Is the Performance Plus option necessary on the S? While I like the look of 21 inch wheels summer tires will never work in Chicago's winters.
It is not necessary, but it sure is nice to have if you want near state of the art (from what I hear).
It depends on what you are used to. I've always hated the floaty feeling in American cars. I like the tight feel of a BMW or Porsche. I ordered the P85+ in the hopes that the car feels tighter and more connected to the road than the regular P85 I test drove. Summer tires have poor grip below 30 or 40 degrees, even if the road is dry. I plan to get another set of rims and snow tires for November - March in Salt Lake City. I will keep the tire widths the same, but drop to 19 or 20 inch wheels for the snow tires.
I had my first test drive today in Belgium and I believe the Performance plus package might be worth it. I found the P85 a bit floaty on the front when accelarating firmly. small steering corrections where needed during the accelaration. my personal reference is AMG 63 CLS which is of course very sporty and (to ?) hard but then again never ever floaty.
personnaly I missed the firmness but I could appreciate the high degree of driving comfort. it's amazing considering the 21' wheels.
The P+ is not necessary at all. I have owned a 85 non-performance for 2 months and it is a "magic carpet ride".
BUT, I picked up my P85+ 2 days ago and.....it is a BLAST. The acceleration is unbelievable!!!
Just so it's clear. I want to get the Performance 85 model S but was just asking if the Performance Plus option was necessary.
IMHO, since you got the dough for P, splurge a little more and get the P+, and have no regrets later.
Agree with several posters here. I've had the P85 since December and the handling and floatiness during hard acceleration would definitely make the Plus worth it. The cornering in the P85 is great, but could certainly be better. It was not as tight as the M5 or 650 I had. My P85 was recently wrecked, so my replacement will be the P85+.
Wrecked?!? What happened?
My 2 cents power is not everything. Matter of fact it's more fun to drive a better handling car than a more powerful car. In the case of P+ you can get both then why not?
@rdalcanto long story. Other driver's fault. Car did beautifully as far as how you want a car to fare in a wreck. Not to hijack the thread...:-)
New thread! "My wrecked P85". It will be a smash hit!
Man, that really sucks. It's good to hear the car performed well in an accident though. I trust your insurance will cover the P85+ :-)
The P85 is a great car - I love mine. If I was ordering right now, and had the money, I would get the P85+. If I didn't have the money to splurge, you'll love the P85 anyways.
The P+ sure is nice but remember only a small faction of BMW and MB buyers bought M's or AMG's. Not everyone has enough justification for the high end models unless it's in money is no subject situation.
That's what I was thinking. The P+ is akin to the BMW M5 or MB AMG. I owned two BMW non-M 5 series and they drove great. (there were service issues however).
So if I get the P85 it will still be a super fast car with decent handling. Also, I really do not want to deal with switching to winter tires from the 21 inch wheels.
I test drove a P85 Signature series. Does anyone know if the Signature would have had the Performance Plus package?
No, The sigs. did not have the P+.
Only buy a P+ if you want INSANE acceleration.
I'm a lille confused. While I would LOVE INSANE acceleration, I was under the impression that the P+ package only affects handling, not acceleration. Would the P85 and P+85 have the same acceleration?
Yes teslamonkey, you are right.
The P might be as fast as the P+. (I only drove the P on my 10 min. test drive 6 months ago.) My thinking, I could be wrong, is that with the extra rubber on the road, the P+ might accelerate a little better.
+1 Skymaster: The P+ may be a fraction of a second faster but the real difference is the handling. If all you are worried about is straight line acceleration then you probably can't justify the increase cost.
Accel is likely rubber-limited, not power-limited? ;) Sounds about right.
I have a P85 Performance model and I have driven it up to its top speed several times. I find the Model S is quite lacking in the handling department above 100 mph. I have driven much sportier cars in the past, so I know how a great sports car feels at higher speeds. I haven't driven the Performance Plus model, but from what is described about the features, I think these enhancements should be extremely positive for high speed handling. The performance plus feature for all of the upgrades mentioned in this package, appears to be quite a reasonable value. To answer another question, with the larger rear tires and sportier rubber, the PPlus version should prove to be slightly faster under maximum acceleration when starting from zero than the non plus version.
The acceleration is the same on + and P85
Had a chance to drive both back to back.
The only thing that effects acceleration in the P+ package is the slightly wider rear tires. The point of the performance plus package is better handling.
I posted a review of a P85+ vs. a P85 here:
A section in the review offered my opinions on buying the performance plus package, though your watt hours per mile may vary. Excerpt below:
Advice for People Who have not yet Ordered
If you are planning on ordering a P85 with 21" wheels: Buy the Performance Plus. Its incremental $6500 price above what you have already ordered is well worth it IMHO. Have fun, take a test drive if you can find a P85+, but I do not think you need to, order with confidence.
If you are ordering a P85 with 19" wheels, then the incremental cost rises to $10000. In addition you have to figure in some of the down sides to 21" tires. The low profile tires provide a somewhat rougher ride (though still quite smooth), are much more expensive to replace, you have to replace them more frequently, and they are more susceptible to road hazards. At this point I would suggest you try and find a P85+ to test drive if you think you can afford the difference.
If you are ordering a 60 or regular 85 then the incremental price becomes quite large ($25,000 or more). It is really difficult to suggest a change just for the performance plus. (and you may be better off not knowing what you are missing so be careful of a test drive )
Your advice almost amounts to saying: Don't bother with the P85 with 21" wheels. Interesting.
I think it comes down to if you are a performance guy or not. If you have been driving an American sedan or any SUV for the last few years, P85 will be fine. If you have been in a sports car or BMW M series, etc., you will want the P85+. I am coming from a 2012 Porsche 911S and the P85 was way too floaty for me. I did not like the handling. I ordered the + based on the description. Based on the early reviews, I should be happy when I take delivery next week.
BrianH: For new buyers who are already planning to spend all the money to buy a P85 with 21" tires, yes I am saying (in my opinion only) they should just spend the extra $6500 and buy the P85+.
Can a p85 have the suspension upgraded?
Yes, they are working on it being an accessory.
I went from an E60 M5 to the P85+ and find the performance and handling quite similar, which is saying a LOT! The E60 M5 was a fabulous car. Go for the + !!
I have had my P85 in Norway for 3 days after a 7 month wait.
My test driver was a P85+ and there is absolutely a difference in feel between the two.
I love my P85, but regret not ordering the plus pack, as well as the mood lights & stereo upgrade (only for the DAB+, the normal stereo sounds great).
Obviously, the plus option is not necessary. BUT, I opted for it since I was driving a BMW m3 before and love a firm suspension over too much compliance. I was not disappointed. However, I am sure the non-plus suspension is more than fine too. I would try to test drive both and see if you mind the difference. There are some interesting threads on coil versus air suspension which might help the OP with his decision as well. Ciao.
If you don't want that floaty feeling of a Lexus or Mercedes, consider getting the coils. Less float.
IMHO, it comes down to personal preference. Some people feel the P85+ is too stiff, while others think the P85 is too soft. There is no right answer, just preference.