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If there's a software upgrade to bring the LR Dual Motor acceleration close as the Performance, I would buy it ! :-)

If there's a software upgrade to bring the LR Dual Motor acceleration close as the Performance, I would buy it ! :-)

I only care about the software upgrade without the hardware stuff if it's available I would gladly pay for it.

Ok the LR Dual Motor has a nice acceleration but now I would love to increase so it's close to the Performance spec :-)

minervo.florida | March 18, 2019

I laugh at people like Howard telling Tesla how to run the business. They make the best cars on the planet, no one is coming close. How is that "Tesla killer" Bolt doing?
Or any of the others.

Elon has done more than the impossible. No need to discuss, most know.

minervo.florida | March 18, 2019

Let's see, if Tesla offered the speed only upgrade to the AWD people for $5k, and just 10,000 took it, that would be
$50,000,000 of pure bottom line profit. Why the hell would he want to do that, makes no sense, LOL.

howard | March 18, 2019

minervo.florida, "I laugh at people like Howard telling Tesla how to run the business. They make the best cars on the planet, no one is coming close. How is that "Tesla killer" Bolt doing? Or any of the others.

Elon has done more than the impossible. No need to discuss, most know."

*****

After trading in the 2017 Bolt for the P3D+ I purchased a 2019 Volt. Those of us with first-hand unbiased experience know. No need to discuss!!

TM3Q | March 18, 2019

@howard

I'm trying to follow, you bought a 2019 Volt?

amanwithplan | March 18, 2019

@howard

The 2019 Volt is not an EV, it's a hybrid. It is not a directly comparable car to the Tesla Model 3, let alone the P3D+ variant of it.

The P3D+ is an EV sportscar that competes with BMW, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Lotus, Maserati, etc. The Chevy market is not even in its consideration set.

A 2019 Chevy Volt is closer in price point to Tesla's based $35k Model 3. I think the Volt's 0-60 is 8.4s (when battery is over 40%), it would again not be in the same class of even the cheapest Tesla.

I suppose you purchased to have the gasoline option, which is fine, and would definitely make sense for longer trips. But the idea that Chevy, Nissan, or Ford make a superior EV to Tesla is beyond laughable.

lordmiller | March 18, 2019

This guy is hilarious.

howard | March 18, 2019

TM3Q | @howard I'm trying to follow, you bought a 2019 Volt?

Yes, we needed a second car for our AZ home. I simply could not justify, for a host of reasons, buying another Tesla even at the 35k if it had been available. Yes, I wanted to have open back road capability which is why I did not just go back and buy another Bolt. Discussing my decision on this forum is pretty much pointless. I honestly have no ax to grind and do enjoy driving my Tesla but it is simply not the best value to me for the money.

Funny that some of you argue that Tesla is not a premium car and that Elon's vision it to be the low-cost mass-produced EV for the world and ridicule me for buying just that car.

TM3Q | March 18, 2019

@howard

Ok I see, my neighbour has also a Volt and he likes it. No worries, I understand. The only thing I could argue is that a Volt is a hybrid so it could’t be the low cost mass-produced EV....GM is closing plants in Canada because they discontinu the Volt.

jeff d | March 18, 2019

I'd take just the acceleration upgrade to offset the drop from old to new price and be happy, I don't need top speed cuz I don't need that, just need 0-70 off the line. =)

2015P90DI | March 18, 2019

Pretty sure there are hardware changes that would be needed to go from current AWD acceleration to P3D acceleration. Not just a simple software update. As Tesla did with the M3LRRWD, there's always some tuning that can be done to increase acceleration, but you're talking about a 10% gain, not a 25% gain. Something like that will likely come some day as part of a software update, but about 99.9% certain that P3D acceleration (or even close to it) will ever be offered on a current LR AWD car.

eztider | March 19, 2019

I don't need 3.2 seconds. Anything sub 4 seconds will do.

rdm227 | March 19, 2019

As much as I'd like a performance upgrade for my LR AWD it would really be just to know that I have it. The LR AWD is already more than fast enough for anything most people would use it for. Even when coming out of a dead stop from a traffic light if I floored it I'd have to ease off within a few seconds as I am already around 60 or so. If I am on a highway or two lane road and accelerate at 60 or 70 mph to pass someone if I am not careful I am in the 90-100 range in the blink of an eye. I can't imagine ever using the increased acceleration (though I would be one of those that would gladly pay for it) from say 4.4/4.5 seconds down to say 4.0 seconds.

disapr | March 19, 2019

The 3P teleports more than accelerates..

lbowroom | March 19, 2019

2015P90DI, although you're pretty sure it requires hardware, you're absolutely wrong. There is no hardware difference between a P3D- and an AWD.

amanwithplan | March 19, 2019

@lbowroom

Per Musk, you are not correct: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998015873167208448?lang=en

aperfectecho | March 19, 2019

@howard- I simply do not understand your thinking here. Yes, the performance people paid initially for a performance upgrade, some with hardware changes/software, and others with (arguably) a software change only. So, if Tesla can, after the sale, upgrade the existing AWD models for $, how is that not a good idea?
The EAP/FSD price has gone up/down since I purchased my AWD in Sept 2018, and I was told at the time that the FSD would never be cheaper than at the time of purchase. Well, 6 months later, and it was, so I bought then. Doesn't devalue the other cars that paid more-they got in first, without any guarantee that the price would drop. I opted to wait, not knowing if I'd ever opt for it, but at the reduced price, yes, I did. Win for Tesla, win for me.
For a performance upgrade on my existing AWD-yes, I'd consider paying, not too much, but would consider it. It is the nature of prices for software, and even for cars, to drop over time. Doesn't mean the people that paid more initially got taken, they got what they paid for, and have enjoyed it for a longer period.

amanwithplan | March 19, 2019

@aperfectecho

I am in full support of existing AWD owners to be able to software upgrade closer to P3D- performance. However, if they completely match P3D- perfomance, that would mean that everything in terms of hardware that was stated about P3D was a lie and the $11k we initially paid was literally to unlock the restrictor to the motors. That would piss off a lot of P3D- buyers.

I still don't think that's the case because I choose to believe Elon's tweet, and I do expect software upgrades in the future that improve AWD performance, just not to P3D- levels. Maybe a hair under 4.0 0-60, something like that.

slingshot18 | March 19, 2019

I'd prefer they offer power upgrades a la cart for AWD. I'd pay $2k for 4s. Maybe $5k for 3.5. But I wouldn't pay the full $10k for the 3.2s.

rkalbiarEV | March 19, 2019

I would gladly pay $2K for a rated 3.9s 0-60. That is all I am looking for...

slingshot18 | March 19, 2019

@rkalbiarEV They'd get my $2k for sure.

howard | March 19, 2019

aperfectecho | @howard- I simply do not understand your thinking here. Yes, the performance people paid initially for a performance upgrade, some with hardware changes/software, and others with (arguably) a software change only. So, if Tesla can, after the sale, upgrade the existing AWD models for $, how is that not a good idea?

What is the incentive for Tesla customers to pay full price for their selections, Performance, AP, EAP, FSD if they believe with good reason that if they wait Tesla is going to offer them the same things for less money? This does, in fact, diminish the value for others that paid for the options at the time of purchase for the full price.

It cheapens the Tesla brand though as pointed out it benefits the current owners.

What is the timing to by a Tesla? What options should you pay for when you decide to buy?

Will Tesla have a big sale on upgraded wheels, power output upgrades, performance upgrades, AP, EAP, FSD?

Maybe I should just buy the bottom line M3 and wait for Tesla to start having sales, or not buy at all thinking heck they might be another $2,000 cheaper next month and include a bunch of options for free.

Oh, no one really knows based on the constantly changing landscape of Tesla sales.

lbowroom | March 19, 2019

Amanwithaplan, thank you, I'm well aware of Elon's post from May 2018. To date, no one has been able to produce any evidence of a parts difference between the two models, they have identical replacement part numbers regardless of any binning or testing procedure. Reports of customers ordering performance without PUP when available, receiving AWD at delivery, and service flashing software to "fix" them.

aperfectecho | March 19, 2019

@amanwithaplan: I have read the tweets, etc., and am still not convinced there is any hardware difference between a non-P AWD, and the P- AWD edition. It's never been made 100% clear to me.
That said, yes, if there are hardware differences, then software alone will not allow the non-P to be as quick as the P. Just have never seen an absolute on this.
@howard-the incentive is that there is no guarantee. If you want performance, buy it, because, like now, there is no guarantee there will be any upgrade path. If there is, it doesn't really detract from your experience. Yes, that option may be cheaper, may not ever come to fruition. The only way to be sure is to pay up front.

howard | March 19, 2019

lbowroom, Oh what to believe, who to believe, when to believe, when to doubt. What the heck!!

What is FSD? It is not currently what was represented in the beginning, is it?

What will FSD be when it is finally released. Probably not even what it is represented to be today.

Constantly changing information/disinformation regarding, sales, service, parts, body shops, SC rollout, actual build specifications (AWD / Performance differences that probably really do not exist other than software), pricing, options, and freebies all being propagated by both Tesla and Elon is a base issue with Tesla.

It has certainly affected my views of Tesla and what I purchased next.

h2ev | March 19, 2019

If I had to bet money on it, my bet would be on performance being simply a software checkbox.

However shallow this tidbit may be, but school kids around here think highly of Teslas, one of them said to my kid that he wishes his first car to be a Tesla. Little do they know that many of those gas guzzling SUVs around here easily cost more than my $60k Model 3. Wait till they find out one can now be had for $35k.

amanwithplan | March 19, 2019

@lbowroom

The reports of the service flash from AWD to P3D- can just as easily be a P3D- hardware on AWD software, which is then corrected.

If indeed there are ZERO hardware differences between AWD and P3D-, with the claim from Tesla CEO this is not the case, then this is an $11k class action waiting to happen. Binned would indeed carry same part numbers, and I have yet to see a teardown for a Performance vehicle, only the non-P $49k variants of 2018.

Again, I'm simply choosing to trust Elon on this one, I could very well be wrong.

lbowroom | March 19, 2019

No lawsuit necessary. Software only performance difference isn't illegal. P3D- doesn't exist anymore.

lordmiller | March 19, 2019

@amanwithplan I think everyone is thinking clearly. The motors are the same. I have a Dual Motor non P. If I were to purchase a software unlock to make it quicker for say 5K, that's only part of the P version. I would need to get the 20 inch rims, for 4K. Then Get the upgraded breaks and suspension tweaks and track mode. How much would that be? 2K maybe? Seems like 11K, no one should cry if we could just get the "motor unlock". SHEEESH!!

howard | March 19, 2019

A lawsuit on Performance model issue does not even remotely compare to the FSD issue. Are you kidding there is no basis period. Nothing tweeted or said for that matter is going to stick. It is all a patern of disinformation.

Baltfan | March 19, 2019

As someone who came along when P3D- was no longer available and didn't want the rougher ride of 20 inch wheels or summer tires, it would be nice to pay extra for more acceleration. If you got those same things plus better motors, bigger brakes, and the spoiler for $11k, why would you care if someone paid $6k more for a software upgrade that basically made them P3D- or close to that? It wouldn't affect the value of your car at all. Moreover, your car would handle better and have shorter stopping distances. If you say you would have ordered something other than P3D and then upgraded, you have enjoyed the benefits of P3D and took no risk that the upgrade wouldn't be there.

lordmiller | March 19, 2019

hallelujah @Baltfan I think I said the same thing as you!

howard | March 19, 2019

Win Win. Whatever the upgrade amount is just rebate me that amount. We are all happy!!

Maybe at some point, I would get enough money back to match the current discounted pricing. Wow, that would make me really happy. Who could not go for that!

TM3Q | March 19, 2019

I'm ready to pay, Tesla I'm waiting for your offer :-)

jer1776 | March 19, 2019

There is defiantly money in aftermarket performance, so why can't Tesla if it's as simple as a software unlock?

007bond | March 21, 2019

So when I was in for tire rotation I asked the service guy about this and here is what he said. In the beginning when they were only making the performance model all the rear motors they had were the performance tested ones. Then when they first started to make the non performance model some of those actually got the performance rear motors since that's all that was in stock. This was to keep production going as fast as possible and then as standard motors came in those were used for the standard models. So he says if you have an early production car it is very likely you have the perf motor later on it's hit of miss. Seems somewhat plausible that something like this is what happen. In any case seems reasonable that even the standard motor can have more power unlocked.

lbowroom | March 21, 2019

Historically, and any other way you look at it, what you just said makes no sense.

aperfectecho | March 21, 2019

@007bond - there's no evidence that the motors changed physically at all. Elon simply said that these were burned in for longer, and selected out of the stock. Burn in, well, I'd think that after a while of driving any Model 3, you'd get that, and as far as selection, probably not much variance.
Without any hard evidence of a physical difference, I'd think it's simply software

nailsmails | March 21, 2019

First world problems.
I can't use my P3D power longer than a second or two at a time.
It's the all those other cars on the road slowing me down.
Can I get a HSV lane?

kenstclair | March 21, 2019

questions: I've got a duel motor AWD long range.
1. are the motors the same size and specs as a RWD motor?
2. can i assume that the motors will last longer and hold up to stress better than a single RWD motor.
3. if i occasionally like to floor it to see what it feels like to go 0-90 mph--how bad is that for my motors and battery degradation?

20dieter10 | March 21, 2019

Some third party will come out with a software hack that will be able to match the performance of the P3D if not exceed the power of the P3D for much less money. Most cars today can be updated with relatively cheap software form third parties. I would expect the same for my AWD, just wait a year or two.

9114s | March 21, 2019

Count me in, I will pay $$$$ to get a P3D- performance or closer enough, but I will never buy a new P3D with 20" wheels and lower suspension. It is a WIN-WIN situation.

ST70 | March 22, 2019

@lbowroom- you are correct!
@howard - you are a dumb@ss!

kevin_rf | March 22, 2019

For it to work without Performance owners breaking out the pitch forks, Tesla would need to go with the charging more for EAP/FSD after purchase model. Meaning, charging $12k or more for it.

That way everyone can be satisfied and no one will feel cheated.

Of course, this is coming from the owner that after 14k miles has yet to take it out of chill...

johnw | March 22, 2019

@kevin_rf Say it ain't so!!!!

Just kidding- are you a hyper-miler? My average wh/mile is just over 300 after 12k miles. I've got a stealth P3D

wfickas | March 22, 2019

Would happily pay to get a software upgrade for extra acceleration on my DM. The main reason I didn't opt for the Performance is not wanting lowered suspension or 20" wheels.

TM3Q | March 22, 2019

@wfickas

Good point!

Also I didn’t realize that Performance model was also Dual Motor! I taught it was like RWD but with high current drive for the motor! Oh boy I really was blind on this one lol I believe I fell in love last year with the LR Dual Motor that I didn’t consider the Performance because I think had only one motor ouppssssssss (only realize this year it had 2 frigging Motors lollllllllllllll) Funny how the brain can trick you sometimes when you already choosen the ONE :-)

cmh95628 | March 22, 2019

I expect that Elon's statement regarding binning of the P motors is true. I suspect that the vast majority of M3 AWD (non-P) rear motors are capable of a 0-60 time in the range of 3.3 seconds to 4.2 seconds (in conjunction with the front motor of course). I doubt Tesla knows how each of theses motors performed on the dyno (for binning of the P motors) so they would have to pick some number that they could guaranty at about 95% certainty. If that was a 4.0 second 0-60 time (for example, via software unlock) what would it be worth to folks? I'm thinking maybe $2500 for me.

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