# Forums

## Miles per kwh?

Okay, I'm really new to this EV stuff so bare w me.
Just a basic question, for basic commute type driving...
What's a typical number of miles per kwh of electric charge?
Thanks..

stsanford | July 10, 2013

In my 60 I'm seeing:
276 (seen today) for really range-enhancing... Not a whole lot of fun. You accelerate slower than a Prius and do 55...
305 for leisurely, conservative driving.
370-385 for driving it as spiritedly as I would a Porsche...

SCCRENDO | July 10, 2013

i see similar for my 85. trips to higher altitudes use more and the return trips less

Anthony H | July 10, 2013

Your maximum average speed makes a huge difference.
Change in altitude or hills makes a huge difference.

lolachampcar | July 10, 2013

and that is WHr/mile not KWHr/mile :)
put differently, use .31 KWHr/mile or, at 11 cents per KWHr of energy, 3.4 cents per mile.

cloroxbb | July 10, 2013

Theoretical since everyone else is giving you wh/mile, if the 85 gives you 265 miles, then it would give you about 3.11 miles/kwh. Though that will vary a lot depending on driving habits.

cloroxbb | July 10, 2013

Using lola's stat, it would be 3.22 miles/kwh

TomasT | July 10, 2013

In general I get 3.5 miles per kWh. That's driving it like a normal car. Sometimes spirited, sometimes conservatively.

SUN 2 DRV | July 10, 2013

Todd

You can expect somewhere between 2.5 to 3 miles per kwh, obviously your driving style has a major influence. Note that charging efficiency also needs to be factored in (and will reduce these numbers) if you want to calculate how much more energy you'll draw from the utility or your solar panels.

Bob W | July 10, 2013

@ToddMG:

Please define what you mean by "Basic commute type driving." Stop and go on the freeway during rush hour, or mostly 70 mph driving plus a few miles of surface streets? Hilly or flat?

The Trip Meter (Controls -> Trips/Range) shows you what you are actually averaging in terms of energy use, over the long term (until you reset it).

So far I've collected data from 20 different Model S's using this survey form and a tally sheet I kept at the Menlo Park Coffee on July 7th.

Here are the sorted results from 20 different Model S's of all types (using Trip meter data for longest trip in the display):

Wh/mi
319 Slow and careful drivers
319
321
324
324
326
330
330 (Median = 331)
332
334
335
339 (Average = 341.7)
353
363
404
414 Dealer demo P85+ car

However, the "EPA Rated Range" displayed on the instrument panel is calculated using 300 to 307 Wh/mi (cause of variance not apparent from the data), which means that the rated range displayed by the Model S is just too optimistic, by 3 to 30%, depending on your own driving style.

Note also that you don't get to use all 85 kWh in the battery, but only about 81.6 kWh before the rated range display reaches 0 miles. The car will still go another 10-15 miles after it reaches "empty" (0 rated miles), but it's best to avoid such situations.

dayoreo | July 10, 2013

I have 5,300 miles averaging 296 wh/miles.

Yes, I used A/C and Heat. I use cruise control and drive speed limit plus 5 mph. In Connecticut

Michael S | July 10, 2013

good rule of thumb (so u don't run out of juice) 3 miles per kwh. should get u there very time.

campsalvage | July 10, 2013

279 wh/m to date. Going to break 5000 miles tomorrow.
Jeff

ToddMG | July 10, 2013

Please define what you mean by "Basic commute type driving." Stop and go on the freeway during rush hour, or mostly 70 mph driving plus a few miles of surface streets? Hilly or flat?
=======
40 mile commute each way, 95% freeway, moderate traffic, 70-75 mph at times but average speed = 45 mph, mostly flat, few hills.

Thanks for all the info!

lyle_whitcomb | February 17, 2015

I have Model S 85k with 20,804 miles using 6,499.9kWh for an average 312.4 Wh/mi. About one-half of those miles have been at normal highway speeds +/- five mph up and down the west coast, otherwise typical 30-to-40 mile local trips, 80% freeway, one steep hill approaching home base.

Vicelike | February 17, 2015

367 for my S85+ 11,000 San Diego Miles

Some fast, some slow, lots of hills.

The hill data is pretty ugly.

Vicelike | February 17, 2015

georgehawley.fl.us | February 17, 2015

Florida flatness and mild temperatures aid S85 economy: 290 WH/mi. In first week of ownership.

Chunky Jr. | February 17, 2015

To convert Wh/mi to mi/KwH..

mi/kwh = 1 / ( # Wh/mi ) * 1000

e.g.
280 Wh/mi = 1/280 * 1000 = 3.57 mi/KwH
330 Wh/m = 1/330 * 100 = 3.03 mi/KwH

Roamer@AZ USA | February 17, 2015

@chunky. easier to just do it this way

1000 / Watt hours per mile = Miles per KwH.

Same formula just easier to do in your head if you simplify it.

Roamer@AZ USA | February 17, 2015

Three miles per KwH plus or minus a 1/2 mile.

Chunky Jr. | February 17, 2015

@Roamer : I have been relying on compilers for far too long to simplify things like that for me, to the point where I didn't think about simplifying it! Thanks for pointing that out.

KidDoc | February 17, 2015

In Texas so fairly fast driving, my 21k miles average is 340 wh/mile

Roamer@AZ USA | February 17, 2015

@Chunky, Us old guys always look for the easy way out.

I had to smile that we Tesla people put up all kinds of data and information to answer a really simple, really basic question.

Sometimes we people in Tesla land can make an answer to a simple question very complicated.

Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk and cut with an axe.

or

around three miles per KwH.

Brian H | February 18, 2015

Kwh?? kWh!! Watt, not watt. Because it's a name.

Webcrawler | February 18, 2015

22,000 miles and life time average is 300Wh/mile...

bambrosanio | February 18, 2015

13k on my 85 357kw/m on average :( what am I doing wrong? Mostly driving on 405 and pch. Charged at the recommended 90% I also noticed a drop of 7 miles in range... Anyone else experiencing this or is it just calculating from my average energy consumption?

AmpedRealtor | February 18, 2015

2013 P85 here...

Lifetime average consumption = 294 Wh/mi
Total mileage driven: 20,805 miles

Miles per kWh = 3.4

brian | February 18, 2015

No offense but who really cares? I am 408 on average, but I drive the hell out of the car, my life not sitting in traffic if worth more than a marginal Wh/mi. My fear is the pansy Prius hyper mileage people drive these like golf carts, as they do the Prius. If you buy this car you have already done your part, do everyone a favor and not be the slow boat like every prius in the world. If you want to save on carbon, get a solar panel system. Slowing down traffic is putting a burden on everyone else and making them consume more fuel and thereby actually increasing carbon emissions. this is not a single person sport, if a big SUV has to brake for your slow arse, you just wasted for society more carbon than you saved.

DavetheSmelter | February 19, 2015

So far in a P85D the life average with only six weeks and dead of winter is about 360
On nice days and driving nice I can get it down too the 320s
Short commutes and using it all and driving it like a sports car gets me into the 550s for two mile or less trips.

I also want to add that I have been floring it. driving the car with several hundred pounds of load and gear and passangers on road trips, I am work horsing the thing as it is a tool to be used for business and transportation.

on the above comment before I was using a prius for the same job. and drove it too the max for all its 295 lbs of torque and 115 hp could give, drove it everywhere at 80 to 85mph and it finaly started giving out over 260,000 miles. Needing a battery replacement and burning a quart of oil every fill up. Average of 38 mpg and I drove it to death.
That car however saved a lot of gas because before that I was driving a 78 corvette with a rebuilt engine built to late sixties specs and that was fun. but the 12mpg and need for repair all the time got annoying. And having a kid put a crimp on the whole sports car two seat life but it was what I could afford when I was in high school and put over 100k miles on the second engin, now on the third.

Thank goodness for Tesla, I get the best of all worlds. A big family car that can carry a lot, safe, no gas. and preformes better than the old corvette with all the comforts too.

redacted | February 19, 2015

~3.1 kWh/mi. Varies with weather.

Inverse of relevant: 10 (did you guys actually comprehend the question?)
Me too!: 1
Explanations of basic math (may have an answer included somewhere): 2

Grinnin'.VA | February 19, 2015

@ brian | February 18, 2015

No offense but who really cares?

Lots of MS owners care about Wh/mi whether you like it or not.

My fear is the pansy Prius hyper mileage people drive these like golf carts, as they do the Prius.

Really? You fear Prius owners trying to get good mileage!

I've driven a Prius for several years, getting over 40 mpg for real, with good weather and bad as well as hills and stop lights. On the road, always over the posted speed limit, I've gotten between 45 mpg and 50 mpg, depending on the circumstances. Hell, I've had stretches at about 75 mph getting about 45 mpg. When my Prius waits at a stop light beside another car, 90% of the time I accelerate ahead of the other car.

I'd be sympathetic with your fear if I believed you. Since I don't believe your post is honest, I'm inclined to think of it as an intentional insult. Would you please help me understand your good intention, if any?

Bighorn | February 19, 2015
AAviator | February 19, 2015

After 10 months and 30k miles...

330 in summer with summer tires and a lead foot.
390ish in the winter with Michelin X-ICE3 tires, a lead foot, and a lot of driving around 0 degrees F....

Trip to work is 140 miles round trip and 1300 feet of elevation change plus 2-3 Bridges in NYC depending on route taken. Around town driving can be a 1200 foot elevation change in 5 miles.

I reset trip B for the season. Trip A average is around 340 for life of car. I almost never put the car in range mode...

S85. Mobileye 560 and K40 added aftermarket

Cheers
A

AmpedRealtor | February 19, 2015

@ brian,

My fear is the pansy Prius hyper mileage people drive these like golf carts, as they do the Prius. If you buy this car you have already done your part, do everyone a favor and not be the slow boat like every prius in the world. If you want to save on carbon, get a solar panel system.

I'm one of those people. Hi there! Very pleased to meet you. Efficiency is important to me. My lifetime efficiency is at 294 Wh/mi. I care about the pollution that goes into the air. Doing my part doesn't end with buying the car. It never ends. I'm doing my part 24/7/365. Oh yah, and I also have a 14k solar array on my roof. Yep, doing my part... all without being a douche-bag on the road.

Slowing down traffic is putting a burden on everyone else and making them consume more fuel and thereby actually increasing carbon emissions.

Actually not true. The most efficient speed for Model S is under 40 MPH. The efficiency of most ICE vehicles is also inversely proportional to speed due to the effect of drag and rolling resistance. So if you were to slow down from 80 MPH to 65 MPH because you are stuck behind a Prius, wipe your tears away with the fact that you are driving more efficiently and those behind you are also increasing their MPG efficiency.

You seem to think that flooring it and getting to your destination is a more efficient way of driving. What you save in clock ticks you more than lose in efficiency. Your relatively high average 408 Wh/mi consumption speaks to that and undermines the argument you are trying to make at the very end.

If you ever drive behind me, I certainly hope you have TACC on your car.

brian | February 20, 2015

@Grinnin'.us.VA and @AmpedRealtor

My point is simple - driving a car (prius) the most efficient way is not efficient for everyone else and in doing so it actually hurts society and carbon emission more that what was saved.

We come from different parts of the US, my electricity is produced from either my solar arrays (not so good in the winter) of via hydro/wind, given I live in the NW US and I pay the uplift for green energy with PGE for electricity. I get it, if your electric is produced from dirtier methods you should be more sensitive to your energy usage and therefore your carbon, but I would argue that the vast majority of the "Prius" owners that drive in this manner create traffic jams, because 65 is not ideal that they are the problem on the highway, and actually contribute more to carbon emissions by forcing ICE vehicles to brake and slow up traffic, therefore inducing more traffic jams.
I can't speak for every place, but in the Portland area, the Prius drivers are the problem with traffic slowing. In the past 10 years, not accounting for growth traffic has slowed considerably. To be honest some of that has to be attributed to texting, but no one can ignore the Prius driver, they are a sincere problem.

The bottom line is this, if you seek, for yourself, the most efficient energy usage, you are extracting some of that from others on the road. Be a good citizen, and not be the slow person, and be happy that you are better than everyone else.

logicalthinker | February 21, 2015

Model 3 will really shine for Wh/mile. As a comparison the Volt easily gets 4+ miles/kWh.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla Model 3 gets 4.5 mi/kWh on average, relatively spirited driving. It'll be more slippery than a Volt and weigh similar (Volt weighs 3786 lbs).
That would mean an 85 kWh pack could deliver around 370 miles range and would probably be EPA rated at 5.2 miles/kWh giving an EPA range of around 420 miles.

mbirnie51 | February 21, 2015

@ brian: the problem with slow traffic and excess consumption of fuel lies in your mirror...or your foolish,boorish driving behavior. You're a danger to your life and mine and any other driver/passenger on the road. Everyone slowing down 5-7 mph will make traffic flow better, resulting in less congestion, less fuel consumption, less death from accidents, lower insurance rate.. ad infinitum. To be sure, distracted driving by others and your aggression is an explosive mix...

Grinnin'.VA | February 21, 2015

@ brian | February 20, 2015

My point is simple - driving a car (prius) the most efficient way is not efficient for everyone else and in doing so it actually hurts society and carbon emission more that what was saved. ...

From what you wrote, I'd guess that you think your car gets better mileage at 70 mph than it does at 65. If you believe this, please do a little research and provide an expert opinion that agrees with it.

jamcsmit | February 21, 2015

Another way to look at this is a multiplier: road miles x multiplier = rated miles shown on the dash. I've found a multiplier of 1.2 works pretty well for highway driving (75 mph) in moderate weather, using heat or a/c. This month in Indiana (-7 F) my multiplier has been consistently 1.5. That is, my 49-mile commute consumes 75 miles of rated range.

CraigW | February 22, 2015

Coming at this from another direction (RM/kWh) I have found one kWh will be used for each 2.88 RM charged in the S60. This seems very constant and I haven't seen much variance over the 2+ years I have driven my car - approximately 50,000 actual miles.

The problem, of course, comes in converting this to actual miles. That entails all the calculations above regarding how and where you drive.

Still, kWh are really based around range miles (RM) expended by your car. Then you need to factor in how your location charges for electricity, but at least one thing is constant in this process.

Bighorn | February 22, 2015

@Craig
You might check your math (typo?) as 2.88 rated miles per kWh works out to 347Wh/rated mile. That's not likely, especially in a 60 since my P85+ works out to about 275. 3.88 seems possible.

AmpedRealtor | February 22, 2015

@ brian,

My point is simple - driving a car (prius) the most efficient way is not efficient for everyone else and in doing so it actually hurts society and carbon emission more that what was saved.

There is no data to support such an outlandish assertion. I invite you to provide some.

I get it, if your electric is produced from dirtier methods you should be more sensitive to your energy usage and therefore your carbon

I just got done telling you that I have a 14 kW solar array on my roof. My energy is not dirty in any way, shape or form.

I would argue that the vast majority of the "Prius" owners that drive in this manner create traffic jams

You're not doing a very good job arguing because you are not presenting any facts outside of your opinion. Your opinion carries no particular credibility here. You know what they say about opinions and buttholes, right?

because 65 is not ideal that they are the problem on the highway, and actually contribute more to carbon emissions by forcing ICE vehicles to brake and slow up traffic, therefore inducing more traffic jams.

Stringing a few opinions together that depend upon the previous unsupported opinion being true does not make them facts. It makes for faulty logic. Silly rabbit.

I can't speak for every place, but in the Portland area, the Prius drivers are the problem with traffic slowing. In the past 10 years, not accounting for growth traffic has slowed considerably. To be honest some of that has to be attributed to texting, but no one can ignore the Prius driver, they are a sincere problem.

Well this explains everything! The problem is that you're in the Portland area. Just like Seattleites, Portlandians have no clue how to drive. That is a regional issue. Maybe you should move?

The bottom line is this, if you seek, for yourself, the most efficient energy usage, you are extracting some of that from others on the road.

Because you've lost your ability to pass a slower car? You keep repeating the same bogus argument expecting a different result. Do you understand the definition of insanity?

Be a good citizen, and not be the slow person, and be happy that you are better than everyone else.

Unless everyone on the road is traveling at exactly the same speed all of the time, someone will always be driving slower. I can assure you that from the standpoint of a Porsche driver, you're the pansy.

And lastly, you really need to get over your obsession with the Prius. It's not healthy. I recommend having your cholesterol and blood pressure checked immediately.

wyattbellis | May 22, 2018

I burn a lot of gas doing full throttle high speed passes on hyper milling Prius drivers in my old Nova. I love watching them twitch the steering wheel in my rear view mirror when the loud exhaust note jangles their nerves. Any way, driving the Tesla will is at flow of traffic. In this area that is 75 to 80 with the ac on cold because it is 110 degrees outside.

garyjtate | May 22, 2018

6400 miles

286 kWH average
Using AC