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Suggestion: Lane Position Control

Suggestion: Lane Position Control

I am sure that someone has suggested this before, but maybe if it gets suggested enough, they will do it.

My suggestion is the ability to control where in the lane the car drives. In general, the car stays to the middle of the lane. But, maybe on a major highway, if you are in the left lane, you want it to go more towards the left side of the lane. Or maybe you are coming up on a large truck hugging the line and you just want to adjust over to give them more space. I have heard this suggested in reference to Motorcycles in California, where they are allowed to ride down the middle of the lane, so being able to bias to one side or the other allows for more room. For me, I am on one lane each way roads a lot, with large shoulders, I would prefer the car ride more towards the outside line.

As for control of it, allow the user to choose in a setting for the right steering wheel control, have the left/right motion be either to adjust the lane position or change the following distance. I know I would probably adjust the lane position more than I would adjust the following distance.

Thoughts?

Related, is there any good way to get suggestions to the engineers working on the software for things like this? Other than posting here hoping that they do read them occasionally?

Thanks

Joshan | August 14, 2019

that goes against everything Tesla is trying to do. They want the car to drive and decide not you. If you want to drive, than drive.

Magic 8 Ball | August 14, 2019

I will not allow bikes to push me into the debris field. Lane splitting needs to go away. Center of lane is safest for us. I never see cars in #2 lane move to the right putting them dangerously close to #3 lane vehicles.

MDMatt | August 14, 2019

Along those lines, then I think the suggestion is, have the car do a lot better lane positioning on it's own. So it knows that there is more room on one side or the other and can be "safer" there. I know that we have this one pretty sharp turn in the road, and the car stays right at the middle of the lane, but it does impact other drivers, because people tend to cross over towards inside of the curve. If you are on the inside lane, you cross over the white line into the shoulder some, and the people in the outside lane either get really close to the yellow or cross it. Yes, I know that the car should not have to deal with bad behaviors from other drivers, but until every car is autonomous or we have Tesla only roads, we have to drive with other drivers.

My example of the large truck on the highway, I would love for the car to "know", that truck is right on the line, i have space on the other side, let me give a little more space there.

CharleyBC | August 14, 2019

Rather than having me set some left/center/right preference, I'd rather the lane positioning algorithm got smarter or more human-like (whatever exactly that means).

Even in your original post, you cite scenarios where it might be better to be more to the left or more to the right. I don't want to keep tweaking it.

The one that comes up for me most often is the 18-wheeler running close to (or on) the lane line beside me. I'd very much like Autosteer to "cheat" away from the truck, especially if the opposite lane is open or a wide shoulder. In short, do what a human driver would probably do.

I bet this is coming at some point...

RoadDevil | August 14, 2019

Better to allow driver to move 1 foot or so to either side of a lane without cancelling AP when it is needed for lane splitting or for avoiding potholes , small objects, etc..

Joshan | August 14, 2019

says you, it goes against everything Tesla is trying to do. If they feel that makes the driving experience safer they will change the cars AI to move out of the middle. Adding more user driving controls is the opposite of what they need to or want to do.

RoadDevil | August 14, 2019

@joshan,

As if you know everything ‘Tesla is trying to do’ LOL. Is Tesla trying to do to avoid objects on the road?

Joshan | August 14, 2019

Tesla #1 objective per Elon is FSD. Driver aids to band-aid are not FSD. Seems fairly obvious. Can you imagine the FUD campaign that would ensue on how AP sucked so bad they had to dummy it down?

RoadDevil | August 14, 2019

IF and WHEN FSD comes, they can take the ‘band-aid’ off, meanwhile it helps to give driver some freedom to maneuver over some hazardous conditions while on AP, it is not mutual exclusive.

Joshan | August 14, 2019

I would not hold me breath if I were you. The chances IMO or between 0% and 0% but good luck. I use AP/NoaP literally everywhere I drive and do not have any issues . /shrug.

I only take it out for weird areas, stop lights, stop signs and turns.

RoadDevil | August 14, 2019

I do not ‘hold breath’ for anything, including FSD, but I do hold hope that Tesla does something about it before FSD.

posinator | August 14, 2019

Not sure what the exact gesture should be, but this would be a great way to train the 'net to act more naturally, esp if you allow data

EVRider | August 14, 2019

I agree with the Joshan's comments that adding controls like this goes against what Tesla is trying to accomplish. From Tesla's point of view, the car can (and should) stay within the lane better than you can. If you need (vs. want) to be able to tweak lane position, we can't get to real full self driving.

eplaskett | August 14, 2019

@joshan

Your same logic would apply to auto lane change settings (from Mild to Mad Max), yet Tesla implemented those, because for now, in the pre-FSD world, they make sense.

Ideally, (E)AP should be able to place you in the safest spot in your lane relative to other traffic and barriers, rather than just centering you there. Absent that being automated, it would be nice to have a toggle to bias towards the right or left. I know when I pass a semi, I like to give them as much room as possible, particularly when there's a crosswind.

Tesla2018 | August 14, 2019

I was driving today with TACC and next to a semi and something flashed on the screen that it auto tpok over the car. Everything seemed normal to me but let's say you're driving and a semi just happens to go over the line into your lane, or comes a little too close to you on the side, does the Tesla automatically move over so its not in the center of the lane?

rwa | August 14, 2019

More intelligent lane positioning would certainly be nice, but I don't think adding manual controls is in the cards.

I do a lot of driving on fairly narrow back roads with curves, and a lot of high-speed traffic coming the other way including big rigs. When there's a big rig 6" from the centerline coming the other way and I'm cornering to the right, I certainly don't want to be in the middle of the lane, I want to be hugging the right edge of the road as much as possible. In situations like these, autopilot trying to stay bang-on the center of the lane creates far more stress than it takes away.

PaulM3 | August 15, 2019

I would also appreciate a way to tell Autosteer to cheat left or right. There are a number of cases where it's required (being passed, lane splitting), or just desired (narrow shoulder, big truck) - therefore I see nothing wrong with asking for it. As far as consistency with Tesla's vision for FSD - this is a great way to learn! If users are making those changes manually, then the neural net should consider the sensor input at the time and possibly anticipate the "cheat left" or "cheat right" behavior automatically in the future.

EVRider | August 15, 2019

Who says the users who are tweaking the lane position are good drivers and should contribute to fleet learning? No thanks.

M3phan | August 16, 2019

@EVRider, +1

rsharman | August 16, 2019

I would really like the ability to make autosteer not try and stay in the centre of the lane. Often I am in the right hand lane where there is a shoulder on right right and traffic on the left. So it makes sense to me to allow more room between this car and the others (that certainly may not be in the centre of the lane).

rsharman | August 16, 2019

I would really like the ability to make autosteer not try and stay in the centre of the lane. Often I am in the right hand lane where there is a shoulder on right right and traffic on the left. So it makes sense to me to allow more room between this car and the others (that certainly may not be in the centre of the lane).

jebinc | August 17, 2019

FWIW, I think it (FSD) is and should be an evolution to FSD, starting with basic driver aids (or similar) to what all other cars have already as safety aids, e.g, Subaru Eyesight. I really don’t give a rats arse what Musk says, does it smokes, but do care about Tesla and the journey they are on.

posinator | August 17, 2019

EVRider "Who says the users who are tweaking the lane position are good drivers and should contribute to fleet learning? No thanks."
--------------------------
but but this is how neural nets generationally learn. by taking the millions/billions of miles of camera/control data by all us drivers along with artificial/cg 'camera' data and creating a driving model which gets converted to a bajillion nodes in your car's MCU's net.
exception events, like when a driver would tweak a lane position like OP's suggestion, would be sent in special packets to further help the training model.
centering is a pre-built behavior probably, but is certainly open for tweaking, and surely will be (with help from us and input like op's suggestion)

F.vanalstine | August 17, 2019

I head for the right edge of the lane on two lane roads when there is oncoming traffic. Tesla should allow this with auto steer.

Two reasons:

First, it puts more space between me and approaching traffic and space is your friend.

Second, the second car in an oncoming line can see me sooner and not attempt a pass into me. It also gives me more time to get off the lane onto the right shoulder to avoid the idiot.

For what it is worth, a good definition of a safe driver is one who has not had to lock his brakes to avoid an accident in the past ten years.

Me, not even a fender bender in the past sixty years.

Frsnk

bill | August 18, 2019

Yes, my wife and I often come out of Autopilot when a truck in the next lane is crowding us. I hope Autopilot will become a little more aware of driver comfort level in such situations.

jebinc | August 18, 2019

@F.vanalstine - Good input, Frank!

Zooner | August 18, 2019

Mine seems to stay a little right of center. Makes passing struck unnerving. I was gonna ask service to see if mine needs calibration to not be right of center.

MDMatt | August 19, 2019

I do think that Tesla does need some way for the algorithm to have a little better lane positioning and how they reach that point and how long it takes, I do not know, but hopefully it is something that is on their radar.

On a related but different note. I was watching Science Chanel, and the show was talking about automating the container yards where they take the containers off ships and related things. They have an automated system that picks and places containers where they need to be, works great. BUT, they found that the computers were too accurate. They would go over the exact same spot every time, until they were wearing a grove in the pavement in that one line. So, they tweaked their algorithm so that it would slowly adjust the lanes over a few inches every week to help spread out the wear on their surface.

I am not saying that car manufacturers or Tesla in specific should do anything like that, but it does make for an interesting thought, when all the cars are driven by robots, will you get groves in the road where every car drives in the exact same lines. Maybe states can realize this and make those center sections that much stronger to prepare.

Just something interesting to think about. One of those possible unintended consequences.