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model X speculation, delay, probably because of the up-swing door design

model X speculation, delay, probably because of the up-swing door design

only my 2 cents.Mercedes GT AMG dumped the gull wing door design in the new release. I guess the problem/difficulty of engineering could be:
1) roof strength. because this kind of door design discontinued the rail from A pillar to C pillar, so the strength of roof can be compromised.
2) sealing problem. the door design needs to be water-proof(no leaking) and air-tight(sort of). It will be a challenge for manufacturing. high accuracy and repeatability are required. Deloreans has these problems before, but 30-40years later the engineering has improved a lot, but still needs some struggling.
3) passenger escaping method when top side down. Mercedes GT old version has a explosive device to break the hinges when the car is flipped over, then the passenger can get out the car. I don't know model X has this kind thing or not.
4) height of garage ceiling is a restriction. Elon's garage is very spacious in the video of debut ceremony, but not all the same.

Red Sage ca us | February 11, 2015

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There is nothing wrong with the Falcon Wing Doors. They are fine. Finished. In perfect working order. Even if no one in the Snowbelt wants them they can all be sold in California, Texas, and Florida.

[-->/ ERROR /<--]

ian t.wa.us | February 11, 2015

@jf_dou - You're new here aren't you? Welcome. There are so many threads on this topic it will literally take you weeks to get through them all.

Search here...

www.volkerize.com

Cheers!

speyerj | February 11, 2015

Lots of SUVs have vertically opening rear hatches. These hatches represent a similar challenge to garage roof clearance. The passenger doors opening vertically is no different, generally, than the rear one opening vertically.

But no one seems to be up in arms when Ford has a vertically opening trunk door...How will it fit in my garage?!?

james.nicklin | February 12, 2015

The inverted passenger escape is a good question though.

vandacca | February 12, 2015

Keep in mind that the Model-X centre-of-gravity is extremely low, so the odds of a roll-over are quite low. In any case, I'm sure Elon has patented a self-righting mechanism, by opening one falcon door, the Model-X will flip itself back upright. (I thought I would try to beat @georgehawley to the patent) ;)

Otherwise, explosive bolts might be the only other (reasonable) solution.

NumberOne | February 12, 2015

Most doors on cars that are upside down will not be able to open, so I have a hard time even imagining this would be a problem.

georgehawley.fl.us | February 13, 2015

@dan: great idea! You just have to be careful which door to use, if on the edge of a precipice.:-))

jjs | February 13, 2015

I see a guest appearance of the X in a future episode of the Roadrunner cartoon.

Red Sage ca us | February 13, 2015

Most cars that are inverted have crushed passenger compartments. So there is no one left to escape, or be rescued. Race prepped street vehicles have rollbars added for good reason.

georgehawley.fl.us | February 13, 2015

Actually, the MX is so well reinforced that it can be inverted without deformation. The FW door motors are so powerful that, if you open both doors while upside down, the car will be lifted off the pavement and 2nd row passengers will be able to step out after releasing their seat belts and righting themselves. This feature was one of the causes of the MX delay. Trust me on this. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

DTsea | February 13, 2015

They couldnt get model s to roll over in tests..... model x probably wont roll either. CG is very low.

carlgo2 | February 21, 2015

It still has conventional front doors to crawl out of, and there is a hatch. 5 ways to get out. Same as any car.

Going into water? As seen on the Mythbusters cars often go upside down in the water and then are really hard to get out of unless you have a window breaking tool, and even then...

Teslas can be expected to sink properly, right side up.

BTW, flipping over turtle mode is my patented idea.

It will all be fine. Except maybe the styling...but we will see about that.

ian t.wa.us | February 21, 2015

I thought the myth busters found that you have to wait for the car to fill with water and the inside/outside pressures to equalize before you can open the door.

TeoTeslaFan | February 22, 2015

@jf_dou,

You forgot the danger to cyclists. I should clarify that I'm talking about hitting the doors that are left open. I'm not talking about hitting the door while it is opening because that wouldn't happen.

A while ago I took measurements from pictures as well as measurements of me sitting on my bicycle and it turned out the doors will hit your head if you ride close enough to the car because the door sticks out more than a cyclist's head to handlebar side distance.

This is a big problem because in many countries there are specific laws about not leaving car doors open. This means the driver will be legally responsible in such accidents. Some dooring accidents resulted in compansation claims worth over a million dollars.

This could effect Tesla sales badly. For example if a cyclist is injured, insurance companies could raise rates for the MX. Another problem is, media is getting crazy about Tesla new like we saw with the few fires. Imagine a cyclist smashing his head with blood all over the place. How do you think this will play out it the media? It will be top news.

The reason why this door design is more dangerous to cyclists is because the initial impack is directly to the head. You don't hit the door with the front wheel, your knees or shoulders like it would happen normally. Another problem is, when the doors are left open, the door is in the air where a cyclist is less likely to look. It is in the blind spot.

I want to repeat that falcon wing doors are safer than normal doors while they are opening. We are talking about incidents where the door is left open for whatever reason.

vandacca | February 22, 2015

@dejavu?

Brian H | February 22, 2015

Déjà BS.

jjs | February 22, 2015

That would be Deja Poo

:)

georgehawley.fl.us | February 22, 2015

I thought that the bicycle hazard had been examined in another thread. But that was before the Model S was equipped with all around proximity sensors. I believe it is safe to say that the Model X will be similarly equipped, giving Tesla engineering the opportunity to design software to shut the offending door upon detection of an advancing cyclist entering the danger zone. The reaction time of the system is estimated to be less than a millisecond. A cyclist riding at 30 mph would move about half an inch in a millisecond at which point the FW door would begin its descent. There could be an optional klaxon sound generated to alert said cyclist to the operation of the door. I estimate that this will prevent accidental beheadings of cyclists by 99.973% (rough numbers). My guess is that, based on Model X market penetration and bicycle population statistics, there will be an average of 1 such encounter worldwide per month in 2016. The first beheading could take place as early as January 2041 by which time one hopes that cyclist education and Tesla dedign improvements will dramatically reduce the probability of an accident. Can anyone help me verify this analysis?

vandacca | February 22, 2015

@georgehawley, I verified your analysis. Looks good to me.

jjs | February 22, 2015

Related to Mr. Spock george?

Brian H | February 23, 2015

A better solution might be to flex the falcon wingtip straight up.

james.nicklin | February 23, 2015

Do the doors "Kuck-kaaa!" when they open as a warning to nearby pedestrians?

garth | February 23, 2015

@Teo @UK: I think I injured my head reading that post. Assuming you're not trolling, are you suggesting that cyclists bear no responsibility for looking where they are going? Then you contend that you can accurately measure from a photograph the real-world clearance on an as-yet-to-be-built vehicle?

In the case of a suddenly opening side door in a bike lane, I suppose one could lay some culpability on a vehicle drive/passenger for at least not looking first, but it seems like a relatively slow opening or already open gull-wing door is a lower risk and certainly enough warning for a cyclist to, you know, go around/duck? I mean, they are the ones pedaling/braking/steering - when did it become everyone else's fault when one runs into an object IN A SELF-PROPELLED vehicle? If one is going that fast, that closely to parked cars, one should be prepared to avoid a collision.

Nevermind; I forgot that we live in a demented litigious society where everyone else is to blame and I should take no responsibility for hurtling myself at high speed next to doors that could open at any minute resulting in my own significant injury. Silly me.

vandacca | February 23, 2015

Oh no! @garth don't be the air under @Teo's flames.

georgehawley.fl.us | February 23, 2015

My head hurts thinking about such things.

aesculus | February 23, 2015

Maybe some mini strobe lights on the door edge will help?

speyerj | February 25, 2015

@Teo
You must be joking. Measure again. A quick measurement based off the rendering of the X on Tesla's site vs the Model S shows a clearance under the falcon door of 74". This would be consistent with Elan's vision of being able to enter the car without ducking down under the door for most passengers.

Proper bike sizing has you able to stand flat footed over the frame and most folks will have a seat post only a few inches higher than that. So if you are sitting perfectly straight your head clearance will be perhaps a few inches higher than your standing height, but that also assumes you aren't bent forward at all to hold the handle bars. Once you lean forward onto your handle bars you are usually as tall or shorter than your standing height. If you are riding fully erect and staring straight ahead you should see an open car door at approximately eye level. If you are staring at your feet you deserve anything that happens.

So unless you're >74" tall, I don't anticipate this ever happening unless you're trying to door yourself.

vandacca | February 25, 2015

@speyerj, you're just asking for a very long-winded post (with diagrams) from @Teo. You may regret your last posting. :)

JeffreyR | February 25, 2015

I'm 76" tall, but I'm not worried! As you point out you need to be ready for doors to suddenly open.

georgehawley.fl.us | February 26, 2015

I have a cardboard box holding a plastic Christmas tree in front of my MS in the garage. I swear that the car, equipped for autopilot functions, informs me inch by inch as I approach the box and screams "STOP!" when I get within about 3 inches It. Likewise when I back out and approach some shrubbery. The MX will be amply equipped to prevent or dramatically reduce FW door collisions, barring a suicidal cyclist equipped with sonar jamming technology.