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Mileage on one charge

Mileage on one charge

I have a 90D and I have been disappointed in the mileage I am getting. On a full charge, which little green battery symbol says I am at 280 miles, I get if I am lucky 200 miles. I am not driving super speeds or doing anything crazy. I thought for sure I would get much closer. When I charge it to the 80% amount, it says 258 miles, but I never get more than 160. Have other people experienced this? Is something wrong with my car? When I supercharge it from 20% it takes over an hour.

Also, I was told at the time of my purchase that I would eventually be able to upgrade the battery to 100KW. Is that possible and if so how much?

Sorry, I know that is a lot of question...

hammer @OR-US | January 30, 2017

Where do you live? What is the temperature?

hammer @OR-US | January 30, 2017

From the
http://teslatap.com/articles/owners+manual+companion/

The EPA ratings of the Model S vary from 210 for 60-non-D to 315 for P100D. Most drivers won’t achieve these numbers on a regular basis due to the following factors:

Elevation: Large elevation change is the biggest factor in a Tesla’s range. When traveling up a steep incline, the battery will deplete much more rapidly than at the same speed on level terrain. Elevation drops are your friend, regen will add energy back into the battery.
Weather: Batteries are less efficient in colder weather. Also, a lot of battery power is diverted to battery maintenance and cabin warming which affects reduces range. Wet pavement and snowy roads also reduce range.
Speed: The faster you go the more energy it takes to overcome wind resistance.
Acceleration: Just like in conventional cars jack rabbit starts wreak havoc on mileage. If you combine launching with driving fast, you will deplete the battery extremely fast.
Tires: Summer tires are stickier than winter tires and reduce range. New tires need to be broken in and some owners have reported reduced range until they’ve put over 1000 miles on new tires.
HVAC: AC does affect range a bit but not nearly as much as heat does.
It all comes down to Wh/m, Watt hours per mile. An 85-kWh battery has 75.9 kWh of energy available to use. The remaining 9.1 kWh is reserved as a battery buffer to prevent bricking. So, we have 75,900 Wh of energy to go 265 miles in an S85 which means you’d need to average 287 Wh/mile to attain that mileage. JT’s lifetime Wh/m average is 346, therefore his rated range on a full charge gets me 219 miles. I live in the Northeast and naturally do much better in the warmer months (@307 Wh/m). TeslaTap’s lifetime Wh/m average is 327 in sunny California.

EVRider | January 30, 2017

See this section of the Owner's Manual Companion: http://teslatap.com/articles/owners-manual-companion/#charging

EVRider | January 30, 2017

Didn't see @hammer's last reply when I posted mine.

hammer @OR-US | January 30, 2017

Great Minds :)

kevin | January 30, 2017

Before I could comment I would need to know temperature, changes in elevation, weather (rain, snow), headwind, speed and cargo weight.

drew | January 30, 2017

Range seems totally a function of driving style, temperature and amount of stop and go.

EVRider | January 30, 2017

@joel: Regarding your comment about supercharging time, the charging rate slows down a lot when the battery approached full charge. If you're driving long distances, you only need to charge long enough to reach your next charger or final destination, plus an extra 20% or so in case you overestimate your range. If you're not driving long distances, you're not really supposed to use a supercharger, but in any case you should never charge to 100% (even at home) unless you really need to.

Rocky_H | January 30, 2017

@joel, Also, can we get a little more detail on how the total miles are done? Is this like charged on one day, and then several short trips over a couple of days before charging again? Or is this from one long continuous drive of 160 miles? Have you put the Energy app on the touch screen display to see what the average energy use shows for the past 15 or 30 miles of driving? That would help a lot to see how the energy use is doing.

I saw you said 90D. Is this a Model S or Model X?

joel | January 30, 2017

Sorry, I thought I provided a lot of details, but I clearly did not. Here is more info.... Model s. I Live in Las Vegas and the temperature during winter ranges from 45-65 degrees. This distance is one charge over a couple of days. However, I do have several full drives on one charge where I do not do much better. No I never charge it 100% unless I am going on a trip. Nevada is both flat and hilly so it depends, but I am aware of when I am going up or down hill.

Pleasanton_Ca | January 30, 2017

I think @drew, summed it up, "driving style". Mine is pretty consistent. If I am going A to B = 100 miles, I will use up 125 ~130 miles. My driving style is hard...

radami2 | January 30, 2017

Yes. A lot depends on driving style. My wife has a herky jerky style and her average is about 330-360wh/mi. I tend to use tacc a lot and I go 250-300 depending on the weather.

Darthamerica | January 30, 2017

I see about 6-20% less actual range vs EPA rated miles due to the variables previously mentioned. If however I'm able to have open roads @ 65-75F temps then I'll be +/- 5%EPA rated range. Overall after 30,000+ miles with a P90D is 323 Wh/Mi.

The key thing for day to day is not to obsess over getting the exact EPA mileage as there are just too many uncontrolled variables and you'll drive yourself crazy. As long as you have enough battery at the start of the day to cover your commute which in 95% of use cases a 90D should have no problem doing. For road trips assume 75-80% of whatever range the car says and you should be ok.

This isn't a Tesla problem, any EV will perform like this outside of a controlled environment. ICE cars too which is why the MPG is usual a range. We just don't notice it as much because it's easier and quicker to find fuel vs a place to charge.

miyamky | January 30, 2017

Question, you said you charged to 100%. How often do you do that and do you drive your car very soon after charging is complete?

ken.hixson | January 30, 2017

An item to watch is the dashed lines along the outside circle of the Energy Consumption graphic below the "0" reference point on the lower right side. When you have these it means braking regen is not available which by default means the battery is cold and a lot of energy is being spent on warming up the battery.

You temperature doesn't seem too cold but your range will improve when the temperature rises as the battery is probably still a bit cold and some energy is being used to condition the battery.

Very small discharge when parked but will play a small part when you don't charge every day - which is just fine.

Cabin heating will consume a fair amount but not the big factor which is mostly driving style. You will never get EPA unless you like the gradual acceleration and use the brake a lot instead of Regen.

All contribute and all lower the range but I do not hear of too many people in normal driving that get near the EPA rating. The bigger number you should watch is your average WattHour/mi consumption. Put the Energy graph on the front instrument panel and watch how much time you spend above and below the average wH/mi line (which also goes up and down).

Even this month when I was on the freeway for about a hundred miles I was able to get around 286 wh/mi but driving to and from work on a consistent basis and many short errand running type trips will be much lower (I am usually in the high 300s).

Put the trip meter on the left side of the instrument panel and watch the This Trip vs the Trip A (don't reset trip A each time) and let it be an average over several trips and you will see how much the errand running type trips (especially in the cold) affect your wh/mi.

bill | January 30, 2017

280 miles on a fully charged 90D seems low. Mine is 296.

bill | January 30, 2017

"Also, I was told at the time of my purchase that I would eventually be able to upgrade the battery to 100KW. Is that possible and if so how much?"

I would have gotten that in writing.

Since they are not telling people who want to upgrade their ordered but not received 90Ds I doubt that will be an option or at least at a reasonable price.

plugzin | January 30, 2017

I saw 299 on my 90D the last time I charged to 100%, which was a few weeks ago.

ST70 | January 30, 2017

I usually use about 40% more than advertised...but I like to drive

vaticanoptimist | January 30, 2017

I live in Wisconsin, winter is 414 wh/m

tes-s | January 30, 2017

Curious if the part of your purchase agreement that says you can upgrade to a 100kWh battery has a price listed for the upgrade?

mjames | January 30, 2017

I have a P90D in Los Angeles, run the car in Range mode. When I charge it to 272 lbs, I get about 235 miles. My style is modest.

High Plains Drifter | January 31, 2017

Highway speed limits in Nevada are among the highest in the nation. The Tesla mileage estimates are based on a much lower highway speeds.

cquail | January 31, 2017

Tire pressure also influences range. My door says tire pressure should be 50 psi. I have 65K miles on our S85D and the lifetime watts per mile is 301. What is the recommend tire pressure on the 90D?

Rocky_H | January 31, 2017

Hey, @joel, thanks for coming back.

Quote: “Sorry, I thought I provided a lot of details, but I clearly did not.”

Well, being new to it, you don’t know what information is important yet or maybe where to look for it.

Quote: “This distance is one charge over a couple of days.”

Yeah, this can make quite a difference and will skew the results quite a bit. As a for example, my work is about 2 miles from my house, so just barely over 4 mile round trip. In the winter, that sometimes uses 6-8 miles off my display—as much as double. That won’t keep up over a long drive, but when the car has gotten to sit out in the cold for a few hours, the energy usage can be intensely high for the first several minutes when it tries to warm up the battery pack and the inside of the car. People are used to a gas car, where it is blowing two thirds of the energy of the gasoline out the tailpipe and the radiator. It has to do everything it can to get rid of heat, so heating the inside of the car is always free. There’s barely any waste heat from an electric motor, though, because they are so efficient, so warming up the inside of the car is just like running a space heater in your house. It’s a resistive coil using electricity. And since there is just one big battery that runs everything, all of the heating comes from the same source as your “miles” and uses them up.

This also gets to the main reason why you are noticing this and concerned about it. Gas engines are so inefficient, losing most of their energy, that even fairly big inefficiencies can come and go, and you can’t even see them in your gas mileage number. But with an electric drivetrain being 80-90% efficient, any extra loss moves the needle more and it’s noticeable.

You saw a few people mention the number wh/mi. That is watt hours per mile, and is your efficiency number. In the U.S. we measure gas mileage in miles per gallon, so a higher number is more efficient, getting more distance from the fuel. In Europe, though, they use a measurement that is the inverse of that. It’s liters per 100 kilometers. That measuring how much fuel consumption for a fixed distance, so a lower number is more efficient. That is the way the watt hours per mile is in the Tesla. Lower number is more efficient.

The front display can be toggled in the settings from showing a straight up % full of the battery, or “miles”. That number of so-called “miles” is based on a fixed consumption rate of a little under 300 wh/mi, which was calculated from the EPA test process. As with any car, when they show the mpg number on the window sticker, that’s a little optimistic, because it’s at 55mph and no heat, etc. If you’re driving 82mph on the interstate, you’re not going to get that mpg number on the sticker.

So to match up 1 to 1 with the rated miles number on the dashboard, the wh/mi number in the energy app would need to stay just barely under 300. It probably won’t be in your normal driving, so you might be averaging something like 350 from faster speeds than the EPA test conditions. In the first few miles, it might be 400 or 500 while it’s heating up the car.

If you want to go deep into this, there are lots of discussion threads about it here, which I’ll paste below, but a couple of quick tips are:
(1) Don’t worry about it. Usually you’re not going far enough for it to matter.
(2) Driving speed is the biggest factor by far, so on a longer trip, that’s the main thing you can control to extend your range. You might be surprised at the huge difference it makes to go 75 instead of 82mph. People have done over 500 miles in a Tesla with low enough speed just to show it could be done. Your temperatures aren’t very cold there, but I’m thinking your speed might be the biggest factor for the short range.
(3) Seat heaters use far less energy applying the heat directly to your body than heating up the air in the car a lot, where it gets lost quickly to cold windows and air leakage. Maybe use the seat heaters more and turn the temp down a few degrees.
(4) If you want to miles to match up closer when you’re driving, go ahead and warm the car up some while it’s still plugged in. It doesn’t have to be hours, but 8 or 10 minutes can cut off some of that high energy use when you first start driving.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/model-s-performance-winter-canada

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/coping-winter-weather-already-yes

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/what-difference-does-cold-weather-...

bp | February 1, 2017

Tesla's "range Per Charge" estimator on the website tops out at 70 MPH. Above that, energy consumption increases.

On road trips, with our classic S P85, we assume that actual range will be 30-40% less than the rated range, depending upon temperature, highway speed, congestion (slowing down/speeding up), wind, and elevation changes.

When planning to purchase a replacement for our P85, we decided to wait for the 100D. For planning purposes, I've been using a "practical range" estimate to project what typical highway range would be, for a given battery pack size.

Starting with the rated range, the following adjustments are made to calculate practical range:

> reduce range by 5%, what many are reporting as the natural battery pack degradation over time
> reduce range by 20%, since most driving is done between 10-90%
> reduce range by 30%, the average reduction we've seen for highway driving

Combining the above, means the "practical" range is 53% of the rated range or 59% if charged to 100%.

For our classic P85, that puts the practical range at 140 miles, which is consistent with our experience on road trips. When the gap between superchargers approaches 120-140 miles, we've had to slow down sometimes to stretch the charge and make it to the next charger.

With the new S 100D, the rated range is 335 miles - and the practical range (at 90% charge) is 177 miles. While a difference in only 37 miles doesn't seem that significant, based on the current supercharger spacing, that additional 37 miles is enough to likely ensure we can drive between superchargers without slowing down.

ICEs have the same issue - mileage drops considerably at highway speeds, so it's not surprising to see something similar with long range EVs.

And, it's possible Tesla could make future drive train improvements to increase range at highway speeds.