I am speechless. What is our country coming to?
Eventually all these politicians will face the backlash from this. Mark Ruffalo was quick to jump on the story, good for him.
So incredibly stupid. Who hasn't had a bad experience at a dealership? How can politicians push this BS and not expect voter backlash? Perhaps they think most voters are asleep at the wheel?
Dear attorneys for constitution law / interstate commerce, if you are on this forum, can you help articulate if those laws that force consumers to buy new products only through members of an association is constitutional?
If Elon hasn't brought a suit, does it mean chances are this is all legal? Would love to see it go to the supreme court
They can force you to buy insurance, they can force you to do just about anything.
They claim the issue is that all new auto manufacturers must play by the same rules. If this is true, then why do they see a need to change the rules?
There are other possible remedies that would take care of their concerns without undermining the future of EVs and other new car manufacturers, yet none of those are proposed.
The agenda is clear to us, but well disguised for lawmakers and the general public.
Tesla can't stop the NY legislature from voting on legislation, but nothing is going to happen in NY until April after the budget is passed. If the anti-Tesla bill passes and the Governor signs it, then legal action can start.
The thing is Governor Cuomo is a car nut. Hopefully, someone in upper management is planning on giving his honor a test drive. I think that would make quite a better argument than going through the courts.
Elections have consequences.
Not saying anything you all don't know but these dealer associations pump a lot of money into these political campaigns and their votes are bought and paid for long before Tesla came along.
If Apple can do it and many of the items bought on the internet come straight from the factory, why don't they have to play by the same rules?
Need to educate some of these politicians not only in NY but several states that are trying to block Tesla. TEXASS
@par3duke You hit it on the head. The Senate Republican leader is Dean Skelos from Rockville Center, NY. I don't think there's an auto brand that isn't represented in Rockville Center. I live in his district and though I've contacted his office about this I don't think there's any pressure the citizens can apply that will make an impression.
Tesla should contact him, ask if he is interested in TM putting their Gigafactory in NY. When he replies yes, say, sorry we meant to call a Tesla friendly State.
He can fight the future, but he will soon be in the past.
Governor Cuomo is hardly stuck in the past. His dynamic approach and efforts to make gay marriage legal shows he wants to stay ahead of history.
He's also pro EV as this proves http://www.governor.ny.gov/press/09062013-benefits-of-electric-vehicles-nys
He simply needs the argument to be presented in a palatable form. I believe Tesla is capable of doing this.
Don't count on a mass uprising of car buyers in NY (or Texas, or Ohio) in opposition to anti-Tesla legislation. A scuffle between a California billionaire and millionaire car dealers in NY isn't going to motivate Joe Sixpack in Far Rockaway. Neither will he care much if $100,000 cars are sold at a dealership or at a company store.
Tesla Motors should play the lobbying and PR game for only so long. If state after state bans TM's business model, then no more Mr. Nice Guy. It's time to use the legal heavy artillery. State dealer-protection laws are vulnerable to constitutional challenge, if TM is just willing to litigate.
How about a class action lawsuit on behalf of prospective car buyers who have been damaged by their inability to buy directly from Tesla due to these state laws interfering with constitutional interstate commerce?
Captain_Zap, you are so right. On this thread you see so many come to the defense of the this Governor, and try to blame Tesla.
jt, your support of the Governor is sad.. Most of us are Tesla enthusiasts.
Thanks goodness I live in New Jersey.
Sort of sorry to see this becoming a bunch of political comments and screeds. I spend enough time writing and reading political blogs to have been finding this forum sort of a breath of fresh air. Is that changing?
"Elections have consequences," someone up there said. Well, yes. But is this about political party or is it about, as most have pointed out, the power of lobbyists? Would a governor of a different political persuasion have been less influenced? What would be the evidence for that? Other than having saved the American auto industry, I mean.
I'd rather read, in this thread, about the arguments being made in favor of those anti-Tesla laws, so I could understand them. What I know about them doesn't make sense, from the point of view of consumers. How do legislators justify their votes?
Shouldn't have posted that. Used to being able to edit or delete after shooting off my mouth.
Elections have consequences. There is one coming up. http://news.yahoo.com/republican-unveils-bid-challenge-york-governor-cuo...
NY: First Bloomberg, now Cuomo. This is clearly driven by the traditional ICE Car Companies, who are puppeted by the Oil companies. I hate the oil companies, I hate Politicians, and this is EXACTLY why I boycott New York. It is full of corrupt slaves.
Elon, you are my hero. Keep it up, and don't let the Oil Company "Slaves" get you down. Press forward. Look how many partial "hybrids" have come out since Tesla launched. I gaurantee you that if Tesla had not entered the game, there would be a lot fewer Volts, Leafs, and all sorts of other crap cars designed to make consumers "think" that they are getting "more".
Knew I liked you for a reason-I grew up in Oceanside.
Still Grinning ;-)
I try to avoid the political threads, but back in the day, I had a job with the governor's dad when he was governor and I used to play basketball with Andrew's brother, Chris. I had a good impression of the family. That's not to say politics doesn't end up compromising people, I just would give him the benefit of the doubt based on personal history. I tried to find the source of this "news" and the best I came up with was third or forth hand...
"Deborah Dorman, president of the Eastern New York Coalition of Auto Dealers, was at that meeting and said Tuesday Cuomo aides told the group the governor would sign the bill if it passes."
Andrew has been proactive in this regard...
" The dealers say the bill doesn't target EV companies unfairly and just asks them to play by the same rules as everyone else,"
OK, how about this for playing by the same rules: Let other manufacturers set up their own sales channels, if they want. Free the consumer from the restraints imposed by the dealership mandate, a mandate that flies in the face of the free commerce policies this country is supposed to stand for.
Yeah, like that's going to happen - slaughter the politicians' cash cow? I don't think so.
"Restrain of trade" is a phrase that comes to mind constantly when I read about this issue. Is this not corruption?
The dealers are very afraid that the major companies will try to undercut them and try to do what Tesla is doing. The NADA can say all they want, that the laws in place are to protect the consumer. Which is true, but it's not you and I that are the consumer, it's them, the dealers. That is what the original law was designed to do. To protect the dealers being under sold by the factory. However, Tesla doesn't have any dealers to undercut. So why would the dealers really care..... Again, they don't want the majors to follow suit.
@ SeattleSid: "I'd rather read, in this thread, about the arguments being made in favor of those anti-Tesla laws, so I could understand them. What I know about them doesn't make sense, from the point of view of consumers. How do legislators justify their votes?"
Justifying something to the voters is easy. Unless it's something egregiously dishonest or immoral, all it usually takes is the standard boilerplate soundbite for whatever situation. Most people don't have the time or energy or interest to expect anything else or investigate further.
But I suspect it'd be a lot harder for a politician to justify his vote to an infuriated businessman or lobbyist, who has given him X hundred-thousand dollars in campaign contributions, played Y number of golf games with him at the top course in the state, introduced him to Z dozen other influential deep-pocketed friends, and expects a return on his investment.
That is a part of the message that I got at our Capitol. If your message or your support is not associated with an organization, it isn't recognized.
That isn't right and I've been seeking a resolution.
None found yet.
SeattleSid | March 5, 2014 new
How do legislators justify their votes?
They generally don't until they have to fudge them in the next campaign. Until then, disobey the whip at your peril.
Politics is organized crime, especially in a sclerotic state like NY. Sometimes it looks like Cuomo tries to do the right thing, but he is a product of the system.
I guess they could "level the playing field" by forcing MS owners to change their oil every 6K miles, carry around 15-25 gallons of explosive liquids, and belch pollution and CO2 into the atmosphere. The "dealers" could install pollution emitters and CO2 bottles to do that, since they wouldnt have to bother with oil changes, anti-freeze/coolant flush and fill, plugs, timing belts, valve adjustments, oil filters, air filters, mufflers, cat converters, etc. You'll never go wrong overestimating the small-mindedness and parochial interests pursued by politicians responding to the sound of closing wallets among their contributors..
@Mel I'm not going to apologize for my support of Governor Cuomo. His position on Tesla has been reported but might not be accurate. Besides, just because I might ultimately be disappointed with him on this one issue that doesn't mean he no longer deserves my support. I don't turn my back on people simply because I disagree with them. Do you?
"Thanks goodness I live in New Jersey."
I have never heard anyone ever say that before.
@PapaSmurf. Hilarious. They say that the reason New Yorkers are the way they are is because the light at the end of the tunnel is NJ.
Traditionalism is so boring! All these complaints about "this is not the way we do things" and "What about this old way" is just annoying. People have a choice. they can walk into a dealership and deal with all of that crap. Or they can walk inside of a "design studio" and be in direct contact (more or less) with the car they want built for them. Why can't everyone just exist and work together? Did they forget that most people can't afford a Tesla? So it's not like they're going to be lining up and camping outside. So annoyed with the "way things have always been".
@jtodman - I have your back.
I an VERY involved in NY politics. I saw the article and sent to the appropriate people for clarification. Governor Cuomo is extremely pro-electric. See NYSERDA program to encourage EV's.
I drove my Tesla to a reception at the Governors mansion recently. I was in DC the past few days for another conference. Of course, I drove the Tesla. MS60 by the way.
Nothing is happening on this front until after the budget April 1. Then an appropriate course of action can be devised. Right now, the spin from the dealers is that no dealers means no jobs. Not true.
The Republicans in NYS are anti-regulation, so I do not see them going for it.
just another reason to move to Fairfield county!
@kenj It's possiblle you know my daughter. Send me an email.
It may be chance to sell tsla now and buy after the bill ?
Why isn't there a petition drive going on for this?
Someone started another White House petition, which is failing because the first one didn't go anywhere. However, here we have a chance to influence state politics and at a local level. Someone who lives in NY and understands the issues should draft a petition at moveon.org, creedo or any number of other sites, get a lot of signatures, and deliver those to the desk of the governor.
The White House will do nothing, the feds have no authority here unless they sue states and take them to the supreme court. Our best shot is to curtail these laws where they start - in the state legislatures.
Right on, Brian H: the spectacle of elected people heading home and denying they voted a certain way, even condemning those votes as if it wasn't them, is high comedy and low tragedy rolled into one.
jt, I still like you. It is just this particular thread that I have a disagreement with you and the Governor.
I know you have been a great contributor to this forum. I hope you can see how I think Tesla should have the right to sell cars in N.Y. I singled you out for criticism because you are respected by all of us on this forum .
@Mel I singled you out for criticism because you are respected by all of us on this forum. Perhaps I should introduce you to modernjewels.
All I'm saying is that for a Progressive Democrat governor Cuomo has shown himself to be refreshingly conservative when dealing with some of the economic issues the state faces. If he signs this bill, I'll be surprised and very disappointed, but I'll understand that all politicians, if they want to retain power must sometimes bend to the power brokers.
jt, is modern jewels a critic of you and the Governor?..
Good news in Washington State: http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2023062637_apxxgrtesla.h...
Hopefully, Condotta will be defeated in the next election. Sid nice info.
Making Tesla the only direct seller is a band-aid. Condotta is right.
The report was that "if" the legislation gets to his desk .... maybe he knows something you do not.
Why have a battle when you do not need to. People should be talking to the legislators so it never there is no bill to sign.
Brian H, I reread the article, you are correct. Condotta is one of the few that know what is going on.
This is the land of the free and free enterprise, or so we are told.
It doesn't really matter what the politicians think the voters will do when they are due to get re-elected, all they see is the green the dealers are waving in their faces. I read they have 700 million to spend on this, and like the saying goes, "Money Talks", and that says do as I say, and not as I do.