"Out the door" price poll

"Out the door" price poll

What is the maximum "Out the door" price you are will to write a check for (before rebates). Please be realistic.

160 mi base MS 57400
Destination 1950
Options 10000
Tax/Fees 7000

Out the door check = $76,350

JoeFee | December 20, 2011

Now we know

100K+ for Sig & just under for Performance. I think average selling price will be 80K out-the-door.

JoeFee | December 21, 2011

Based on just published pricing: 81,840 with 230 bat and 6.750 in options

Trnsl8r | December 21, 2011

Right now I live about 20 min away from the factory and will be pretty pissed if I have to pay $1950 delivery charge and not be able to just pick it up at the factory. Mark my words, that would be a f*****g deal breaker...

For the record, the sales tax in my native Sweden is 25%, calculated on the sales price *and* applicable import taxes. Did I win?

mscottring | December 21, 2011

I'm torn. I very base model with maybe 12k in options, or the Performance model (which at it base price is a bargain!). I've got some pondering to do after the release of the price list that just came out. AH, I'm in luck, I have time!

ncn | February 18, 2012

Robert.Boston wrote:
"Tesla has to price its product to pay its U.S. taxes, which only increases the already-high VAT you pay."

While this is possibly true of Tesla's probably-sky-high property taxes (buying property in California subjects you to outrageous property taxes, thanks to Prop 13; though perhaps Tesla simply bought a company which owned the property, which would give it rock-bottom property taxes, thanks again to the outrageous Prop 13), it is not true in any other sense.

Tesla isn't going to be paying income taxes for a long time. Like all businesses, they get to roll Net Operating Losses forward for 20 years to cancel out any profits before taxes -- and currently Tesla expects, according to its annual report, that it will not be able to use all its NOLs, meaning that they don't expect profits to have paid off development costs by 2023. (Well, an aggressive expansion strategy will do that.)

Tesla doesn't pay sales taxes on exported cars, and as a business, it doesn't pay sales taxes on a lot of the equipment it purchases. It doesn't pay export taxes because the US has no export tariffs.

Tesla has to pay payroll taxes, of course, but these are lower than in most countries.

The main way in which Tesla is disadvantaged in tax terms by being in the US lies in *fees* and *mandates*. Tesla has to pay large, large numbers of fees, the most obvious of which are the numerous dealer and manufacturer license fees for each state, but there are lots more. And the fees are high, for things which are often cheap or free public services in other countries. So it would be more accurate to say that Tesla has to price its cars to pay US *fees*. You could also include things like soon-to-be-mandatory private health insurance for employees, which are, again, simply public services in many other countries.

brianman | February 18, 2012

"Tesla has to pay payroll taxes, of course, but these are lower than in most countries."

Continuing the OT...

Backing information for this assertion (the second half your statement)?

JohnQ | February 19, 2012

As long as we're staying off topic . . . If you are interested in all things payroll tax you can start at the wikipedia page ( and then dig into the complexities of each country (in particular the required employer contribution for various social insurance schemes).

The notes below exclude income tax and "safety net" withholding that employees are required to pay (employee contributions) and look at "safety net" contributions that the employer makes on behalf of the employee (employer contributions). I also do not include other required people expenses that might be incurred in each locale such as sick pay, vacation time, mandatory allowance schemes, etc.

In the US the employer contribution is 6.2% up to $106,800 for Social Security plus 1.45% on all wages for Medicare. In addition, there are state and federal unemployment taxes that are a little more complex (FUTA/SUTA) so we will ignore as it is usually less than 1% over the full salary.

**Note** Many US employers purchase health insurance on behalf of their employees whereas other countries have nationalized insurance that is paid in the form of government payroll taxes. I don't know Tesla's health insurance premiums, nor what they pay on the employee's behalf, but according to the BLS, private sector employers paid an average of 7.6% for health benefits. Call the all in rate for the US 16%.

In Germany the overall employer contribution is closer to 22% and is somewhat complex.

Brazil requires employers to contribute 20% of total payroll for social security.

Don't even go to France, it's well north of 30%.

The UK is incredibly complex with their national insurance coverage, allowances, maternity, sick pay, etc but suffice it to say that it's higher than the US (feel free to research if you like).

While this is just a smattering of countries, you get the picture. The US is indeed lower (and significantly lower in some cases when you adjust for differing vacation and sick pay rules). As a rule, emerging economies tend to have lower employer contributions than established economies.

vouteb | February 19, 2012

UK: Import Duty and 20% VAT


vouteb | February 19, 2012

I hope (not much...) that the UK price will be a Pound sterling amount lower than the $ amount (No exchange rate) but I don't hold my breath.

CPM | February 29, 2012

60KWH 80KHW Perf
Price 59,900 69,900 84,900
Options 10,200 10,200 7,200
Taxes 7,010 8,010 9,210
Total 77,110 88,110 101,310

Deposit -5,000 -5,000 -5,000
Federal -7,500 -7,500 -7,500
State -4,000 -4,000 -4,000
TradeIn -18,000 -18,000 -18,000
TSLA@(34) -13,600 -13,600 -13,600

Loan Amt 29,010 40,010 53,210

Wife says we can have a 50K loan balance when all said and done. What should we do? I was planning on 60KWH the whole time but now thinking of moving up. I drive 5-10 miles per day, might need to charge once per week.

Brian H | February 29, 2012

Go over the TeslaRumors site with her, and recalc your "TCO". Could help offset the loan costs more than you're thinking.

olanmills | February 29, 2012

@ChadMcGinn your federal tax credit(if it will even still exist) cannot be factored in your "out the door price" and therefore, your finance amount. The tax rebate is a credit your claim on your tax return. The same may be true of your your state tax rebate too, I dunno.

There have been proposals to turn the tax credit into an instant rebate (putting the burden on Tesla to claim it), but as of now, it's not instant.

Also, I could say the same thing about your "trade-in" unless you plan to sell your car before your buy your Model S. Tesla doesn't take trade-ins, do they?

Brian H | February 29, 2012

Speaking of trade-ins and rebates, etc., I wonder if the $7500 applies to fleet purchases, too. Deducted from corp. tax owing?

CPM | February 29, 2012

I did not stick to the title of the thread. I was stating the loan balance after all car related items. The tax credit will be there for 2012 so when the refund comes it can be applied to loan balance, I have a hard time believing in an election year many laws will be changed, no time for that when speeches need to be given.

IL has a straight cash amount for 4K.

Trade In should have been stated as sales proceeds. Current car will be sold on delivery date, proceeds applied to loan balance.

Robert.Boston | March 1, 2012

If you're seriously toying with the Performance option, then at least move up to the 85kWh pack to enjoy the extra performance it provides even with the standard powertrain. I think that the extra performance between the 60kWh and 85kWh packs is going to be very noticeable because it will affect acceleration at highway speeds: the two packs will have nearly identical 0-30 mph times, with the nearly the entire performance gap showing up in the 30-60 mph range.

BYT | March 1, 2012

I sold my car 4 months ago and took that money (about $10k) and put it all in TSLA stock. I can't factor that into my final price because we don't know what the stock will be at when Tesla comes a calling to ask when I want to take delivery. I also am still on the fence about the features that I want because I REALLY want the performance model and plan to keep my car for many many years to come to justify the extra costs.