have to takeover. Thats not FSD. It migth be years before its meaningfully effective.

Joshan | January 15, 2020

sounds like you already made up your mind to me. Anyone asking an honest question about this would not keep saying vaporware.

bddaughe | January 15, 2020

You saying FSD isn't worth it until the car can do everything by itself is about like saying a computer isn't helpful unless it has full AI. But for years, computers have helped make people's lives easier. So to me the incremental journey towards FSD is completely worth it as every iteration makes life a little bit easier. Even if I don't get to full FSD where I never have to intervene, I'll still count it worth it.

andy.connor.e | January 15, 2020

Here is my 2-cents from what i've taken from these forums.

If you are going to own the car for 5 years or more, its worth it. Features will only become more available as time goes on that brings "FSD" closer to its 100% reality like how summon got released late last year. The price will only increase over time. If you are going to sell your car in say 2 years, then i'd say no because chances are *More than likely* that you will not own the car long enough to actually experience what you're paying for.

Others feel free to chime in about why im wrong.

bddaughe | January 15, 2020

Well, I also was able to get in when it was only $2,000. So, that probably helps my feeling it is worth it

EAPme | January 15, 2020

FOMO is real, even more so with a Tesla.

I vacillated over pulling the trigger when FSD was only $2K and opted to wait despite knowing that the price would increase.

I'm happy with the EAP features that I currently have (NoA, Summon, etc.) and will gladly fork over the money once FSD features come to fruition. Whether that's 4k, 5k , or more, is a "gamble" I'm willing to take.

rdavis | January 15, 2020

or take that $ 4,000 and invest it in TSLA stock. When/If they actually release FSD the stock price would take off and you'd be able afford to upgrade to FSD or even just buy a new car ;) To me, that would be a better bet than buying the vaporware now because you're worried of price increases... just saying....

andy.connor.e | January 15, 2020

i like the rdavis approach. But once FSD is available in its entirety, the price will be worth it no matter what if you choose to participate in the ride sharing. It will pay for itself in a year.

rdavis | January 15, 2020

^^^^^^

As an example, TSLA stock was at 252.48 April 2nd... $4k put into that stock at that point would be worth just north of $8k today... and if they actually release a FSD I would expect the stock to double again...

If they go broke... you're no worse off than pre-paying for FSD and not getting anything for it. So I don't really see a down side.

rdavis | January 15, 2020

^^^ I should say April 2 2018 when you got your car.

Magic 8 Ball | January 15, 2020

"Is it worth it" FUD.

Gregbphillips | January 15, 2020

Looks like FSD is $7K when ordering FSD on a M3 long range model. To me, that is too much given the uncertainty about how long one would keep this car in a market where technological innovation may soon render the car obsolete or the big manufacturers start really competing with Tela, driving prices down.

Gregbphillips | January 15, 2020

Looks like FSD is $7K when ordering FSD on a M3 long range model. To me, that is too much given the uncertainty about how long one would keep this car in a market where technological innovation may soon render the car obsolete or the big manufacturers start really competing with Tela, driving prices down.

Joshan | January 15, 2020

Gregbphillips | January 15, 2020
r the big manufacturers start really competing with Tela, driving prices down.

You made some sense until this line. Than you blew it all up.

DuckDuckEv | January 15, 2020

Was on EAP for an year, Bought the FSD for $2k on promo. So far nothing but regrets, Hope to see some value out of it in 2020.

spuzzz123 | January 15, 2020

Prashanthsharma And DuckDuck. Depends on how long you keep your car.

It’s a gamble. BUT isnt it fairly safe? Let’s say Tesla does actually deliver a self driving car during the useful life of of your model 3. Holy chit you just got a 24x7 chauffeur for a one time cost. The price of fsd instantly shoots above $10k or a hefty subscription price. Bargain.

Let’s say Tesla fails to deliver anything substantial in the next 5 years. Willing to bet a rebate or at the very least a significant discount on your next Tesla purchase will be in order.

Feels like a safe bet

Prashanthsharma | January 15, 2020

@DuckDuckEv: Yes, as of today FSD is vaporware. What I mean is that today EAP = FSD, zero difference except for some traffic light visualization. But that is today.

What I am trying to decide is at what will FSD need to be capable of doing before it becomes worth it to pay $3k-$4k for it.

bddaughe | January 15, 2020

@Prashanth, you're forgetting another big difference. You get a computer upgrade with FSD. That isn't zero

DuckDuckEv | January 15, 2020

@spuzzz - Yes, I believe FSD will be valuable in the future, I've added it to my Model Y pre-order as well. Regrets as the EAP would be good enough on my m3, with the purchase of Y with FSD.

vmulla | January 15, 2020
Prashanthsharma | January 15, 2020

@bddaughe - Actually, HW3 is a zero for EAP customers. HW3 has no impact on EAP performance and features. It matters only for FSD customers.

bddaughe | January 15, 2020

@Prashanth, you said EAP=FSD, zero difference except visualizations. I'm saying..nope you forgot that FSD also gets a computer upgrade, which has several things including quicker response times and full redundancy of all components. I'm not trying to argue, but am trying to make sure statements you make are correct so as not to confuse others.

tdwin2000 | January 15, 2020

I picked up my new RWD LR in August 2018. Love the car. I have EAP. Looking back now, it was a bargain compared to today. What I don't understand is this. I realize that FSD was on a "special pricing" at $2,000 for about a few weeks around March of 2019. Then it went up to $3,000 for a really long period of time. However, I really can't see the value in buying it at all when I have pretty much all the same features that it comes with (except the one, FSD, that might not ever get regulatory approval in some areas). So again, is it worth it? To me NO. And, what I don't get is if we all paid $5000 already for EAP and all we really need is the new hardware (which comes standard on all new 2019 and 2020 cars since about April 2019) why should we pay $4000 now? New car buyers get the whole package for $7000. So, it seems like $2,000 as an upgrade should be the price for EAP owners. And to me, to be able to see traffic cones and the colors of a traffic light now don't justify spending an additional $4000. When and if the FSD arrives only then will I consider upgrading (price might be really high by then but my feeling is Tesla always has some sort of special they run for a limited time when they need their sales numbers or revenue numbers to increase). And, I'm not bashing Tesla. Love the car, love the company (would like to see a few more service centers opening up). TSLA stockholder since 2013 at $55/share. It's going to be my retirement one day.

pavanforest | January 16, 2020

I’m on same boat few weeks ago. Then said myself never mind.
When I brought my car in Dec 2018, I brought EAP by thought of I got FSD, as that time looks like they only offered EAP and paid 5k for it. So for I felt it’s worth that money.
Recently when Tesla released upgrade options in app then I realized FSD is different from EAP. If they offered FSD at the moment when I brought my car I defiantly got it, as when I purchased my car I was like ALL IN except performance package, as I was happy with dual monitors performance.
Why I didn’t brought it?!
1) it’s costs 4k, instead of 2k. If I order the same configuration as my car, after an year, I can get the same car with FSD and total is less than 3k I have paid for it.
2) I felt like I ripped off by not knowing that I didn’t brought FSD at purchase time and sales rep said I will get hardware upgrade when it’s avail, so I believed my self I got FSD.
3) I got most of my requirements on EAP, let’s say for now. :)

alexchuang | January 16, 2020

To me, if you have HW2.5 or HW2 even, the hardware upgrade justifies the price especially when autonomous city street driving comes out. But I have a feeling the price of FSD will go up another $3k when this occurs.

vmulla | January 16, 2020

"But I have a feeling the price of FSD will go up another $3k when this occurs."@alexchuang

If it does I'm just not going to upgrade - at some point, the wallet will say 'enough no more upgrades'

Joshan | January 16, 2020

will affect resale value huge if you don't IMO. The more FSD prices raises the more your car devalues.

Joshan | January 16, 2020

Let me explain that more clearly.

You are looking to buy a used model 3 and have 2 options..

Car 1: 50k miles, HW2.5 and no FSD cost 35k

Car 2: 50k miles, HW3 and FSD cost 42k

FSD costs 10k at this point to add. Which car are you buying?

vmulla | January 16, 2020

@Joshan,
The resale value will be affected only as much as the difference in upgrade costs between now and the time of sale. Also, that comes into play only if the car is sold.
Hey, I'd love to get the upgrade, but I need to consider my means, payoff (long and short term) and other competing factors in my life. For anyone in my situation, I'd think they'll just hold off because there are no significant benefits that can be had in the short term.

andy.connor.e | January 16, 2020

If you choose to use the ride sharing, the price of FSD will be irrelevant unless you live in an area with little to no demand for cabs.

SalisburySam | January 16, 2020

I bought FSD with my car back in 04/18; cost was $8k because you had to buy EAP as a prerequisite. Didn’t care too much about what functionality was actually delivered as I expected more and more features over time. I was “betting on the come” as they say. Lots of goodies have been OTA-delivered since then enhancing EAP, and the biggest benefit to FSD remains the hardware upgrade when my VIN (33xxx) comes up on the Tesla scheduling lottery. Still betting more features will be introduced and my vehicle will be outfitted to receive and use them. No regrets.

Gregbphillips | January 16, 2020

@Joshan: trolling types of comments aren’t very helpful. I was speculating. You are welcome to provide an alternate opinion without the snide remarks.

Joshan | January 16, 2020

Make some sense and I wont make a snide comment. If you are waiting for the "big automakers" to push Tesla... your going to be waiting a long time. They have no interest it seems in new technology, just keeping the status quo.

vmulla | January 16, 2020

@Joshan,
Here's the situation if I were to sell, and I'll use your numbers.
Car 1: 50k miles, HW3 and FSD cost 42k
Car 2: 50k miles, HW2.5 with EAP cost 38K (4K difference in price to upgrade)
Car 3: 50k miles, HW3 with EAP cost 38K+ (HW3 must account for some value over HW2.5)

I need to see some immediate benefit to upgrading NOW, and that's the core discussion of the thread - what if any are the immediate benefits for EAP owner (especially if they are on HW3) - I cannot let the fear of cost increases drive my decisions because I have competing needs for the money - it isn't purely an investment decision.

Joshan | January 16, 2020

@vmulla I get it, its not the right choice for everyone. I was just providing a counterpoint. It will not be true for everyone out there, but it will for many.

lessrandom | January 16, 2020

It is worth it to me just to watch Tesla work out how to do FSD. As a swdev that’s a big price to pay to watch history in the making but I don’t care, it’s historic and I want to watch it live. So far I’m quite entertained but the phantom cones in the rain, missing people etc are getting old and hoping they do some big improvements soon. In any case I am getting the show I paid for so hats off for Tesla. This is never going to happen again.

Gregbphillips | January 16, 2020

@Joshan:

It makes more sense to me that the big manufacturers will continue to gradually improve and expand upon their EV offerings. Tesla deserves the credit for this.

I am not waiting on anything except whether it’s financially worthwhile to purchase an EV instead of, say, a hybrid. For now and our driving situation, it isn’t. I would like our next purchase to be an EV, and I think Tesla is the most attractive, advanced, and feature-reach EV in the current market. We will just have to disagree — civilly I hope — about how that market will change over the next few years.

Joshan | January 16, 2020

@Gregbphillips totally agree with your last post. I only disagreed with the one line, which seems more like a pipe dream at this point. Case in point:

https://jalopnik.com/bmw-says-itll-make-gas-engines-for-at-least-30-more...

Gregbphillips | January 16, 2020

@Joshan:

Fair enough, and thanks for the link.

Pepperidge | January 16, 2020

If you would like to be a witness of the progress of self driving, which could be once in lifetime event, yes.

bradbomb | January 16, 2020

@vmulla I don’t think your #3 can exist. EAP stopped existing as a product on March 1st, 2019 and was switched to the AP+FSD model instead. No car with EAP only should have HW3 since HW3 started shipping in cars mid-April 2019. Any car that has HW3 should have either AP or FSD. Maybe you meant to write AP instead of EAP.

vmulla | January 16, 2020

@bradbomb, good point.
I meant EAP - AP vs FSD is a very different conversation because there are several useful features if someone is considering upgrading from AP to FSD, not as much when upgrading from EAP to FSD.

Joshan | January 16, 2020

Further supporting my argument you are devaluing your car faster than people with FSD. Everytime the price of FSD goes up your car loses value and mine gains value.

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