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Model S Pricing Reactions

Model S Pricing Reactions

Model S Pricing is finally here!

Anyone else getting sticker shock?

I'm most hurt by the $3,500 add for 21" wheels and $3750 for "tech package". Really you couldn't include turn-by-turn navigation in the basic model? I don't care about the hard drive, or liftgate, or automatic entry, so I'm going to have to pay nearly 4 large for turn-by-turn navigation?

Ouch Tesla.

michiganmodels | December 20, 2011

@Maestrokneer - We are discussing this in the "Options pricing is up" thread.

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/option-pricing

When actually compared to cars in its class (i.e., a BMW 5 Series), Model S pricing options are competitive.

Mel. | December 20, 2011

the pricing is fine, but why do you need to get a pano roof in order to get a satellite radio??

Discoducky | December 20, 2011

@Mel, more than likely it is for the antenna. But it seems weird to me as well. The wording is strange and it seems to imply you must get the pano roof to get Sat radio.

Mel. | December 20, 2011

@discoducky, one last question. I really wanted the white interior. Do you think they did away with that for a dull gra

Mel. | December 20, 2011

Disco ducky, sorry for the question on white. I found it under sig.. You must be right on the antenna

Brian H | December 20, 2011

How do you get at the sig? I see no links or banners or buttons or ...

I notice that the Design Studio hasn't been updated to accommodate the packages yet.

Mel. | December 20, 2011

brian h...under options and pricing , a red banner on the far right. click on that

olanmills | December 20, 2011

I don't feel too bad about it. In fact, I was expecting worse. $3500 for the 21" does sound way overpriced, but I don't want them anyways (because I don't want performance tires).

The tech packge is expensive imo, but I want it, so I'm getting it. I am also annoyed by the fact that the uplevel sound system is seperate from the tech package.

Here's is what I feel I have to have from the tech package:
Xenon headlamps
LED foglights
auto-dimming mirrors

I don't really want the nav, but I guess other people would think it is wierd if I have such a fancy car with a fancy computer and no nav. If the nav includes lifetime service, I'll certainly feel better about it.

These are things that are nice to have, but I wouldn't pay for them:
backup camera
power liftgate

And come to think of it, I don't even want automatic keyless entry at all. I'm assuming the standard is still keyless, but you just have to actually push a button. I would reather push a button always.

Yes, I get there is a 'wow' factor with the proximity sensing, and it could be helpful if you are carrying a bunch of stuff, but honestly, I don't want my car to unlock just because I am near it.

ThomasN | December 20, 2011

Can someone post a link to the sig pricing. You can't get to it on an iphone

mcornwell | December 20, 2011

Thomas, try this link for part of the pricing table
http://www.teslamotors.com/tesla_theme/images/models/options_content-4-t...

Maestrokneer | December 20, 2011

@michiganmodels

That thread wasn't up yet when I started this one. We were typing simultaneously.

Too bad the discussion started there first. This thread is more aptly named.

Oh well, discussion nonetheless. I'll throw in my $0.02 over there. Cheers,

Chris25 | December 20, 2011

I with you on some of the shockers. I agree with some of the comments on this thread and the other. I did not expect to see the surcharge for navigation, leather and paint. Completely nickel and dime'n people. I'm sure they are rolling up costs and they are coming in higher than expected- what program doesn't. But trying to say they compete with a 5 series and have all these add-ons is not competing with a 5 series. I am rethinking this reservation but can't blame tesla, they never committed to a price till now. Wife and I are heading out to drive a 5 series in the next couple weeks, we will see from there.
I'm still bent out of shape for not getting the factory tour email even though I am an early reservation holder but I guess tesla found a glitch in their system when you change your email.

Anthony H | December 20, 2011

We missed the factory invite via e-mail as well, and had never changed our e-mail address. It was more likely human error. It happens.

Teslamodels4me | December 20, 2011

The pricing is more than fair, it is consistent with what Tesla Motors has been saying from the beginning and I hope to load my Model S full of extras I just hope that the stock price gets a nice bump to offset the price of some of the options. Go TSLA, and by the way a huge THANKS to Elon Musk we could not have done this without your passion!!!

ncn | December 20, 2011

I'm most hurt by the size of the Signature premium, where if you dislike even one of the "free" options, it starts being a premium of over $7000.

I have no use for the 21" wheels. I wonder if I could get them and trade wheels with a non-Sig buyer who does want them, at a profit. Tesla should not make that possible, because that's stupid. It's all very well with options which are hard to pull out and put in, but with wheels, they really can be swapped....

David M. | December 20, 2011

My wife had performance tires that were only rated for 10,000 miles. I will make my decision on the rating which has not been disclosed yet.

Brian H | December 21, 2011

mcornwall;
that link works, thx. But, oddly, it's an image, not a text-based page. I had to turn off 'text-only zoom' to bring it up to readable size!

Brian H | December 21, 2011

And that's the trick, I guess. I had to allow image zooming for that "red vertical banner" to show up after zooming out. If I zoom in to bring the text up to normal size, or turn on text-only zooming, it's invisible/not displayed.

robert | December 21, 2011

The pricing seems inline with other luxury brands. The big mistake, IMHO, is satellite radio not available without panoramic roof. One thing I want is satellite radio, the one thing I don't want is the panoramic roof! This is a deal breaker for me, so I hope it changes. Technologically, there should be no problem, my lowly Golf TDI has Sirius and no sunroof.

dborn @nsw.au | December 21, 2011

With the high price of the sig, they really should have included the glass roof as standard!

brianman | December 21, 2011

Speaking as a Sig reserve who will be getting the pano roof (and thus somewhat objective on these two topics)...

"The big mistake, IMHO, is satellite radio not available without panoramic roof."

I suspect this is a wording issue and I hope they offer a satellite-without-pano combination.

"With the high price of the sig, they really should have included the glass roof as standard!"

I'm assuming they would have grown the base Sig price to accommodate this OR trimmed some other "standard on Sig" items. Given those alternatives, I think they made the right call on making the Pano optional.

mbcaffe | December 21, 2011

I think the pricing options are in line with other luxury brands like BMW, AUdi and Mercedes. The biggest disappointment for me is the unvailability of supercharging on the 160 mile (40kwh) version. I do not want to pay an additional $10K or $20K to get that option. Although the option choices are not perfect, I think they did a pretty good job of grouping. It does seem strange that that 16GB of storage is in both the audio upgrade and tech package.

also does the mobile connectivity mean internet access or bluetooth?

nealratti | December 21, 2011

Why is there a performance difference between battery pack size and 0 to 60 times? My assumption was that the 40kWh Sedan would have a time approximating the advertised time of 5.6 seconds. To see that it is now stated to be 6.5 seconds gives me pause.
Additionally, why would a 85kWh battery pack go from 5.6 seconds to 4.4 seconds depending on the purchase of the Performance Sedan package or the Straight Sedan package (300 miles)? Is it a larger electric motor or is the motor standard across the board and then de-rated to force buyers looking for performance into the more expensive Sedans?
We truly want to buy this car and are willing to take the hit on range (40kWh package) to get into an electric vehicle. However, we're bothered by the fact that the performance is significantly reduced from the initial advertised 0 to 60 times for no obvious answer.
Thank you for your time,
NR

clea | December 21, 2011

their simplified explanation for it is "As energy storage capacity increases, so does the total power. This results in quicker acceleration."

from http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts

stevewen1 | December 21, 2011

I completely agree. I am thrown back with this new data. I planned on getting the 160 mile range but its hard to see the 0-60 performance drop by a whole 1 sec. I called Tesla, and they said that a larger battery pack allow more power draw. But that doesnt make much sense. I would think that you can still draw the same power but for shorter periods with the 160mi pack. This makes me reconsider the car.

"Why is there a performance difference between battery pack size and 0 to 60 times? My assumption was that the 40kWh Sedan would have a time approximating the advertised time of 5.6 seconds. To see that it is now stated to be 6.5 seconds gives me pause.
Additionally, why would a 85kWh battery pack go from 5.6 seconds to 4.4 seconds depending on the purchase of the Performance Sedan package or the Straight Sedan package (300 miles)? Is it a larger electric motor or is the motor standard across the board and then de-rated to force buyers looking for performance into the more expensive Sedans?
We truly want to buy this car and are willing to take the hit on range (40kWh package) to get into an electric vehicle. However, we're bothered by the fact that the performance is significantly reduced from the initial advertised 0 to 60 times for no obvious answer.
Thank you for your time,
NR"

Andrew18 | December 21, 2011

So I am set:
Switched back from sig 587 to production-she told me they will place me at a good spot in the line, not at the back (I was about 2300 before I upgraded)
I'm going with green sport version with tan interior. No pano roof- I have changed my mind
I think I will get the upgraded sound system and the aero 19" all season tires as I live in Chicago
I do not need any other options. She also stated the interior is being redesigned and is due soon. She stated many people are going up from production to sig.
Also they will hold on to my 40k!

Now the wait.....

xhawk1011 | December 21, 2011

From Tesla: "To qualify for the US Federal Tax Credit, the new vehicle must be purchased by the taxpayer,andnot purchased for resale. The credit is applied when the taxpayer completes their annual tax forms. Qualification is contingent on Adjusted Gross Income".

What are the income parameters?

nealratti | December 21, 2011

Stevewen1

"I completely agree. I am thrown back with this new data. I planned on getting the 160 mile range but its hard to see the 0-60 performance drop by a whole 1 sec. I called Tesla, and they said that a larger battery pack allow more power draw. But that doesnt make much sense. I would think that you can still draw the same power but for shorter periods with the 160mi pack. This makes me reconsider the car."

Thanks for calling Tesla. Their explanation confuses me too since the "Performance" Sedan S has the same 85kWh battery pack as does the 300 mile, non-performance Sedan yet there is a full second difference in 0 to 60 times (5.6 vs. 4.4). Same battery pack size but a much larger power draw to accommodate the significantly faster 0 to 60 times.

Still confused...

brianman | December 21, 2011

@Andrew18
"She also stated the interior is being redesigned and is due soon."

The first we've heard unofficially, the second is news!

Erik M. | December 21, 2011

Still doesn't explain why. I would like to know if the limitation is by the battery pack, and if they offer a battery upgrade in the future, will you get the better performance. For those of us with lmited budget, it would be nice to know if there is an upgrade path in the future.

brianman | December 21, 2011

@xhawk1011
"Qualification is contingent on Adjusted Gross Income"

In case it helps...
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

Longhorn92 | December 21, 2011

@xhawk1011 - I'm not 100% sure, but I don't believe that there is an upper limit on AGI for the rebate; however, if your AGI is too low such that your total taxes owed are less than the rebate, you obviously won't get the entire $7,500 benefit. I somehow don't think a low AGI will be an issue for buyers at this price point.

mscottring | December 21, 2011

I keep seeing people saying this pricing is competitive against other high end brands. This is not accurate. If you look at a comparison chart using BMW, Audi, Jaguar and Mercedes, you'll see that some of these vehicles offer leather seating and navigation at the base price of the vehicle (along with HID headlights and other amenities that SHOULD come standard on a luxury car).

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Vehicles/2012/5/528iSedan/Compare...

vouteb | December 21, 2011

. She also stated the interior is being redesigned and is due soon.

I so hope they get that 17inch screen back to where it was in the alpha models......

The latest version looks clunky.

(UK based sig)

Mycroft | December 21, 2011

The reason for the drastically reduced acceleration with the 160 mile pack is the reduced number of cells available to draw power from.

For example, if the 230 mile pack has 8,000 cells and the 160 mile pack has 6,000 cells, then that's 2,000 fewer cells that power can be pulled from for acceleration purposes.

The reason for the slightly reduced performance between the 300 mile pack and the 230 mile back is due to the different technologies involved. They have the same number of cells, but the tech in the 300 mile batteries is more current.

The reason the Performance version is so much better is because they upgraded the electronics and motor to be that much more efficient with the energy being drawn from the cells.

Mycroft | December 21, 2011

@mscottring, there is definitely an EV penalty here. It's not nearly as much a penalty as the Leaf or the Volt, but definitely an EV price penalty of some kind between the Model S and equivalent "luxury" Beemer or Merc.

So as early adopters, we'll be taking the hit just like the very first iPhone users did.

mscottring | December 21, 2011

Mycroft - Now see that is an honest assessment. Electric cars are just more expensive, we all sort of get that. But I think they're attempt to market this as a truly "premium" car, then making us pay for the very things that make a premium car premium, still bugs me.

The Froq | December 21, 2011

If this is true, I am paying 5.050 dollar for 3 Signature stickers!

Model S performance Signature performance
$79.900,00 $97.900,00
Upgrade $5.000,00 $0,00

Colour $1.500,00 $0,00

Tech package $3.750,00 $0,00
Studio package $950,00 $0,00

Parcel shelf $250,00 $0,00

Twin charger $1.500,00 $0,00
Delta
Total $92.850,00 $97.900,00 $5.050,00

I know I make a mistake somewhere! I've 40.000 dollar in advance and Tesla said they we're thankful for that.

Please Tesla, If you put the prices down gives a possibility to ask the questions somewhere. You could expect there would be a lot of rumor.

The Froq | December 21, 2011

that didn't work also!

Mycroft | December 21, 2011

Froq, you do have the option to revert to P. You're right, there is about a $5,000 premium on Signature. So if Red paint, white leather, and early delivery isn't important to you, then definitely revert now to get the best spot. They won't put you at the end of the line.

Plus you're still going to get the 300 mile pack, so you should be at the front of the P queue.

Volker.Berlin | December 21, 2011

...and if they offer a battery upgrade in the future, will you get the better performance. For those of us with lmited budget, it would be nice to know if there is an upgrade path in the future. (Erik M.)

Here's what Tesla has got to say on this matter:
While technically possible to upgrade from a 40 kWh battery to a larger battery at a later time, Tesla recommends configuring your Model S with the battery that meets both present and future needs.
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts

joesontesla | December 21, 2011

just learn that the 160 mile pack is really less mileage in real life use and if you do 30 000 miles per years after 4 or 5 years you get really serious range problem with battery plus upgradability unclear. thinking seriously about cancelling reservation simply cant afford a 230 miles pack :( other options are all ok for the price

mscottring | December 21, 2011

Mycroft - I understand the technological reasons for the performance (0-60) drop in the lower battery pack, and appreciate your input too. But I don't recall anything from Tesla on this prior to this. That's why I'm a little peeved. My understanding was they were delivering an electric car with a 0-60 time of around 5.6 seconds. I just don't recall them stating that that stated 0-60 time was based only on the 300 mile battery pack, or that it would be significantly reduced for buyers of the lesser battery pack. I might be completely wrong though.

Mycroft | December 21, 2011

Nope, you're not wrong. But then, they didn't say much of anything before this.

However, there have been several threads here and at TMC about this subject. Not to excuse Tesla marketing, but many of us were aware that this was likely to happen.

mscottring | December 21, 2011

Mycroft - Yep, I've been following the threads (although not adding anything of value). There were a few prediction about this, and they seemed to make sense to me at the time. Now I have some decisions to make. The price differential between my "loaded" base model and the base performance model suddenly starts to look a little different to me.

Lightning Jeff | December 21, 2011

Here's a little exercise I just went through to compare the Model S prices to the 2010 Jaguar XF Supercharged I bought new in January 2010, shortly after putting down my deposit on the Model S. It's a 470 hp, 0-60 in 4.9 sec. luxury car. Assume I paid the "list price," just as we will be required to do with the Tesla. List was $68,000. I didn't opt for a single add-on option. Included in the Supercharged package:

- Leather throughout, including dash; 16-way driver's seat
- Heated and ventilated seats; heated steering wheel
- Auto-dimming mirrors all around
- Keyless (proximity) entry; homelink
- Xenon HID headlamps, self-leveling
- Adaptive & selectable stability control & traction control
- Power sunroof
- 20" wheels, long-wear performance tires
- B&W sound system: 14 speakers, 7.1, satellite & HD radio, iPod control + USB
- Navigation
- Backup camera
- Metallic paint

Again, that's all for $68k list (I actually paid slightly less).

Looking only at the 300 mile range, to achieve similar performance and trim level with the Model S, I'm looking at adding: $750 paint; $1500 glass roof; $3500 21" wheels for the non-Perf; $1500 leather for non-Perf; $3750 tech; $950 (no-name) premium sound; $1500 active suspension for non-Perf:

- $83,350 for a standard 300-mile model with inferior acceleration (by .7 seconds)
- $86,850 for a Performance model with superior acceleration (by .5 seconds)

(A couple of notes about these prices as a starting point: These ignore the time-value of the $7500 tax credit that Tesla uses to artificially "lower" the price. I'm also very suspicious of the sound system, given the fact that no premium brand is identified. The sound system could be a deal-breaker for me if it's the kind of junk that companies like Infinity and Boston have allowed their brands to be slapped on in recent years.)

I understand that one element of the cost of ownership - gas costs - needs to be considered. The XF Supercharged averages right around 20 mpg in my real-life use. My daily round-trip commute, typically right around 75 miles, costs me roughly $12 to $15/day depending on gas prices. If I assume 250 such days per year, and assume the highest gas prices, I'm paying $3750 for gas per year. The Model S battery is warranted for 8 years, but I'm not going to drive any car for 8 years. Five would even be a stretch, but let's use that: At the highest gas prices, over five years I'd save $18750 in gas.

If I ignore the time-value of money again (I'll be pre-paying for this gas savings, which will only be realized over time), and "credit" the gas savings, then I get:

- $64,600 for a standard 300
- $68,100 for a Performance

Of course, this assumes electricity is free. It isn't, and I'll be paying increased electrical costs that need to be accounted for. Tesla says to assume 300 Wh per mile. For my daily 75-mile RT commute, that's 22.5 Kwh per day. 250 days a year, that's 5625 Kwh/year. For five years, that's 28125 Kwh. According to my energy bills, I'm paying just a fraction under 10 cents per Kwh (with no variable rates depending on time of day). Assuming electricity prices hold steady (which may be a faulty assumption, especially as EV use increases), that's about $2800. If I account for that cost, I get:

- $67,400 for a standard 300
- $70,900 for a Performance

My conclusions: Taking into account some rough estimates that give Tesla the benefit of the doubt (stable electricity costs; using their assumed 300Wh/mile number, which could be way off if one likes to have fun with speed and G's), the "adjusted" cost of the Model S is at least in the ballpark of what I paid for a similar luxury performance sedan less than two years ago (though I didn't pay quite the $68k list for the XF). What hurts is the up-front, out-of-pocket expenditure for savings that will only be realized over time - including the tax credit:

- $90,850 for a standard 300
- $94,350 for a Performance

Assuming I go ahead with my Model S purchase, I'll most likely go with the non-Performance 300 mile version, and skip the the glass roof and performance wheels. That saves me $5k off the standard price above, so my out-of pocket would be $85850, and "adjusted" cost (subtracting the $7500 credit and $15,900 net fuel savings) would be $62,400.

While I was at first put-off by all of the up-charges for things that should be standard on a luxury car, my assessment is that the Model S is a good deal, if you believe in the fuel savings. By buying a Model S, you're not necessarily paying a premium just for the "feel-good value" of having an EV, or of being the first one on your block to have such a cool car - though of course those things are included as well.

* This exercise makes no effort to account for maintenance costs. Annual maintenance (all that has been required so far - so save the "reliability" cracks, Jag-haters!) has been well under $1k per year. That's an unknown for the Model S, but I assume it will be comparable.

The Froq | December 21, 2011

I'm sure Tesla has made a mistake. It doesn't make any sense to punish you're fans of the first hour.

It looks stupid to drive a Model S Signature car now......."so 5.000 dollar for 3 stickers? Smart person!"

mscottring | December 21, 2011

Lightening - Well done. This really helps to level the playing field, and makes the cost a little more palatable.

jandkw | December 21, 2011

Is there a technical reason why the supercharger cannot support the 40KW and 60KW is TBD?

Discoducky | December 21, 2011

@Jeff...Agreed as there is inherent risk in either car and company. I believe TM is doing a good job of making their offering close to that of their competitors considering the groundbreaking car they seem to be developing.

ALso, leaving maintenance out of the TCO (True Cost to Own) calculation is flawed. Edmunds says $5K for your 11 Jag XF Supercharged Sedan for 5 years. And that will only go up overtime as the ICE components fail. I expect Model S to be a fraction of this cost and intend to reap the benefits. Luxury cars tend to depreciate so fast since these replacement parts are so expensive for ICE cars. I'd never buy a used luxury car for this reason as it's reasonable to expect any problem will be expensive. Lower maintenance cost is key for me as is the expected low depreciation. If the Model S stays in high demand, which it should overtime by assuming battery costs go down as they are expected to it will only increase the value of the car on the used car market.

And let's not forget the cargo space difference. Kids take up so much space!

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