What do you think about the latest letter from Tesla?
Very happy with GB's communication cadence and content as of late. The next two weeks I think we'll start to see very in depth Sig owner reviews and hope they are in line with the product that TM knows it's making.
Yes. Nice update, little tidbits. Supercharger network is the next big thing to announce, can't wait for the details, I can almost smell the coffee brewing...
100? We need 100 a week!
Azdcmoney, I am not worried about that. They gave guidance about their productivity well ahead of time, and they're still on track based on what they have said.
If December hits, and the number of deliveries is not in the thousands, then I'll be worried. But for now, they're doing what they said they would do.
As a Canadian Sig holder, I love the hint:
Hint: Canadian Signature reservation holders should be on the lookout for an important email coming this week ☺
"All Canadian Sig deliveries, for our convenience, have been consolidated to the first week of 2013."
Did you all see the video from Inside Line (the link was embedded in the blog). It showed the Performance Model S 0-60 in 4.3 seconds! Also, skidpad was an amazing 0.86g (amazing for such a large heavy car). Braking was also very good.
Here's the link to the Inside Line video and short write up....
Also 1 ft rolling start of 0-60 in 4.0 s. I don't know how experts judge that though.
This review is the first time I've seen the 1 ft rolling test done. I have no context to determine whether this 4.0s is a good time, but have to assume it is.
@Azdcmoney ... +1 Agreed 100 per week sounds good to me !!
The 1' rolling start overcomes the reverse Zeno's paradox that says that going from 0 to any speed requires an instant of infinite acceleration! Or, more prosaically, the moment required to "break" all the static friction surface contacts that need to be kinetic friction/sliding.
It also prevents any launch control shenanigans. A BMW M5 can do 0-60 in 3.7 seconds with launch control but it requires 4.6 seconds with a rolling start (typically shown as 5-60).
Wonder why the M5 has such a faster quarter mile time then at 11.8 from some drivers.
It's faster. Model S, even performance version, start to lose acceleration at high speeds due to loss of motor torque at high RPM:s.
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 12.6 @ 108.3 (12.6 @ 108.2 w/ TC on) is still rather impressive, Roadster Sport quartermile is 12.643 @ 102.89 even that it is much lighter car (taken from NEDRA record holders). Model S Performance accelerates faster at the higher speeds, so it gets same time even that it loses at the initial acceleration.
Reminder thread: http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/ev-racing-against-ice-not?page=1
Just like I predicted. Faster speed at speed trap, but hard to tell which gets faster time. Unfortunately Model S is also heavier than I expected, so it's a bit closer to Roadster than what I thought it would. Had it been 4000lbs difference would have been even clearer.
Timo, exactly. The Model S Performance's top speed is 130 mph, the M5's tops speed is usually limited to 155 mph, but it can go 190 mph if unlimited. The M5 clearly looses to the Model S below highway speed, but at and above highway speed it has a clear advantage.
Actually, the Model S also has enough power to go beyond 130 mph, but it doesn't have gears so speed is limited by motor RPM (as Timo points out). Assuming there was a gear-shift solution for the Model S (which is a heated debate in its own right) then the competition with the M5 would be much closer or possibly even in favor of the Model S.
The mind quails at the thought of the clutch stress required to take a Model S motor at high revs down to, say, 2/3 the number. Maybe an electronically "meshed" de-rev to keep it tolerable could work.
@Volker.Berlin The M5 clearly looses to the Model S below highway speed, but at and above highway speed it has a clear advantage.
Actually, considering that M5 accelerates to 60 in just 3.7 seconds using launch control it is faster at low speed as well. I think it is just that highway speed where Model S has advantage (not yet losing torque), but rapidly loses that advantage when you go above it.
400HP would be enough to go quite a bit faster than 130mph (more like 200mph or so), but unfortunately it isn't even close to 400HP at 14000 RPM (motor power measured at the axle is combination of RPM and torque). I don't think Model S could actually go much faster than 130, maybe 150 would be top speed where air drag & other losses equals motor power. You would really need that second gear to go any faster.
I think Model S has exceptional acceleration just where you really need it: at passing slower cars in highway. I believe it is quite a bit faster than any $100k road-legal car there. That is what makes me want it more than anything else.
Has anyone noticed that when you compare the Model S and other cars have their traction controls on, the model S is just about the quickest car out there. It even gives the Nissan GTR, and Bentley Continental GT V8 a run for their money up to 75 mph. Then look at braking and handling. How many of us are good enough drivers to beat traction control on almost any car. I for one would never drive one of these hot rods without it on. Its Model S for me. It can all be done in relative silence!
The model S also holds its own against the Porsche Panamera Turbo S with Traction control on!
@Timo Actually, considering that M5 accelerates to 60 in just 3.7 seconds
Just a question here as I have been referring to the P85 as an "Electric M5". BMW USA lists M5 as 0-60 in 4.2 using the 7-speed automatic with launch control. Just about dead on the P85. Am I missing something? I just thought the two cars were an almost identical comparison - space and fuel cost excepted : )
The reported times on 2013 M5 are 3.6 0-60 and 11.8 quarter.
In all my years of driving (in America) have almost never had a need to pass someone over 90 MPH. With that said, I find that bragging right stats don't mean crap, if you never have an opportunity to use it in the real world. That is why the Peformance Model S is such a superior car, because it smokes just about everything in 'real-world' situations... off the line, at-speed passing, high-speed turns.
Spoke to someone at Tesla I can't name. Said that they are looking at some interesting concepts around very high performance. In this instance it means a sports car capable of 0-60 in 2.6 sec. The designer is convinced it isn't too difficult with their current technology.
That would beat almost everything except an Ariel Atom, a Bugatti Veyron and performance bikes.
Please, please, please....
Yeah I assume the next awd roadster will be that car. Can't wait for. Secnd tesla!
This sounds like a dual motor AWD setup wich so many people have been wishing for!!!
Sounds like a good intermezzo for 2013 while waiting for the Model X.
More like 2016-7. It's high cost, low-volume.
If you're talking about this setup in the new roadster formfactor you're probably right.
I was actually thinking about shoehorning a second engine into the front of a model S combined with a RS treatment in Porsche lingo.
This shouldn't be a monumental job for Tesla and in my opinion shoudn't even distract the production line of the regular S too much.
Just wishing :-)
What I want to know is: what does launch control really do? Why is it required to get the good times on the M5? And why is this a special mode instead of the default?
Launch control preloads the transmission by revving the engine so that all the power is available from when you press the launch control button and there is no delay. It's really hard on the clutch and my understanding is that the clutch warranty is void if you use launch control more than twice a month.
Because there are several button and lever actions to set up and engage launch control and because the car makes a heck of a lot of noise, I suspect most people never use launch control at all and the rest use it once to see what it does.
It's required because if you just press on the accelerator and let out the clutch there is a lag time between when you start moving and when full power is available.
OK, so it is a bit like what my co-worker does to his drag car. Revs the engine up near full with the transmission locked so that the close to 600 hp is being dumped into the transmission fluid as heat. Do this too much or too long and the transmission is slag I'd guess. 600 hp over any measurable amount of time is a lot of heat.
Right. It's just automated (more-or-less) for you so that the times are consistent.
Doesn't that take all the fun out of spontaneous red light drag racing? Perhaps a better term would be launch delay?
I'd agree with that. It's mostly about marketing bragging rights.
Just wondering how many daily drivers here routinely hammer their cars wide open from every start to get to 60 mph? Or how many bought their current ride based simply on it's 0-60 time? Perhaps I'm just an "old" 52 lol!! but I can't remember the last time I punched my daily ride to the floor just to scream to 60 mph. Which actually exceeds the speed limit on all but rural two lanes and the interstate where I live.
Now before I get flamed, .. I can appreciate performance as much as the next person and for a little background have worked in the automotive industry at many levels "hands on included" for 30 years, so I understand cars, various aspects of performance, etc.
That's certainly not what drew me personally to Model S. I see Model S as a mid level luxury performance sedan. Here's why. The powertrain and electronics packaged in the Model S "not withstanding" the car is evolutionary not revolutionary and a similar platform that was ICE powered would probably not raise many eyebrows and may even appear old or late to market.
That said, the cars strength "in my opinion" and what drew me in was the fact that for the first time at a reasonable?? price point a manufacturer "Tesla" brought a viable battery electric car to market with range capabilities that can actually move the technology to a point where "some" might consider owning a Model S as their only car and daily all purpose driver. (thats what I intend to do).
Now back to the performance aspect yes I'm sure I'll enjoy the cars ability to accelerate from time to time, BUT I'll spend more time cruising enjoying the smooth quiet ride accompanied by the 580W 7.1 surround sound system, NOT buying gasoline, Not worrying about smog certification, Oil changes, check engine lights and a mirad of inconvienences we have come to accept as just the way it is.
How the Model S associated driveline and electronics technology proves itself in the wild?? We'll see.. complicated electronics can be as fickle as complex mechanics. but for now, I'm all in.
The zero-to-X time is not of interest to me at all. I'd gladly trade half the power for two or three times the range but I'm in because the Model S is the first EV with a decent range--even though it's still way too low. I would really like to get out of the ICE business and not be reliant on a dealer for service. I also want to support the technology.
Oh if only the speed/range ratio were user-definable on the fly......
@ ChasF ... They are! it's called your right foot! lol!!
Touché ! :-)
Performance was a selling point for me over range! I am the 0-60 driver all the time but never owned anything like what the Model S can do. Best I have was a 2003 Honda Coupe V6
Having driven hybrids & plug in hybrids for the last 10 years I learned to pulse & glide. I squeeze every mile out of a drop of gas. I look forward to the guilt free joy of wicked awesome acceleration when the conditions are right. It will be a flashback to my adolescent male days (now with 55 year old fully functioning frontal lobes) I doubt I'll start collecting law enforcement performance awards but you never know.
The model S allows me to have an alter ego @89 MPGe, "walk softly," and 400+ HP on tap, "carry a big stick."
For me the performance is a nice to have, and I'm quite pleased to have it. One of the beauties of EVs is the great torque available over such a broad range of RPMs. I like luxury sport, and I wanted an EV, and clearly the other manufacturers don't think we exist as a market, so I am putting my money where my mouth is.
And, yes, I will use the 0-60 and handling, though not every day. The best part is that it is always just a push of the pedal away though!
I'll admit I am one to floor it when going up the entrance ramp. I like to be at or above the speed on the highway before I hit the merge lane. Then I can slow if needed to fill in a hole as I move over. Most cars including the S can slowdown faster than they can accelerate.
I get really annoyed with drivers that just move on in well below the speed of traffic.
Performance is crucial to me, my major worry about the model s is actually the weight. Even with the low centre of gravity it's hard to hide 2.4 tonnes.
I'm expecting a large tyre bill!
It's not about accleration on its own, but the overall dynamic of the car. Pity there aren't any test drives available within 16,000km of me. I've driven the roadster and loved it - but it was too small to be practical.