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Near accident while parking just now!!

Near accident while parking just now!!

Wow guys I've seen those unintended acceleration threads before and thought that the person must've always definitely been punching the accelerator, but I'm not so sure after what just happened to me. Please hear me out, because my son and I are frankly quite scared right now. I was driving into a parking lot and I just lightly pressed the accelerator as I was going under 10 mph and all of a sudden my X went from 10 to over 40 mph in about 2 seconds! I didn't even know the thing could accelerate that fast! Can anybody explain what the heck might've happened? Thankfully I was about 100 ft away from any other cars before it took off, so I had time to slam the brakes without panicking, otherwise who knows what would've happened... I'm certain that I didn't accidentally activate cruise control/AP, so there's no way that could've caused it. My theory is that the regenerative brakes may have given me a sudden kick of acceleration? I'm kind of worried now, because this is actually the second time something like this has happened to me, except the first time wasn't nearly as bad, so I didn't ask you guys about it. Has anyone else had this happen to them? Do you guys think I need to ask my Tesla team about this?

eddiemoy | September 29, 2016

resume cruise control?

trmc47 | September 29, 2016

Welcome to the world of unintended acceleration. Since I have responded this thread will more than likely disappear from the forum soon.

hami05 | September 29, 2016

@eddiemoy, wasn't a resume cruise control. I just went on a 5 minute drive from home to the grocery store and never used cruise control at all. Didn't hear a cruise control activation noise or see the icon turn blue either.

trmc47 | September 29, 2016

There are now 6 documented cases of unintended acceleration in model x cars not including yours.

trmc47 | September 29, 2016

Don't worry, Tesla will say it was driver error. There are at least 6 of us that know they will.

trmc47 | September 29, 2016

Just be glad you didn't kill someone.

hami05 | September 29, 2016

@trmc Yeah I'm definitely relieved that there was no accident this time, but I am really getting a bad feeling that I've just gotten lucky a couple times now that it didn't happen while I was actively trying to park. It's not like I hit any of the pedals hard to make it go that fast. I am not trying to claim that I thought I was hitting the brakes and the car accelerated instead. I am aware of exactly what I was doing, which was just lightly feathering the accelerator so that I could pull up to a parking spot, and the thing suddenly took off, without me trying to floor it or anything even close to that. Now I know that this is a quick car and it doesn't take a whole lot of pressure to get it flying, but I've been driving it for over a month now and this is new for me. I don't feel safe driving this car right now because of this, and I just want to find out what might've happened, so the car won't try to take off like that on me again. Really crazy situation here...

Triggerplz | September 29, 2016

@hami05 glad u and your family is ok

Big T | September 29, 2016

Why do these claims of sudden acceleration only happen while parking? Why not while slowing to a stop sign? Or a red light? Or stop-and-go traffic?

Big T | September 29, 2016

Oh, and why is it drivers new to Tesla?

Triggerplz | September 29, 2016

"Are ok"

bejachb | September 29, 2016

@Big T Amen!

David N | September 29, 2016

glad everyone is safe.

"Do you guys think I need to ask my Tesla team about this?"
Seriously? I would've called the moment it happened, from the parking lot.

trmc47 | September 29, 2016

Call Puzant we need to get in touch with you. Puzant Ozbag. If you do an intent search you can find him. He had the first model x that experienced unintended acceleration. With such an uncommon name he easy to find.

trmc47 | September 29, 2016

Internet search my typing is not the greatest on a phone

lhanspal | September 29, 2016

Not sure if posting on this forum is the right way to handle this - my view, is that you need to take your car to the Service Center to get to the bottom of it...

Just to keep things in perspective ... I have not experienced this situation with my X. If we take it at face value, if that's 7 legitimate cases out of 10-12,000 MX built ... that's 0.06% ... that is honestly not statistically conclusive to brand the X with a problem. Though, even a single case is one too many... if it's legitimate.

Remember - this is just a forum for Tesla enthusiasts to exchange info... no one here, is really qualified to give you a diagnosis, except Tesla. So best to take it to the Service Center.

My 2c...

lilbean | September 29, 2016

@hami, Glad you guys are OK. Now your story provided details that make sense. I do believe you. :)

carlk | September 29, 2016

You foot was on the pedal?

carlk | September 29, 2016

You foot was on the pedal?

houstonviper1 | September 29, 2016

hope you filed a "bug report"

Triggerplz | September 29, 2016

@ham They gonna be coming out the woodwork after you on this, hang in there

Big T | September 29, 2016

"They gonna be coming out the woodwork after you on this, hang in there."

Yes. Because anyone that had TWO sudden acceleration events would run to a forum instead of calling Tesla.

hami05 | September 29, 2016

@Trig, @lilbean, @David, thanks for not being as quick to point fingers as some others. I appreciate the well wishes. I do plan on calling my service center tomorrow and I didn't do it tonight because of the time, but I did note that this happened at 8:58 pm EST, in case they want to have a look at that. @BigT, actually this hasn't only happened to me while getting ready to park, the first time I was just accelerating up to 25 in my neighborhood and it suddenly went to 35 in a second but I wasn't too bothered about that, because it was just a 10mph burst, but this one that happened to me today was the car jumping 30 mph... I've driven this car for 2000 miles now and it's the only car I've been driving really over the past month, so I don't think that this has to do with me being too new with it. If this has happened during my first week of ownership, that's definitely a possibility, but I'm seriously convinced now that this might be a hardware/software problem with my car.

hami05 | September 29, 2016

@Carlk, yes I was driving into the parking lot about 100 feet from any cars, just feathering the accelerator under 10mph. It was an extremely light press the whole time and right before I took my foot off the accelerator to let the car creep forward, it just took off like a rocket and I was forced to move my foot and hit the brake within 2 seconds. I'm really glad that my wife wasn't driving because I'm almost certain that she would've panicked and this situation might have ended differently. :(

Big T | September 29, 2016

No Hami, you said "Do you guys think I need to ask my Tesla team about this?" That just doesn't make sense.

Big T | September 29, 2016

And they have 24x7 support.

george.ixxapiga... | September 29, 2016

Interesting

hami05 | September 29, 2016

@BigT, yes I asked if you guys thought I should ask my Tesla team to look at that, and by Tesla team I meant my service center because that was the contact that came to my mind. I hadn't thought of calling support, so thanks for that advice. Now the reason that I asked you guys whether I should give them a call was because I was holding onto a small hope that one of you guys would be able to give me a simple explanation that fits why this happened to me today, before I went to Tesla to try getting an answer from them because A. I wasn't sure how long it would take to get an answer from them, as from experience I see that they've been fairly slow to respond to things and B. I didn't think that they would be able to give me a solid explanation.

george.ixxapiga... | September 29, 2016

Don't you think you should be reporting this to NHTSA?

george.ixxapiga... | September 29, 2016

I'll give you an explanation.
Unintended acceleration is intirely possible on any modern vehicle that has electronic control of the fuel injection system OR the electric motor.
there are many studies that show that electronic glitches and logic lock ups can indeed cause this.
Toyota paid a $1.5 B fine for denying and covering up Unintended Acceleration incidents.
Tesla's logs might say that it was the drivers fault but it could easily be the case that the glitch occurred downstream of the monitoring point.
There is an abnormal percentage of Unintend Acceleration incidents in the Tesla and in particular the Model X.
Go to the NHTSA website and have a look.

Denial is not a river in Florida.

george.ixxapiga... | September 29, 2016

The most prominent incidents of sudden unintended acceleration recently took place from 2000-2010 in Toyota and Lexus vehicles, resulting in as many as 89 deaths and 52 injuries.[3] The NHTSA first opened an auto defect investigation into Toyota vehicles in 2004, but the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) within the NHTSA closed the investigation citing inconclusive evidence. Toyota also claimed that no defects existed and that the electronic control systems within the vehicles were unable to fail in a way that would result in an acceleration surge. More investigations were made but were unsuccessful in finding any defect until April 2008, when it was discovered that the driver side trim on a 2004 Toyota Sienna could come loose and prevent the accelerator pedal from returning to its fully closed position.[4] It was later discovered that both the electronic control systems and the floor mats of the affected Toyota vehicles could cause them to accelerate suddenly, and that Toyota had known about these problems but had misled consumers and continued to manufacture defective cars. In March 2014, the Department of Justice issued 1.2 billion dollars in financial penalties against Toyota in a deferred prosecution agreement.[5]

Physical analysis conducted on Toyota’s electronic engine control system including accelerator pedal position sensors (APPSs) in 2011 showed the presence of a significant number of tin whiskers. Tin whiskers are elongated or needle-like structures of pure tin that grow from pure tin and tin alloy surfaces. Toyota's APPS were found to use tin finishes. These tin finishes can produce conductive tin whiskers capable of creating unintended electrical failures such as short circuits. The use of tin finish in Toyota's APPS is therefore a cause for concern.[13] Similarly in 2013, materials used in an automotive engine control unit (ECU) from a 2008 Toyota Tundra truck were analyzed. It was found that pure tin with a nickel underlayer was used as the connector finish in the unit, and analysis revealed tin whiskers on the connector surface. Further testing under a standard temperature-humidity cycling showed tin whisker growth, raising additional reliability and safety concerns. These studies show that poor design choices, such as the use of tin finishes, result in unintended failures.[1

And that's just a small part of it.
The high currents and induced voltages created by the Tesla's electric motors mean that there is a much higher probability of glitches, spikes and latch ups.
To lay all the blame on the drivers is what those in the ndustry would term....BOLLOCKS!

george.ixxapiga... | September 29, 2016

In April 2013, Betsy Benjaminson, a freelance translator working for Toyota to translate internal documents, released a personal statement about Toyota covering up facts about the sudden unintended acceleration problem. Benjaminson stated she “read many descriptions by executives and managers of how they had hoodwinked regulators, courts, and even congress, by withholding, omitting, or misstating facts.” [46] Benjaminson also compared Toyota’s press releases and mentioned that they were obviously meant to “maintain public belief in the safety of Toyota’s cars—despite providing no evidence to support those reassurances.” This public statement was released when Benjaminson decided to name herself as a whistleblower after she had been providing evidence to Iowa Senator Charles Grassley.

This leak of internal documents fueled a criminal investigation by the FBI and the Justice Department that had been ongoing since 2010,[47] and on March 19, 2014, the DOJ issued a deferred prosecution agreement with a $1.2 billion criminal penalty for issuing misleading and deceptive statements to its consumers and federal regulators, as well as hiding another cause of unintended acceleration, the sticky pedal, from the NHTSA.[42] This fine was separate from the $1.2 billion settlement of a class action suit paid to the drivers of Toyota cars who claimed that their cars had lost value as a result of the SUA problems gaining publicity in 2012 and is the largest criminal fine against an automaker in US history.[48] Toyota was also forced to pay a total of $66.2 million in fines to the Department of Transportation for failing to handle recalls properly and $25.5 million to Toyota shareholders whose stock lost value due to recalls. Nearly 400 wrongful-death and personal injury cases were also privately settled by Toyota as a result of unintended acceleration.[48]

george.ixxapiga... | September 29, 2016

Google "YOUR CAR COULD TAKE OFF BY ITSELF
SUDDEN ACCELERATION IS NOT A MYTH"

“I just got into the car, started it up,
placed my foot on the brake and shifted
into gear. When I took my foot off the brake
the car just took off.” In all too many of
these events the mechanism by which the
event ends is catastrophic. The tragedy of
deaths that should not have occurred, lives
ruined by devastating injuries, and even
lives ruined by unwarranted criminal
charges and incarceration are typical results
of sudden acceleration events.
This simple statement describing a
sudden acceleration event has been
repeated thousands of times since 1982.
Why 1982? This was when the mass
changeover from carbureted to fuel
injected engines took place. With this
change came the mass use of the electronic
cruise control.
The auto manufacturers would have
everyone believe that all sudden
accelerations are caused by the driver's
pedal misapplication. The victims who have
experienced a sudden acceleration and
those who know the science know that
sudden accelerations happen due to design
defects.
I have been investigating sudden
acceleration events for nearly twenty years.
Over this time I have heard the
representatives of the auto industry try to
spin the pedal misapplication story to fit
what they want and cover themselves.
They do it even when it contradicts what
they have said in the past, or defies logic
and science.

mhkeyemd | September 29, 2016

Just curious.. does it matter if you have 75D, 90D, P90D, or P90DL? They have different acceleration speeds. Does that matter? I'm not an engineer or a mechanic, so I have no idea. When I test drove P90DL, I felt more scared during accelarating versus my 90D.

george.ixxapiga... | September 30, 2016

I think it is blindingly obvious that if you have a case of Unintended Acceleration (which is NOT impossible) then the higher the acceleration the worse the situation.
It doesn't take a "genius" to work that out.

george.ixxapiga... | September 30, 2016

Expert Argues With Electronics Fault Logic

In his paper, Mr. Sero counters this argument. He states that the culprit may be a regression to "drive-by-wire" vehicle configurations that lend themselves to sudden acceleration issues. He states,

"Drive-by-wire combined with the increase in number and complexity of electrical and electronic devices with their numerous interconnections and lack of adequate EMI protection means that not only will sudden accelerations continue but numerous other electronic anomalies will occur."

According to Mr. Sero, it was Toyota's decision to incorporate this structure into its vehicles that led to the proliferation of sudden acceleration problems, not driver errors. According to his research, Ford Motor Company found that the integrated speed controls in vehicles, similar in structure to the drive-by-wire configuration, resulted in six to ten times the number of sudden acceleration events of vehicles with standalone cruise controls.

Toyota claims that it has recalled the affected vehicles and repaired the problems that relate to sudden acceleration. However, there is no evidence that this problem will not continue to arise in other vehicles.

Source: Renaissance Engineering, "Your car could take off by itself: Sudden acceleration is not a myth," Samuel J. Sero, BSEE, P.E.

george.ixxapiga... | September 30, 2016

Note:
EMI (Electromagnetic interference) can be caused by external EM fields or in the case of Electric Vehicles may be generated by the car itself.

george.ixxapiga... | September 30, 2016

To this day sudden acceleration
events are still occurring. They are
beginning to proliferate in the drive-by-wire
vehicles, a change that has made it possible
for defects to arise in which the normal
driving operation to pull open the throttle
causes these events without operator input.
Toyota, one of the first manufacturers to
adopt drive-by-wire, has over 600 reported
incidents of sudden acceleration alone.
One need only go to the Office of Defects
Investigation web site under NHTSA to find
these reports and reports on other vehicles.
Drive-by-wire combined with the
increase in number and complexity of
electrical and electronic devices with their
numerous interconnections and lack of
adequate EMI protection means that not
only will sudden accelerations continue but
numerous other electronic anomalies will
occur. These latter have already been
manifested in air bag, ATC (automatic
traction control ) and ABS ( anti-lock
braking system ) malfunctions, and roll over
prevention control malfunction.
It is admitted by the auto industry
that these EMI fault aspects will leave no
trace of their occurrence. This is the same
finding that was made by the aircraft
industry, medical electronics industry, radio
operated devices such as cranes industry,
and even the wheelchair industry. EMI is
not a new problem, but as predicted in the
1975 NHTSA (National Highway and Traffic
Administration) EMI evaluation document,
the increased use of electrical and
electronic components in vehicles has led to
increased EMI problems.

george.ixxapiga... | September 30, 2016

That's not me saying that ......
It's this dude - YOUR CAR COULD TAKE OFF BY ITSELF
SUDDEN ACCELERATION IS NOT A MYTH
Samuel J. Sero BSEE, P.E.
Renaissance Engineering
Forensic Engineers

MyXinTx | September 30, 2016

Sorry, but I really have my doubts on this story, not so much the possibility of unintended acceleration especially in an EV..

If you are old and sophisticated enough to own/drive a Tesla, then the very first thing anyone would have done is contacted Tesla 24 hr support for further instructions out of concern of a defect in the vehicle.... not post the occurrence on a forum..asking if Tesla should be contacted.

Tesla can immediately access the vehicle and determine if it is safe to drive any further in that vehicle. If they cannot confirm it is safe to drive further, they would absolutely recommend it taken to the nearest service center, possibly by way of tow truck.

This might be all true, but sounds like someone seeking attention.... I sincerely apologize if I am mistaken.

hami05 | September 30, 2016

@MyXinTin, this is 100% what happened and I am in no way trying to seek attention, I was just trying to seek help... so sorry if it came off like that. Please keep in mind, I've only owned a Tesla for about a month now, and this is the first time something has really gone wrong for me. It's not like I've had Teslas for 3 years now and this is my 5th issue that I need fixed, and I know the drill by now. I was not really aware that support was able to instantly access my car remotely to diagnose whether it is safe to keep driving here, so thank you for that... I was simply under the impression that this was something I would have to have assessed in person and that's why I assumed my service center was the place I would have to eventually go to with this issue. With that said, I have a feeling that Tesla is going to just tell me that I must've increased the acceleration to 100% with my foot, because the log might tell them that the car was instructed to do full acceleration. That's going to be a really useless diagnosis and not going to take away any of my worries, because I'm certain that I only pressed fhe accelerator about 5% and the car just told itself to launch like that. I've just got a 75D by the way, if this was a P90 or something, I'm not sure if I would've been able to stop in time.

ken | September 30, 2016

i believe Hami, after driving 21k miles on my MX, many things happened and if i post those issues here, some of you might say i am crazy and just new to tesla.

Madatgascar | September 30, 2016

@hami is a legit forum participant for a while now.

Idea: someone should see if the locations of these events have wifi signals. There are just a few reports, but t's an impossible coincidence that they seem to happen in parking lots near commercial buildings. Is Tesla being hacked?

makobill | September 30, 2016

Rather than operating on feelings, or running to a forum to post about it, how about talking to the experts at Tesla? I'm not saying it didn't happen - I just find it peculiar someone spends this kind of time talking about it without a phone call to the manufacturer. Quit assuming - make the call...

MicTheCat | September 30, 2016

I wonder... I have luckily newer experienced this but first thing I do is deactivate creep when I get a new Tesla. Would be interesting to know if all who experienced this had creep mode on. I newer had a car with automatic transmission and don't think the creep function is a benefit when you can control the speed so accurate in a Tesla

Glad nothing bad happens hami.

lilbean | September 30, 2016

@MictheCat, That's a good idea. I would like to know if creep mode was on in these incidents.

bejachb | September 30, 2016

as Louise Jefferson (Weezy) would say "Oh George" !

george.ixxapiga... | September 30, 2016

"makobill | 30 September, 2016
Rather than operating on feelings, or running to a forum to post about it, how about talking to the experts at Tesla? I'm not saying it didn't happen - I just find it peculiar someone spends this kind of time talking about it without a phone call to the manufacturer. Quit assuming - make the call..."

And please report it to NHTSA as well.
That is what they are there for.
To analyse and detect defect trends.
Without your input they will not be able to add this to the tally of UA incidents.
There may have already been deaths caused.
Witha 3 Ton car on a hair trigger even more deaths are possible.
Remember - One glitch, in the ditch!

george.ixxapiga... | September 30, 2016

The accelerator pedal is made by Ford.
It is a simple potentiometer with just a 3 wire connection.
No redundancy.
A speck of dirt or a "Tin Whisker" spells instant disaster.
Ford has had recalls and lawsuits over UA.

Sure the log says the accelerator went to 100%.
Or was it just that the VOLTAGE went to 100% ??

george.ixxapiga... | September 30, 2016

Google this:
How Ford Concealed Evidence of Electronically-Caused UA and What it Means Today

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 6th, 2011

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