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Houston was warned by scientists but called them alarmists

Houston was warned by scientists but called them alarmists

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/houston-flood-concrete-planning-1.4...

Like climate disruption we have politics being the problem.

RedShift | September 12, 2017

@SC, rx

That's why I didn't go for EQ insurance. Deductible is 15% minimum. Also, I remember seeing 200$ a month 10 years ago when I was in the market for EQ insurance. I spent $20 K for retrofitting my home including steel pillars in the garage and a new concrete foundation under the garage door. They also added sheer walls to the crawl space, and additional bolts to secure the house to the foundation.

This works out to having had EQ insurance for ten years, give or take. But I'd still eat the 15% deductible which, for a Bay Area home, is quite expensive.

This way, at least the house won't suffer catastrophic damage. Hopefully.

And I won't have to move out for six or nine months if the above is true.

rxlawdude | September 12, 2017

@RedShift and @SCC,

I remember when EQ insurance was exquisitely expensive (I want to say around $1,000/yr + on a home where the extensive low-deductible homeowner policy was $800. Skipped it then. That was for a two story in Laguna Niguel. Our current place in Irvine was built in 2003, and we're maybe within 15 miles of the Newport-Mesa fault, but the moderate price for EQ coverage made it a no-brainer.

As to CEA "running out of money," that issue exists for most high-risk pools. And the taxpayers generally cough up the excess. Which is exactly why our buddy in Houston is going to depend on.

Might be worth checking rates. Perhaps it's highly dependent on construction, location and proximity to known faults.

rxlawdude | September 12, 2017

@SCC, I don't know if you looked at the comments section of the LA Times article:
Unfortunately, some of the information in this article is now out of date. This article ran 17 years ago (articles.latimes.com/2000/feb/25/business/fi-2645) and seems not to have been updated since then, so portions of the text are now inaccurate.

CEA’s policy offerings have changed significantly over the years—most notably in 2016—and Californians are now able to select a policy that meets their needs and budget. We now offer a wider array of coverage choices and deductible options and a higher retrofitting discount. And because we’re a not-for-profit organization, we’ve been able to reduce rates by a combined 55 percent over the past 20 years, to keep coverage affordable.

The best way to see what it could cost to cover a house, condo unit, mobilehome or apartment in California is to use CEA’s online premium calculator, at www.earthquakeauthority.com/california-earthquake-insurance-policies/ear.... Premium costs are based on a home’s vulnerability to earthquakes (factors such as its location, age and construction type) and the choices made by the policyholder.

CEA is financially strong, too, with more than $15 billion in claim-paying capacity. That’s more than enough to pay covered losses if a devastating earthquake—like the 1906 San Francisco, 1989 Loma Prieta or 1994 Northridge earthquake—were to reoccur today.

Scientists say we are overdue for a large earthquake, so we encourage all Californians to learn more and take steps to reduce their risk of earthquake loss. Readers can visit EarthquakeAuthority.com for the latest information about earthquake insurance available through the California Earthquake Authority.

rxlawdude | September 12, 2017

@SVV, that houselogic article is totally full of crap. "Earthquake coverage typically costs between $1.50 and $3 per square foot (e.g., a 2,000-square-foot home may cost between $3,000 and $6,000 to insure), with a typical deductible of 5% to 15% of the home’s value. For example, if the home is insured for $200,000, the deductible would be $10,000 to $30,000, possibly with separate deductibles for the structure and the contents."

Really? So 'splain why my CEA coverage (the highest coverage options with the lowest deductibles) costs $400/yr for a 2100 sf home. They are wrong by almost an order of magnitude!

This is why people get overwhelmed with incorrect information on the Internet. Or overwhelmed by the overwhelming scientific evidence of, say, ACC.

rxlawdude | September 12, 2017

Yikes! SVV->SCC. I need a drink.

rxlawdude | September 12, 2017

Sorry for this earthquake diversion from flooding, but here is the CEA quote for a $1,200,000 home built in 2003, and picking a few of the options (5% deductible on building, etc.):
Policy Details:Homeowners
Policy Type Choice
ZIP xxxxx
Year Built 2003
Masonry Veneer Coverage No
Estimate Date 09/12/2017
Effective Start 2017
Dwelling:
Coverage $1,200,000
Deductible ($)$60,000
Deductible (%)5%
Building Code Upgrade:
Coverage$30,000
Personal Property:
Coverage$25,000
Deductible ($)$3,750
Deductible (%)15%
Breakable CoverageYes
Loss of Use:
Coverage$15,000

Premium:
Monthly$52.33
Annual$628.00

So you can see that the article quoted above showing ridiculous amounts is indeed ridiculous.

HOWEVER, for fun I did the same calculation for an 87 year old, two story duplex building in West LA, raised foundation, no EQ retrofits. Same policy limits as the above example. YIKES!!! $7,000. Note that this is a total of about a 5,000 sf home (2 x 2500sf).

So as I originally said, a building's age, construction and location are going to be the most major factors. But more modern construction for SoCal (slab foundation, post-1980s vintage) will have much more affordable (and thus "no brainer") premiums.

MitchP85D | September 13, 2017

According to the National Ice Center, the Arctic ice is running right along the 10-year average. Scientific data is supporting a slow-down, if not a reversal of the Arctic ice melt! Captain Plant, is the National Ice Center a denier group??!!! Goofy liberal!!

http://www.natice.noaa.gov/ims/images/sea_ice_only.jpg

SamO | September 13, 2017

Come on cheese . . . don't ignore half the evidence to fit your narrative.

SCCRENDO | September 13, 2017

@Welfare_Mitch. Isn't it amazing what you can show when you cherry pick graphs. The issue is not so much how a particular year relates to the mean of the last 10 years but what are the long term trends. Here is the raw data Welfare-Mitch. Btw. do you prefer Welfare_Mitch or Welfare-Cheese??
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/snow-and-ice/extent/
July is off 16 % from the mean from 1979

sabbia | September 13, 2017

There once was a weatherman named Mitch
Who said slopping at the trough was a bitch
But when warming waters rose
And AGW limited the snows
He said melting ice was only a glitch

SCCRENDO | September 13, 2017

The Northern hemisphere is losing sea ice at .71 million km2 or 7.25% per decade.
How these facts grab you, Welfare_Mitch

El Mirio | September 13, 2017

North West Passage sufficiently ice free for commercial shipping.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/world/europe/russia-tanker-christophe...

MitchP85D | September 13, 2017

Hey Captain Planet, that is during the multi-decadal warming period. No big-ass friggin' deal. It did that between the 1920s and the 1940s. We had a cooling period from the 1950s through the 1970s which expanded the Arctic ice to its peak in the early 1980s. Then, it started to warm again through the 1990s and the 2000s. This brought a melt down of the Arctic ice. It is curious that the Antarctic ice expanded during this time period. Why don't you pay attention to what is happening now?

https://nsidc.org/data/masie/

This is the Multisensor Analyzed Sea Ice Extent. It is a higher resolution method of measuring the Sea ice extent than the NSIDC 15% method. Click on download data. Then click ftp site. Then click masie 1km extent 6,7 kb.

There you can see days 253, 254, and 255. Looks like day 253 was the bottom at 4,578,052.26 km2. Day 254 was 4,653,830.80 km2, and day 255 is 4,715,108.14. Little too soon to say, but I think the sea ice melt is over with for 2017, and the sea ice is beginning its freeze up cycle.

I can see Captain Planet, Hellasmarter Dude, Better Red Than Dead, sabby, 60cc SamO, La Miria, and ozone hole Mike all goin' "Geeeyyyaaawwwwd Dammittt! Melt dammit melt!!

Yep, 5 years in a row that the Arctic sea ice has closed ABOVE the 2012 minimum. The multi-decadal cycle is underway!

SCCRENDO | September 13, 2017
sabbia | September 14, 2017

Have the Welfare-Cheese-Mitch acolytes abandoned him?

rxlawdude | September 14, 2017

@Sabbia, maybe they're having a large pizza with extra gubmint cheese.

MitchP85D | September 14, 2017

Hey sabby, I don't need support from anybody. I can support myself. Meanwhile, check out MASIE data. Four days in a row the Arctic ice is growing. Check the ftp site. Google Chrome will display it.

ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G02186/masie_1km_extent_sqkm.csv

NSIDC data is based on a 5-day running mean. It is just a matter of a few days that NSIDC will reflect that the Arctic ice has quit melting for the year and is now freezing up.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/

Confirmed, the scientific data does not support the idea that the Arctic ice is melting away to oblivion. And all of you global warming worshippers are goin' wwwaaaahhhhhhhh about it!

rxlawdude | September 14, 2017

"I can support myself."

Can you afford flood insurance that is priced based on risk, that does not need gubmint guarantees?

MitchP85D | September 14, 2017

Make that, 3 days in a row from the MASIE data. Something tells me you liberals won't look at it. The numbers are too intimidating for you!

rxlawdude | September 14, 2017

Something tells me @Mitch is avoiding answering a simple question: if the TRUE COST OF FLOOD INSURANCE (i.e., the pool is made from premiums + investments, minus claims paid), could he "support [himself]?"

MitchP85D | September 14, 2017

Hey Hellasmarter Dude, FEMA sets the rate based on flood risk. Who in the hell are you to decide what is the "correct" insurance premium is? Are you an expert in this field? I think not!

rxlawdude | September 14, 2017

Ah, Mitch. Let's deflect to big bad gubmint rant. It's getting old. I asked you a question: if the FREE MARKET, NON-SUBSIDIZED FLOOD INSURANCE policy was priced on the risk and pool size, and would require NO taxpayer largesse, could you still afford your home?

SCCRENDO | September 14, 2017

@Welfare_Mitch. Answer the question. If the free market dictated the flood insurance price to be 3 times as much as the government subsidized flood insurance would you have still taken your welfare?
Also why do you keep giving us daily arctic sea ice updates? If you plug in the last ten years they are all more than 2 SD below the 30 year mean until 2010. Also did you even look at this link which shows all the data not just your cherry picked data? Guess you don't have to worry about climate change. Your government welfare flood insurance will take care of you.

SCCRENDO | September 14, 2017
lilbean | September 14, 2017

I'm glad you're ok, Mitch. :-)

rxlawdude | September 14, 2017

@bean, we're all glad Mitch is okay. Stuff can be replaced.

That doesn't mean we all are on the same page with Mitch's worldview, and he seems to enjoy the reparte.

sabbia | September 14, 2017

Mitch says he can support himself. "...send not to know for whom the bell tolls..."

And, nonetheless, his acolytes are amazingly silent on

...Mitch's accepting gummint cheese after hating helping others

...and on the likelihood of stronger storms predicted by Anthropogenic Climate Change.
...and on the prevarication that FEMA is the only source of flood insurance
...and on...

MitchP85D | September 14, 2017

And sabby the psycho babbler goes on and on and on!

Thank you lilbean! Construction crew gutted my first floor. Today they applied an anti-microbial spray around the floor. Powerful stuff - had to wear my mask!!

Concerning the true free market value of my home and flood insurance, I have no friggin' idea what that might be. For all I know, it could be less. And I don't think you have any friggin' idea about my home and flood insurance either Captain Planet and Hellasmarter Dude!

RedShift | September 14, 2017

@mitch

"For all I know, they could go down"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Yes, in your bizzarro conservative bubble world, if risk is high, insurance rates actually go down, not up. Please don't try to start your own business Mitch. You will bankrupt yourself. kinda like Trump did, four times :-)

Tell you what, if you really think the rates might go down, you should be mad at Trump. He reversed any possibility of reforming the flood insurance.

Oh, how embarrassing it must be for you to admit Trump is actually doling out big government assistance, eh Mitch?

SCCRENDO | September 14, 2017

@Welfare_Mitch. I think we understood and I'm glad you have flood insurance and the government is sorting it out and you and your Tesla are safe.. It just amuses us all that a libertarian and climate change denier gets to the front of the welfare line.

SamO | September 14, 2017

Rush and Hannity said masks are for pointed headed libruls. Real americans breath in those fumes deeply.

sabbia | September 15, 2017

@welfare-cheese. It tolls for thee.

MitchP85D | September 15, 2017

Hey Better Red Than Dead, I already tried a start up restaurant business in the early-mid 1990s. LOST MY ASS!!! I did keep my weather job thank goodness. That period of my life was my economic catastrophe. I just started all over with my investments and put some of my income, little by little into the S&P500. Ben Stein says to by SPDRs till the day you die! Since then, my house is paid off and I own a Tesla! So, I recovered financially.

Now, I got a natural catastrophe to deal with. Compared to others, I got off pretty easy. 3 inches of flood water came into my house. Did a lot of damage, but nothing like several feet of flood water. The guy who is in charge of repairing my house had 5 feet of flood water damage in his home! He said when he was able to get back to his house, he saw his refrigerator floating on its side in his living room! He didn't have flood insurance unfortunately. But since he is in the construction business, he knew what he had to do to get his house livable again. My wife and I are giving him some of our furniture and appliances that sat in a few inches of floodwater. We are getting everything replaced downstairs because we have flood insurance! By the way, our outdoor A/C units sat in 7 inches of floodwater. I shut the power off before the water got to them. After the floodwaters receded, I turned the A/C on. Fortunately, the A/C units (condensers) are still working!

I claimed damages to my appliances, but not a loss. It will be interesting to see how much FEMA will cover the appliances. I hope we can replace everything and give away our old stuff. We claimed a total loss on our furniture. The construction guy has our big sectional couch. Allstate was able to help me out some. Private insurance doesn't cover flood, but they were able to help me out in other ways, and for that I've been most grateful!

By the way Better Red Than Dead, 60cc SamO, and Captain Planet, how in the heck do you know what my flood risk is? I never have flooded before in my 60 years! You have no basis to believe that I am in a subsidized high-risk flood area when my subdivision never has flooded during the 31 years I've lived here! Goofy liberals!

rxlawdude | September 15, 2017

Yep, suck that federal taxpayer dry while whining about big, bad gubmint.

RedShift | September 15, 2017

"I never have flooded before in my 60 years! "

But you did get flooded Blanche. You did. Not just you, others who were in suppposed '500 year flood zones'.

Do you think an insurer, having looked at the recent events LOWER their rates when it goes to true market? From the subsidized, artificially lower rates that your Trump is doling out currently?

Of course you do, Mitch. :-)

SamO | September 16, 2017

You keep your weather job because you only need to predict 24 hours in advance. That's not thinking, that knowing how to work a thermometer.

Now weathermen aren't always portrayed as the sharpest tool's in the box, but Mitch is digging a deep hole for his fellow Brick Tamlands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN8j8wLmKIA

SCCRENDO | September 16, 2017

@Welfare-MItch. Plug in your address and see if you are at flood risk
http://www.fmglobal.com/research-and-resources/global-flood-map

MitchP85D | September 16, 2017

Here is a good article about a particular flood-prone area in Houston. Check the next to the last paragraph. A lady in Meyerland Plaza pays $5400.00 annually for her flood insurance!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/as-flooded-houston-neighborhoo...

Now do you sanctimonious liberals believe me when I say that the FEMA flood insurance program sets their premiums based on flood risk? Flood risk varies considerably across Harris County, Texas. Personally, I would like to see the FEMA Flood Insurance program privatized!

SCCRENDO | September 16, 2017

@Wrelfare_Mitch. If you weren't subsidized by the government it would have cost you a heluva lot more. You got your government cheese.

rxlawdude | September 16, 2017

Hey, Mitch, I TOTALLY agree that FEMA's flood protection be privatized. With the proviso that you get what that private company deigns is your claim recovery and that FEMA will be prohibited from spending one dollar of taxpayer's money on any relief aid.

You know, since the big bad gubmint is such a nasty thing.

MitchP85D | September 16, 2017

Captain Planet, you have no idea whatsoever if I would pay a heluva lot more like Hellasmarter Dude would say. My subdivision has never flooded before. My flood insurance rate will probably go up now! But I was able to secure one more year at $425.00. Now, is that subsidized for my case? I have no idea. But FEMA flood insurance is only one of myriads of government programs that need to be privatized!

Mike83 | September 16, 2017

Pole houses or riverboats might be the next developers slogans. Houseboats can be fun.

MitchP85D | September 16, 2017

Captain Planet, I am neither in a high or moderate risk for flood based on that flood risk site you posted.

Remnant | September 18, 2017

@MitchP85D (September 16, 2017)

<< Captain Planet, you have no idea whatsoever if I would pay a heluva lot more like Hellasmarter Dude would say. >>

This allegedly South African impostor is obviously a Progressive/Socialist mole engaged in a furious, hyperactive, corrosive, anti-conservative posting campaign. If you parse his posts, you realize he's not just an AGW worshiper, but also a supporter of the Top American Crime Family, of Transgender Propaganda, of Socialized Medicine, of any and all anti-Trump trends, and of all his brothers in arms on these Forums. Incapable of truth or reason, he responds to criticisms only by spewing his vicious name-calling and Progressive/Socialist venom against the authors.

If you add to this his clumsy orthography and awkward English grammar, it is reasonable to suspect that English was not his mother tongue and perhaps not even his college language. He's not a scientist by any measure, but is he even a genuine physician?

Bottom line? Captain Planet appears to be a callous, unaccountable, self-aggrandizing fraudster, defending any and all anti-American causes he happen to spy along his bizarre and nasty path.

eandmjep | September 18, 2017

Article seems to be more about the fault in building in a flood plane than about Climate changes. Climate change advocates remind me of Bear Grillis. Every animal he comes across is the most Dangerous creature on the planet every environment he steps off the plane into is the worst environment imaginable to man. Every Storm is the worst one ever recorded, Every high is the Highest one in History as long as it is within 80 or so years or the end of the last mini Ice age around 1700. Except 80 years ago we did not have the tech to determine actual strengths of storms like we can now. Now we can warn people of impending storms. Even those that build at or below Seal Level. Whether or not people heed the warning is another item.

Scientists have been warning Californians of an impending Earthquake that could lay waste to everything West and in proximity to he San Andrea's fault line. Not many listening there but I'm sure when it happens Donald Trump, Republicans and Global warming will some how be the cause.

MitchP85D | September 18, 2017

Or better yet eandmjep, Trump pulling out of the Paris Accord will lead to the Apocalypse!

Mr. Remnant sir, I think you and I have two different perspectives of Captain Planet. You think there is something particularly disdainful about Captain Planet. I think he is your plain 'ol average, ordinary, typical, common, mainstream liberal democrat!

Think about it. I would surmise that 95-99% of all democrat party supporters agree with everything Captain Planet spouts off! And yes, that is a huge problem for America!

leeramer | September 18, 2017

Artic ice has lost most of its its old ice reached record lows. Is Nasa wrong and weatherman Mitch right?

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/nasa-flights-gauge-summer-sea-...

SCCRENDO | September 18, 2017

@leeramer. +100
@eandmjep. Like most climate change deniers you miss the point. The factors involved in hurricane damage are multifactorial. Yes there was no environmental regulation in where people could build in Houston as occurs under Republicans and of course our president is trying to roll back oversight. So houses are built in flood plains and in wetlands where water would naturally drain . However hurricanes become more intense with global warming particularly ocean warming. Higher sea levels increase the risk of flooding
Sachs: Big Oil will have to pay up, like Big Tobacco
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/15/opinions/climate-justice-is-coming-sachs/i...
https://usat.ly/2vX9QYd
https://www.thoughtco.com/cartoons-and-memes-about-climate-change-2734107

SCCRENDO | September 18, 2017

Hey Remnant. Did you take your meds this weekend? Are you upset with Trump hanging out with Chuck and Nancy?

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