Forums

Marketing Claims

Marketing Claims

I don't know about anyone else (actually I do) but I've been following this car for a very long time. And throughout that entire time Tesla has boldly, and repeatedly made the claim that they could deliver an all electric sedan that could go from 0-60 in 5.6 seconds for $49,900 (after incentives). Did they? I say they didn't. In fact they say so right on their options listing page. Yet, maybe because we love the car so much, none of us are willing to say anything about this? Shouldn't we be honest enough to call this what it is, regardless of our support for the car?

Timo | December 23, 2011

I count 19 messages from other people and 50 messages total. That's 31 messages from you mscottring. Maybe it is time to take a breather?

mscottring | December 23, 2011

Timo - You're seriously counting my messages? You made me just spit out perfectly good wine I laughed so hard. Good lord man, find something better to do.

mscottring | December 23, 2011

Timo - Maybe you hadn't noticed, in your haste to count up those messages of mine. But I'm being attacked on a personal level, simply for having an opinion that is in opposition to what others seem to want to believe, and sticking to it. I repeated, several times now, that I wanted to DROP THIS SUBJECT, and was still attacked. And you're telling me to take a breather? Really?

Let me make this as clear as possible. If someone posts something here I will reply to it. If people want this issue to die then let it. Simple really, unless the person reading this is as well.

GoTeslaChicago | December 23, 2011

Mscottring

I think you have a bad case of 'last word itis'.

Chicago.

GoTeslaChicago | December 23, 2011

'last word itis'

Definition: overriding need to get in the last word, no matter what

engle | December 23, 2011

Where this Thread Ends
based upon Where the Sidewalk Ends by Shel Silverstein

"There is a place where this thread ends
And before the street begins,
And there the grass grows soft and white,
And there the sun burns crimson bright,
And there the moon-bird rests from his flight
To cool in the peppermint wind.

Let us leave this place where the smoke blows black
And the dark street winds and bends.
Past the pits where the asphalt flowers grow
We shall walk with a walk that is measured and slow,
And watch where the chalk-white arrows go
To the place where this thread ends.

Yes we'll walk with a walk that is measured and slow,
And we'll go where the chalk-white arrows go,
For the children, they mark, and the children, they know
The place where this thread ends."

Happy Holidays from YATF (Yet Another Tesla Fanboy!)

mscottring | December 23, 2011

Oh good lord, why make this personal? Is there a way to delete an entire thread? If so, do tell. I'll be better off discussing this issue with the media anyway.

stephen.kamichik | December 23, 2011

Here is a possibility. TM was testing their prototypes and found out that the smaller battery packs yield higher 0-60 times. This all happened after the factory reveal.

mscottring | December 23, 2011

Stephen - Here's another possibility (actually being discussed on at least one other Tesla web site). Tesla has known from day one that the only way they could reach that 0-60 time was with the 300 mile battery pack. They didn't release the information because it would impact the level of reservations coming in.

RobPaul | December 23, 2011

For heavens sake folks! Just take a deep breath and realize that we are NOT talking about BMW, GM, or even Saab... Tesla has made a total run of what, 8 cars??? How in the hell can you compare a start-up automobile manufacturer with a small population of dedicated employees that are working 80 hour weeks to CREATE something from scratch, to missing a meaningless marketing goal of X.Y seconds from 0 - 60...

Obviously, mscottring has never been on the bleeding edge of creating something from nothing and does not have the heart nor the intellect to fully comprehend the endeavor being accomplished here.

Personally, having been fully through this in 3 Silicon Valley high tech start-ups before, I suggest that mscottring should go buy a Leaf. It is just another crappy car by a "real" manufacturer that you can meaninglessly complain about for days on end for the lack of range, lack of performance, unsightly design, whatever... He and someone else can blame the 10,000 engineers of Nissan for failure. Have a ball.

But if you want to participate in the genesis of "something from nothing", then watch the Tesla franchise going forward. Yes, mistakes will undoubtedly be made, but not from design and bad intent, but from trying to invent from scratch and not quite meeting the goal.

I for one say, "Bravo Tesla!" I am here for you! And I am not alone.

mscottring | December 23, 2011

Robpaul - I retired before 40, in silicon valley. Next?

David M. | December 23, 2011

@mscottring,
So what? We are all successful. Big deal. That's how we can afford to consider an expensive car at a time when many can't put food on the table. You've created five new topics and dozens of posts all because of your erroneous assumption over 0.9 seconds? So you assumed all versions of the car would have the same acceleration and they don't. Big deal. They will all still run like a V8.

Here's the big picture my friend. We're making history here (if the Model S is successful). It blows my mind that you would trash the company, and kill the dream, and send us back to another 100 years of big oil, all over 0.9 seconds? Think it through. Give it a rest.

There's a lot more at stake here than 0.9 seconds.

Dennisf | December 24, 2011

test

Dennisf | December 24, 2011

Hey I can post after three weeks!!! :) Excuse me for my "test" reply.

On Topic again!

I understand (a bit) where mscottring is coming from. But please keep in mind that we all haven't bought anything yet.

This is the first time in my life that I paid money to get in line for a car. If you told me a year ago that I was going to pay to get in line for a car I would have laughed and told you that in my life this would never happen. Well the truth is different, I paid to get in line only to be part of something that is going to be the next big thing as the iPhone.

When I made my reservation I looked at the battery size as if it was a smaller or bigger gas tank. But now I understand that the battery pack is part of the engine size. Bigger battery pack is bigger engine size.

10k for each second faster from 0-60 is a lot of money, but in this case it gives you a bigger range too. Let's be honest, how many times a day do you floor it and go from 0-60 as fast as possible in your current car? Once a week? Once every day. I couldn't care if it is 6,5, 5,6 or 4,4. In everyday driving it would only mean an empty battery quicker.

If Tesla sold your reservation on a 5,6 0-60 time with the smallest pack and it is 6,5 and you can't live with it I think you should reconsider the whole car. Have we been misled or betrayed? No, the car still has to be produced, we haven't bought anything yet and we can all get a refund of our money. Things would have been different if the car already was on your driveway and you would have found the slower 0-60 out.

So let's all take a deep breath and start looking for the things we love about the car. Therefore I would love to hear what the standard package includes with the car.

cybercop | December 24, 2011

Why are people so threatened when someone points out some (even minor) disappointment? The cult of Tesla was sort of fun to get caught up in for awhile, but the ugly side is coming out here. Many of you are exhibiting a disturbing love it or leave it attitude. How about some tolerance and understanding. We are pretty emotional about this product (and yes, I can now say we since I am now P 6299), and it is sometimes not going to meet everyone's expectations. Failure to meet expectations means disappointment, even if temporary or mild. Feeling like expectations were caused by someone who did not meet them means anger. These are not unique or unfamiliar concepts. There is little use in pointing out why the person's expectations were unrealistic while they are still hurting.

cybercop | December 24, 2011

Oh, and repeated posts saying essentially "you post too much on this" is among the least appreciated topics across the Internet. Yes, I am aware of the irony of this post.

pbrulott | December 24, 2011

Guys, IMO nobody is right or wrong here. True it was a deception for me that the base car (my pick) will be slower and is different from advertized. This is not enough to change my mind though. Most of us suffer from quasi unconditional love for the car. This is only an example that we need to be raisonable. We all have a level of tolerance that we are not ready to go over for the love of the car (compare this to the women of your dream, really beautiful, but not ready to endure anything to stick with her)

By the way

First time I get in line/pay a reservation fee for a car. It means I believe in the car. However it is the first time I will pay that much money for a car and for that reason I am not ready for too much compromize.

In my own decision balance: Strike one is the supercharger network, strike 2 is the 1 sec acceleration difference and the fact that I will have to wait until 2013 for sure to get the car. Waiting for Canadian pricing and winter condition performance which could be strike 3.

nhurst | December 24, 2011

Come on car guys. You should be aware that there have been numerous controversies about 0-60 time with numerous excellent manufacturers. There has been confusion about 0-60 mph vs 0-100 km/hr. There have been numerous instances where the manufacturers claim differs from a reviewers number. There has been controversy about with or without launch control. There has been discussion about base model / price vs optioned model / price. There has been outrage over what tires were used for the quoted specifications. Etc, Etc. Give it a break. Understand the situation and have a good holiday season looking forward to an S or not.

stephen.kamichik | December 24, 2011

The 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds is still faster than my 1999 BMW 328i. It cost new about $57,400 with NO government incentives (I bought it used).

mscottring | December 24, 2011

David - "You've created five new topics and dozens of posts all because of your erroneous assumption over 0.9 seconds?"

False. Try sticking to the facts.

mscottring | December 24, 2011

If there's one thing I've learned through the decades it's this. When the conversation turns from attacking the message to attacking the messenger, there's usually more than a little truth to the message.

Brian H | December 24, 2011

What's with the "300 mile pack required"? Doesn't the 230 also do 5.6? It's only the 160 which is underpowered to reach that.

mscottring | December 24, 2011

The 60kw pack does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds. The only battery pack that does 0-60 in 5.6 is the 85kwh.

mscottring | December 24, 2011

It's my understanding that the lower level battery packs could potentially hit this 5.6 benchmark, but most likely not often (and I'm not sure this is correct, could be speculation). There are technical reasons why the lower battery packs can't do it, and I totally understand why.

mscottring | December 24, 2011

While there has been rather extensive effort to make this issue about me in some way, it isn't. I've tried, through various posts, to make it clear that this complaint has nothing at all to do with me, my love of the car, or my decision to buy the car. People are missing the big picture here, in my opinion. Tesla is trying to gain trust with the world, not an easy thing to do for a young start up automotive company. Missteps will be amplified, by the media, and most certainly by the ICE vehicle manufacturers, who really would rather not see Tesla succeed. So, while it can be argued that this issue means nothing to those of us on this forum who have the means to buy whichever Model S they prefer to buy, give a moment to pause. Now think about the rest of the world, and those who were anxiously waiting for a new electric car that they thought (whether rightly or wrongly) that was going to meet all of these specifications at the amazingly low price of only $49,900.

David M. | December 24, 2011

@mscottring,
You may have lost track of all of the new topics you created in the last two days. Looking at the Model S forum topics, in the column that is titled "Created", it clearly shows you have created five separate topics in the last 2 days, to discuss the same complaint. Each of those topics holds a dozen or more posts by you. In some cases 3 or 4 in a row.

Unfortunately this is FACT.

I am no fan of paying $4 a gallon for gas. And I do not want our kids paying $8 to $10 a gallon in 10 or 15 years because we were all too short sighted to make an investment in alternatives for the future. So Tesla is leading the charge and dragging the industry forward. There are lots of EV haters who want to maintain status quo, but there are few supporters. We each must decide where we stand. This is a fragile moment.

mscottring | December 24, 2011

David - I can actually read. This is the ONLY topic I created with the specific intent of discussing the 0-60 issue. I have created other topics, but not to discuss this issue. Please stick to the facts.

mscottring | December 24, 2011

David - Here's what I don't get. Overall, since I first joined this forum, my comments have been extremely positive about the Model S. I've made repeated comments about the car, and how great it is, on multiple threads, multiple times. Nobody is counting those positive comments, and making negative comments about how many times I say something positive. Yet, if I have ANYTHING negative to say, let the counting begin? This is crazy. People have a right to their opinion. Don't like it, don't read it. But don't keep trying to find some way to shut those negative comments down, simply because you disagree with them.

David M. | December 24, 2011

@mscottring,
Fair enough. I've had some negative posts too, but we can't forget the press reads these too, and they don't give a hoot about our positive posts. That's not news. Negative news sells. They want anything they can get to fuel the fire and support their claims that nobody wants EVs.

I've been disappointed on occasion with some of Tesla's decisions (like the beta dashboard, and lately the Tech pkg), but I keep reminding myself that there are much bigger things going on, as we all know. The EV1 and RAV4 EV came and went for really stupid (and self-serving) reasons. Think of how much further along we would be now, had we not lost those 10 years.

mscottring | December 24, 2011

David - Again, I love the car. I can't wait to get my hands on it, and I'm a huge proponent of if. I've told I don't know how many people they need to get on this reservation list, now, today. I'm a firm believer in the company, the car and the technology. I see your point about the press. But that's what was lost in all of this. My goal is to bring issues to Tesla's attention, so that they can react to it, BEFORE the press can have anything to say about it. I WANT Tesla to succeed.

Sat | December 24, 2011

test

Sat | December 24, 2011

test

pbrulott | December 24, 2011

Taking 5 min during my christmas party...

i believe the 0-60mph is not the only thing that Telsa didn't deliver on. the 30 min charge is also something not available on the 49K version, and it was advertised doing so.

Merry Christmas to all. Barely made it with a white Christmas this year. next year, I hope to receive my TMS at that same time

Brian H | December 24, 2011

David M. | December 24, 2011 new

@mscottring,
Fair enough. I've had some negative posts too, but we can't forget the press reads these too, and they don't give a hoot about our positive posts. That's not news. Negative news sells. They want anything they can get to fuel the fire and support their claims that nobody wants EVs.

I've been disappointed on occasion with some of Tesla's decisions (like the beta dashboard, and lately the Tech pkg), but I keep reminding myself that there are much bigger things going on, as we all know. The EV1 and RAV4 EV came and went for really stupid (and self-serving) reasons.

Not so stupid; they were losing money hand over fist on them. I think much of Elon's genius is having been able to avoid that. Remember the $90K Roadster that cost $140K to build? Getting that under control put the Fear of Dog into him!

;)

Jerry | December 26, 2011

BTW, is there a private TM forums between only TM and owners? I agree with both mscottring and brian's posts. I want TM to succeed, but I'd like to point out (and hopefully give them time to correct or address owner issues) in private without any random person reading these forums.

Larry Chanin | December 26, 2011

Hi Jerry,

This forum has a private message feature that can only be read by owners and reservation holders.

Larry

Mycroft | December 26, 2011

Jerry, there is no "owners" only forum. You're pretty much limited to emails and phone calls with your Tesla reps.

Pages