i3 BMW Fail

i3 BMW Fail

I just read a first impression review on CNET (

Range of 80 to 100 miles, ugly, optional engine? What is good about this thing.. better then a horse I guess.
This yet another example of a manufacture that cannot get the engineering right so they put the burden on marketing. Hey this is all that people need.. you don't need to go over 100 miles.. no..

Good job BMW, in one fell swoop you have given late night comedians and the oil industry something to talk about.

negarholger | August 1, 2013

@pebell - absolutely, the most important goal for Tesla was to show that you can build an EV making money... the big guys were always whining ( to the goverments ) that they can not make money on EVs.
And here with the I3 we have a first (from the big guys) with the clear intention to make money on the I3 from the start. Big win, one more excuse gone.

negarholger | August 1, 2013

Also not forget to forget - Tesla is about sustainable transportation and means cars, trucks, solar, electrical storage etc. There about 2 B ICEs on this planet Tesla can not replace them all by itself... if sustainable transportation is the goal then Elon needs a lot of help.

Brian H | August 1, 2013

About BMW & Audi -- could be the former are more ready and eager to get out of their drives? ;)

The thrilled admiration the Tesla inspires in so many is priceless. I've never seen or read of the like. Make no mistake: that's bankable. Super bankable.

Flaninacupboard | August 2, 2013

pebell: "in a few years any EV can charge on any DC based fast charger."

I doubt it. Cars live a long time, my current one is 12 years old. What would the cost be of retrofitting a Leaf with a CCS socket and a Tesla supercharging socket? Where would they go? Would Nissan allow reflashing the ECU to support the new ports? I suspect the cost of supporting the new/different standards would be higher than the cost of swapping to a car that had the standard you want.

When will chademo be increased to 120kw? A few years from now? What will SC's be on by then? 200kw? Will chademo ever be reliable? It certainly isn't in the UK. Will CCS be any more reliable? It supports 90kw at launch (whenever that may be), but when will it support 120kw? or more?

tobi_ger | August 2, 2013
For CCS there are prototypes since 2012 for 100kW.
Cite: "The IEC working group for TC 23/SC 23H/PT 62196-3 (max. 1000Vdc / 400A plugs) has been approved for new work."

We won't see anything comparable to SC's for years to come it seems.

howard | August 2, 2013

there initial target is city only drivers.
but the price tag is way too high at 42k.
if they want a big seller they should make a 650E(lectric) that might rival the S better

DTsea | August 2, 2013

BMW has hundreds of thousands of people following the i series on Facebook and something like 90000 people on waitlist for test drives. They are serious about the car and this is good- the idea is to get electric cars accepted in the mainstream, and Tesla and BMW are both adding to that.

pebell | August 2, 2013

@BrianH, your BMW/Audi remark made me chuckle :) But seriously I think it has more to do with passion. The only Audi's that inspire passion in their drivers are the "special" models, TT, RS, etc. The regular mainstream Audi's (A3, A4, A6, A8, with the A5 being a notable exception) typically don't - they are just very good, solid cars. But BMW drivers are typically very passionate about their mainstream 3 or 5 series. I believe _that_ is the link between BMW and Tesla. But I'll be the first to admit this is highly subjective :)

@Flaninacupboard: standardization is a must. The EV is never going to replace the ICE if each vendor has to set up it's own infrastructure from scratch. Imagine that if you drive a Ford ICE, you can only get gas at a BP station, if you drive Chevrolet, only Shell, Chrysler: Esso, etc etc.

Standardization is always a painful and expensive proces. But if the gains are high enough, it will be done - examples in abundance. Either through commitees (although they typically work too slow) or through de facto standards.

You put alot of emphasis on how fast the chargers are or will be. But the speed really doesn't matter, does it? If I want to go to on vacation to some remote corner of France in the next few years, there will definitely not be Tesla SC's along the entire route. But if there are plenty of CHAdeMO chargers inbetween, even if if at half the speed, I can still make it to my destination. If I had to rely on SCs only - impossible. And this, for real, was nearly a showstopper for my wife when I told her I wanted to drive a MS. And _that_, in a nutshell, is why NOT standardizing is even more expensive in the end.

pebell | August 2, 2013

Oops, Audis, not Audi's.. My bad :)

pebell | August 2, 2013

And "its", not "it's". Damn you Edit button, for not being there!

lloyds | August 2, 2013

i'll wait til I see the actual car in person, but for now, they should fire the entire design team

Brian H | August 2, 2013

There's a great xkcd:
"We have 15 standards. It's a mess."
"Yes, we need a new one to supplant them all."
"Now we have 16 standards."

Sudre_ | August 2, 2013

As far as standards in charging go, I don't think a standard is required. It would be nice yes but not required. I can travel to Europe with my adapters and use my electronics just fine. EV's with different charger methods will work just fine on other systems with the right adapter.... just like Tesla will have a CHAdeMO adapter.

What makes Tesla's SC network superior is not the high kWh output. It's the control it uses to keep from damaging the battery. CHAdeMO will not be able to charge a battery at 120kWh if it damages the battery.

I really really want Leaf's, I3 and other to succeed. The more the merrier. I just don't know if the price tag of the I3 is worthy. My wife and I both find the I3 as ugly as can be. I was hoping to get her one since her Echo is dieing.... she hates it.

Can one get a RAVe outside CA?

justineet | August 3, 2013

If you want to go with the boxy type design I think it's pretty good design personally. But the range is its biggest shortcoming in my opinion. 70 miles range means you won't be able to make anything longer than a 35 miles one-way commute. That is a big issue for most people I believe.

JaneW | August 3, 2013

"It seems to me that over there, a car is more about transporting someone from point A to point B. Here in the US a car represents freedom."

My experience is that's not as true in Europe as it is here. Europeans have demanded better driving, better handling cars for years, even in their lower priced vehicles, while the average US citizen drove a wallowing boat. Only recently, the cars from Ford and GM that are succeeding here today are much more European in style and drivability. Finally.

JaneW | August 3, 2013

The i3 is not so different from a lot of stubby, odd but popular European city cars that wouldn't sell here.
Look at the 3-cylinder Opel Aglia, VW Fox, Mitsubishi Colt, Toyota Aygo (Peugeot 107), Toyota iQ, and Smart for Two.

JaneW | August 3, 2013

This just in:

City car prototype powered solely by solar power has been developed by six European companies.
The less than 600kg vehicle, designed specifically to meet the needs of city travellers in sunny south European regions, has a maximum speed of 100 km/h (60 mph) and a range of 20km (12 miles?).
'The vehicle's performance met our expectations for the design. It showed very high stability on small radius curves and had an average energy consumption of around 80 Watt-hours per kilometre.

The car’s smart photovoltaic panels with smart diodes and self-adapting electronics minimise loss of energy caused by imperfect light conditions or a single malfunctioning cell. If the need arises and the sun is simply not enough, the car can be plugged into a regular socket and charged in the same manner as conventional electric cars.

THEKING | August 4, 2013

I'm starting to think the best buy of all the EV is a used FISKER Karma
Saw one at cars & coffee event 113k sticker 3k for miles guy bought it for 59k.
They are beautiful (even more stylish than MS) however without any dealer service it's a real crap shoot.
Anybody else have any thoughts on these?

Xerogas | August 4, 2013

Fisker Karma = incredibly difficult to service now that the company is bankrupt, and probably not worth $59K, either. Especially when you can get a Tesla S 60kW for $62K after Fed+State rebates.

nelsonc | August 4, 2013

It's garbage.

EcLectric | August 4, 2013

Karma will be a collector's item. If you can be the one to keep yours from lighting on fire, you might be rich!

portia | August 5, 2013

Karma looks ugly to me, wouldn't touch one. you have seen the owner review of it on youtube, right?

THEKING | August 5, 2013

i'm not saying it's any thing close to a MS overall however on just pure curb appeal/looks it's the winner for sure.

justineet | August 5, 2013

I am not sure....but I think the EPA range is close to 70 miles not 100. I believe I read that somewhere...