Houston was warned by scientists but called them alarmists

Houston was warned by scientists but called them alarmists

Like climate disruption we have politics being the problem.

MitchP85D | September 18, 2017

Hey leery one, the NASA report you posted was dated 24 July 2017. Since then we have some updated information. And the most up to date information does not support the mantra that the Arctic sea ice is melting away to oblivion.

According to the NSIDC, it is becoming more and more obvious that the 2017 sea ice extent minimum was 4.636 X 10^6 km2 on 13 SEP 2017. Since then, four days in a row the sea ice is growing. The latest is 17 SEP 2017 - 4.861 X 10^6 km2. At the end of this month, the NSIDC will provide the final report for the official sea ice minimum for the 2017 melt season.

If 4.636 X 10^6 km2 turns out to be the 2017 sea ice minimum for the Arctic, then 2017 will have closed higher than the 2016, 2015, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2008, and 2007 melt seasons. Doesn't look like to me that the Arctic ice is melting away to oblivion like you global warming worshippers wish it to be!

leery one, I'll add you to the list of Captain Planet's buddies who are all chanting "MELT DAMMIT MELT!"

MitchP85D | September 18, 2017

Captain Planet, you need a history lesson about Texas politics. Democrats ruled Texas for over a century after the American Civil War. Houston was developed under democrat party rule. You are a typical lying liberal if you are trying to make the case that republicans were the ones who built Houston in a flood zone.

As I've stated before. There is nothing extraordinary or unusual about Captain Planet. He is just your average ordinary goofy dumbass lying liberal democrat!

SCCRENDO | September 18, 2017

@Welfare_Mitch. Again you remain scientifically challenged. The amount of ice melting over a few days does not determine whether climate change is happening or not. Most of us wish that Texas A&M taught you some science. Do you even use any science in your weather forecasting or do you just look out of the window and report.

This link will explain what is going on in the Arctic and perhaps will get you to understand the graphs you link.

It's immaterial who allowed Houston to be built in a flood zone and allowed building over wetlands. But Obama wanted to correct that and Trump has just reversed that. He does not want any environmental regulations to interfere with the free market's right to build wherever they want.

MitchP85D | September 18, 2017

That article you just posted confirms what I've been saying. "Though slightly larger than last year, the minimum sea ice extent 2017 is average for the past ten years..."

What do you think 2017 is supposed to do Captain Planet? Just shoot up way above the 10 year average for the sea ice to recover? No. It will recover gradually as it melted gradually.

rxlawdude | September 18, 2017

"This allegedly South African impostor is obviously a Progressive/Socialist mole engaged in a furious, hyperactive, corrosive, anti-conservative posting campaign. If you parse his posts, you realize he's not just an AGW worshiper, but also a supporter of the Top American Crime Family, of Transgender Propaganda, of Socialized Medicine, of any and all anti-Trump trends, and of all his brothers in arms on these Forums. Incapable of truth or reason, he responds to criticisms only by spewing his vicious name-calling and Progressive/Socialist venom against the authors."

Judgmental much? (Actually, I think it's more just "mental.")

rxlawdude | September 18, 2017

@eandmj: "Scientists have been warning Californians of an impending Earthquake that could lay waste to everything West and in proximity to he San Andrea's fault line. Not many listening there but I'm sure when it happens Donald Trump, Republicans and Global warming will some how be the cause."

No, but I'm not sure that Trump and the Republicans would vote for FEMA funds. Seriously.

SCCRENDO | September 18, 2017

Hey Welfare_Mitch. Read the article carefully and it will explain that when climate is going in one direction or the other it is not a steady trend where each year is slightly less than the next or slightly more than the next if the trend is upwards. That is why we have statistics. And indeed each decade is showing a significant downward trend. Are you truly that science illiterate that you cannot comprehend this or are you just being obnoxious?

@rxlawdude. I did not bother to respond to "brain scrap" (Remnant). He truly has no scientific understanding, is a blind Trump follower and also is an extreme bigot particularly against foreigners. He has limited understanding of the constitution that he purports to follow. He feels I am unqualified to vote because I was born outside this country. He is truly a nasty, ignorant piece of work.
Btw I saw Hamilton on Saturday night. Very impressive but I guess not as good as the Broadway production.

MitchP85D | September 18, 2017

Captain Planet, it is quite obvious to me that you are ignoring the Arctic melt slow-down. The sea ice minimum decline has been flat for the past 10 years. Guess what? NCEP is forecasting La Nina conditions. Got a cool-down right around the corner. And you global warming worshippers are in a panic!

The likes of Captain Planet will be screaming, "Melt dammit melt!" I don't have a lot of faith in climate predictions. It will be interesting to see if NCEP is right about this one.

SCCRENDO | September 18, 2017

Welfare_Mitch. BS alert!!!!!
NASA will put this in perspective for you
And please read the discussion here.

Makes me wonder if you are competing with Brain-scrap for scientific illiterate of the year. How do you make weather forecasts? Do you look at data or just look out the window???

science-isbetter | September 18, 2017

Thanks SCCRENDO. Figures 2a and 3 at the nsidc link nail it.

SCCRENDO | September 18, 2017

@science-isbetter. LOL. I think my 5 year old grandson would be able to understand this. But remember we are dealing with Welfare-Mitch here.

Remnant | September 18, 2017

@MitchP85D (September 18, 2017)

<< I think you and I have two different perspectives of Captain Planet. You think there is something particularly disdainful about Captain Planet. I think he is your plain 'ol average, ordinary, typical, common, mainstream liberal democrat! I would surmise that 95-99% of all democrat party supporters agree with everything Captain Planet spouts off! And yes, that is a huge problem for America! >>

Well, we seem to agree with regard to the contents of his ideology, while you attention me that he is not alone and that his group is a huge problem for America.

So, we agree in most respects. What separates us seems to be how we feel about Captain Planet. Disdain or a warm and fuzzy sense of endearing for his antics because they look so much like those of his lovely community of think-alikes who are "a huge problem for America"?

You know ... !? Your vision may be even scarier than mine.

The "huge problem" has become the "Alt-Left" and seems to have led to BLM, Antifa, Riots, and Masked Thugs clobbering innocents, damaging property, looting, setting cars and stores afire, and excusing such behaviors as legitimate defense against "speech as violence" and Court adjudications that disagree with their expectations or desires.

Antifa as Fascism reborn? Why not? After all, Fascism and Nazism were outgrowths of Socialism in their time.

SCCRENDO | September 18, 2017

@Remnant. Most would suggest that you do not create a warm and fuzzy feeling on these threads. Perhaps you would generate that warm and fuzzy feeling at Trump ralllies, KKK rallies or indeed neo-Nazi rallies. Many would suggest that your brand of bigotry, lack of scientific facts and general lack of grasp of reality are of far more concern to this country and the planet.

PrimeTime | September 19, 2017

@ Remnant: Many fine people were marching in Charlottesville carrying swastikas and KKK signs.

And then there's the case today of the Ohio fireman who said he would save a dog before he would save a (word omitted).

And you say that "his group" is a huge problem for America. If so, I'm for the the problem.

MitchP85D | September 20, 2017

Yep, just as I thought. The NSIDC is now confirming that it looks like the Arctic ice has reached its minimum for 2017. This is a preliminary report. They think the sea ice got down to 4.64X 10^6 km2 on 13 SEP 2017. This is the 8th lowest on the 38-year climate record.

I spoke with my climate expert co-worker today about the NSIDC report. We both work in the big operations room. I do the marine forecasting for ships, tug-boats and barges. He does climate forecasting, and is very well versed on all of the climate index models. He told me today that the 2012 Arctic sea ice minimum is the lowest we will see in our lifetimes! He said the PDO is going negative, which means the warmer waters from the Pacific will be shut off at the Bering Strait, thus impeding the enhanced ice melting in the Chukchi and Beaufort Seas.

I agree with my colleague! For the next several years, you will see the Arctic Sea ice report stating things like, "this is the 10th lowest on record, or 7th lowest on record, or the 11th lowest on record," instead of "1st lowest on record, 2nd lowest on record, or 3rd lowest on record."

The Arctic Sea Ice melt has bottomed out. We have been in a pause, and now I strongly suspect the sea ice will gradually expand over the next 3 decades before it starts to shrink again. I am on record here. We will find out who is right. 5 years in a row, the Arctic sea ice has closed above the 2012 minimum. Not one of you global warming worshippers have dared to answer my question. HOW MANY YEARS IN A ROW OF THE ARCTIC SEA ICE MINIMUM CLOSING ABOVE 2012 WILL IT TAKE FOR YOU TO START QUESTING HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING??!!!

MitchP85D | September 20, 2017


MitchP85D | September 20, 2017

I suspect the answer will be muted nonsense! It could be 20 years in a row, and you global warming worshippers will still be yelping, "The ice is melting, the ice is melting, and we will all drown!"

SamO | September 24, 2017

I suspect the answer will be muted nonsense! It could be 20 years in a row, and you global warming deniers ARE still be yelping, "The ice isn't melting, the ice isn't melting. Whatever you do, just keep burning carbon."

Fixed it for you.

Mike83 | September 24, 2017

Holy smoke. The Keeling curve hit near 410 ppm CO2 last June. It is apparent that facts must be avoided and questioned by the Climate Disruption Deniers and indeed cherry pick their data to reinforced a false conclusion.
Thank goodness the rest of the world that is more civilized and educated can read a graph and see satellite pictures without cataracts or drugs like Limbaugh blurring their vision.

Tesla-David | September 24, 2017

Thanks @Mike83, scary facts indeed. We just got back from trip to Germany and Austria, and were very encouraged by the many solar panels, and wind farms we saw driving through those countries. We also saw quite a few Tesla's on the Autobahn , and in Vienna. Visited a Tesla showroom in Vienna, not far from our Hotel. Lots of discussion about EVs on our trip, and it was very apparent that Europeans get the seriousness of AGW/Climate Disruption and are actively engaged in doing something about it.

Mike83 | September 24, 2017

Excellent news and glad you had a great trip. Several years ago we traveled to the Netherlands and Germany. They are moving ahead. I noticed the dollar is weakening from 1.07 to 1.20 now! Cost more to visit the EU but Teslas may be less expensive there now. I would like to drive a P100D on the autobahn and through the Alps maybe picking up some chocolates in Switzerland. Amazing and hopeful how the world is moving ahead along with California, Oregon, Wash., New York and the other smart states.

Mike83 | September 25, 2017

The Fake news outlets on Climate Disruption reports.

NoMoPetrol | October 2, 2017

It would be oh so nice in that alternate universe where my mind resides if every person who taps into the federal coffers to bail out his/her personal disaster situation would, from this day forward, just shut up about keeping government small and pay their fair share of taxes.

SamO | October 2, 2017

+42 @NoMoPetrol

Maybe Cheese's mom didn't teach him the "golden rule".

Please watch to see if you are a psychopath . . .

Tesla-David | October 2, 2017

@NoMoPetrol, great rant, couldn't agree more!

Remnant | October 6, 2017

@SCCRENDO (September 18, 2017)

<< Perhaps you would generate that warm and fuzzy feeling at Trump ralllies, KKK rallies or indeed neo-Nazi rallies. >>

Trying to excuse Left-wing violence with Right-wing violence or even the peaceful rallies of political opponents is job for a villain and it makes you look like the wretch and scumbag you are.

SCCRENDO | October 6, 2017

@Remnant. Again confusion reigns in your brain scrap. Let me correct your sentence
“Trying to excuse Right-wing violence with Left-wing violence or even the peaceful rallies of political opponents is job for a villain and it makes you look like the wretch and scumbag you are.

Mike83 | October 6, 2017

do you think the pro Trump posts originate from Russia? They always avoid the topic and bring in their sick hate.

SCCRENDO | October 6, 2017

@Mike. Don't really want to go into conspiracy theories. I do see all the Facebook posts with anti-Obama and anti-Clinton nonsense. I just ignored them because I felt that nobody would be that gullible to actually believe them. But the election of Trump suggests that many do. I think people like Remnant are just committed bigots and haters. It is likely that these kind of posts influence them further but I think he would have voted Trump regardless. I know many of that ilk. (Some of my best friends are right wing nutjobs. LOL). The problem is that all they ever watch is Foxnews and read Breitbart and are completely closed to other viewpoints.They have a fact phobia.

Mike83 | October 6, 2017

Closed minds suck up information that agrees with their bias which explains why they don't get science or scientists. The Russian intelligence saw this opportunity along with US fossil fuel pundants that could use Trump to advance their agenda.
The Koch brothers funded the tea bag party seems similar as they own many in the government

MitchP85D | October 6, 2017

Hey NoMoGas, I've paid my flood insurance premium for 10 years. Are you trying to tell me that if your home got damaged after paying an insurance premium for 10 years, you would not file a claim? Is that what you are trying to tell everybody here? You're fulla crap if that is the point you are trying to make! Of course you would file a claim. If you smashed up your Tesla, are you going to file a claim with your insurance company? Or, are you just going to pay out of pocket to repair your car.

I know the answer to those questions I posed to you. And the same goes to the rest of you goofy, dumb-ass, worthless piece of dog poop global warming worshippers! You would file a claim with your insurance company like everybody else would. I am no different. I filed a claim to repair my home. The adjuster came out to take pictures and write up a report. He just finished his report after a month and is submitting it to the "carrier" as he calls it.

My neighbor got 10K from FEMA without having flood insurance. If you want to make a case about digging into the Treasury for government assistance, that would be it. But, in most cases, that assistance is in the form of a loan. My case is that I paid flood insurance premiums for 10 years, hoping I would never have to use it. Well, it happened, so I filed a rightful claim.


SCCRENDO | October 6, 2017

@Welfare_Mitch. Why are getting so angry?? Your neighbor got his welfare cheese without being suckered into paying flood insurance while you paid yours. You still got your share of welfare cheese. You wouldn’t have got it in a libertarian state without FEMA. Liberals never get jealous when those less fortunate than themselves get helped out by the government when in trouble. We don’t get jealous. Look at the poor people of Puerto Rico who are struggling to get help from FEMA. Trump took time off after 10 days of golf to throw paper towels at them. You on the other hand are annoyed at your neighbor even though you also got your welfare cheese

MitchP85D | October 7, 2017

After reading the claims report from my adjuster, I wasn't "suckered" into anything Captain Planet! In fact, after my ground floor is restored, I will become a walking, talking advertisement for flood insurance!

The more people who sign up for flood insurance outside of the flood zones, the less money, if any will be needed from the Federal Treasury to back the program. The Reagan Administration succeeded in making the National Flood Insurance Program independent of the Treasury back in 1985. Of course, that was only temporary because Reagan was temporary. I don't know all of the hows and whys of this program, whether it is right or wrong. It just is - and the only thing available if you want to supplement your homeowners insurance to cover your home if it floods.

Most people don't have flood insurance because they don't think their home will ever flood. But every year, peoples' homes get flooded, and they are in shock and despair when it happens. When my home got flooded, I was breathing a bit easier knowing I had flood insurance, even though I had no idea how much coverage I would get. Now that I've read the report, I am glad that I opted for flood coverage. And I encourage everybody who lives in a place where it rains hard to get it. Nature has no regard for where humans build their homes!

No Captain Planet. I am not annoyed over my neighbors seeking help from FEMA. I know their plight!

SCCRENDO | October 7, 2017

So Welfare_Mitch stop complaining about FEMA and be grateful we have it. Now lets make sure that Trump doesnt dismantle it. Also lets hope they help Puerto Rico. And it’s time Houston prohibited building in wetlands and required environmentally sound building permits. And lets address climate change.

MitchP85D | October 7, 2017

Addendum - My neighbors would be much better off if they had flood insurance!

SCCRENDO | October 7, 2017

Agreed. But FEMA still came through for you and your neighbor. How about Puerto Rico???

MitchP85D | October 7, 2017

When have I complained about FEMA Captain Planet? I prefer the private market, but I am aware of the way things are. I am not going to live my life in misery because everybody does not think the way I do, as opposed to you liberals! The fundamental difference between conservatives and liberals is that we believe in freedom of thought. You liberals don't!

MitchP85D | October 7, 2017

Captain Planet, did you not notice Trump entertaining the thought of forgiving Puerto Rico's debt?

MitchP85D | October 7, 2017

Captain Planet, according to your logic, all of Houston is a floodplain, and should be dismantled. You never did address my comment about Anchorage, AK rebuilding in an earthquake zone in 1964.

SCCRENDO | October 7, 2017

I guess you cannot complain about FEMA. You did get your welfare cheese. Trump promised to forgive Puerto Rico’s debt like he promised to make America Great again. Neither will happen. Need to watch Trump’s actions not his words, particularly his tweets. He got too distracted by golf to attend to Puerto Rico. I did not say dismantle Houston. I did say they need to build sensibly in the future. And take positive actions to minimize future flood damage including addressing climate change. Yes one can rebuild in earthquake zones. We need to look at the overall risk and build earthquake “safe” buildings. Major disasters will continue to cause severe damage but we need to look at the risks and be sensible about how we build and rebuild. Houston’s building was unregulated and the market prevailed while ignoring all risks. I encourage capitalism. And like all aspects of my life I encourage people taking the initiative and trying things. But we need to be aware of and address risks

Tesla-David | October 7, 2017

Thanks @Mike83, Limbaugh is such a piece of crap, a bloviating idiot. I have family members who voted for you know who, who are in the path of this storm. They have ignored my pleas to take Climate Change/Disruption seriously. Maybe if they see some serious damage, they might wake up and pay attention to this issue. This number of hurricanes in the last couple of months is unprecedented and should be of concern to folks who can't seem to connect the dots that a warming ocean is linked to what is happening. I am also sick of right wing attacks against credible scientist lie Dr. Mann, who continue speak out on this issue. Utterly disgusting.

Tesla-David | October 7, 2017

lie = like

MitchP85D | October 7, 2017

This is an inaccurate statement Captain Planet - "Houston’s building was unregulated and the market prevailed while ignoring all risks."

Flood risk is very well studied, and the flood insurance premiums vary considerably based on that risk. However, I do notice a modification of your tone. And that is a good thing!

Consider this Captain Planet. The Greater and Lesser Antilles. Look how vulnerable they are to hurricanes. Should we allow people to live there? That is basically the argument you've been making for the past month.

MitchP85D | October 7, 2017

Freudian slip Tesla-David. Lie Dr. Mann is right on target!

Nothing at all unprecedented about this hurricane season. Hurricanes have been well documented for over a century. 2017 is an active season, but nothing unprecedented.

SCCRENDO | October 7, 2017

@Welfare_Mitch. It’s no fun having a debate with someone like you who ignores facts and makes things up as you go. Please try stick to the truth and check your facts. Btw. I have not modulated my argument. I am consistent. You fail to understand what I am saying.

It is not for me to make decisions as to who should build where and who shouldn’t. I am all for colonizing Mars. But in deciding where to chose to live or build we need to understand the implications. That’s why we need to follow sensible building codes and follow what science dictates. I guess if people chose to live in high risk areas, like I have chosen to live in California we need to be fully informed of the risks and people need to pay financial penalties to cover the extra risk. The issue in Houston is perhaps that strict building codes were absent and people were not fully informed of the risks. But when disaster strikes a compassionate government still needs to bail out its citizens,

MitchP85D | October 7, 2017

Here is Dr. Mann as he really is before Congress and his peers. When you have time, and are interested, it is well worth the watch.

SCCRENDO | October 7, 2017

I dont have time to listen to the whiole thing. But why don’t you listen to Tomko at around 1h19m

MitchP85D | October 8, 2017

Volcanos, wildfires, earthquakes, tornados, floods, hurricanes. There are all kinds of natural catastrophes that can damage or destroy people's homes. There are ample studies to determine risk. And we humans just do the best we can to weigh the risks and deal with what happens. Life is full of risks.

Ridiculing people who have the misfortune of one of these events reveals a sickness that exists in the mind of those hurling the criticisms. And I can't help but notice these criticisms only come from the "anointed ones," the sanctimonious liberal-socialist mindset!