Superchargers in PA (and the Northeast in General) - If you build it we will buy

Superchargers in PA (and the Northeast in General) - If you build it we will buy

I have been staring at that darn supercharger map for as long as I have been convinced that the Tesla S is the best car out there for me. So no need to convince of all of its virtues. But I have struggled with purchasing now for issue of range. Not anxiety, but rather the huge disincentive of time. And the NE map has not changed at all.

I live in Central PA, and I cannot drive to the Philly airport and back without charging somewhere. And even if I stopped at the King of Prussia Mall, it would be a minimum charge time of 2 hours. Importantly, my wife has already stated she doesn't want to drive a long distance and have to stop for several extra hours each way for charging (a new wife is not an option - I love this one and its been 30 years). I am an early adopter so this has been an agonizing issue for me.

So the presence of a Supercharger Station ANYWHERE along a reachable corridor would be huge. route 80, route 476 (NE Turnpike extension), route 276 (PA Turnpike) - anywhere near Philly - would be a tremendous start. Yet the same 3 superchargers are sitting there - Newark DE, and the 2 ones in CT. PA and the NE in general are simply void of red dots. And if you overlay population density map and supercharger map, you'll see a huge discordance in PA and the NE.

When I asked the King of Prussia Tesla store guy about this, he said they were waiting to see how many cars were sold in PA before making a decision. But this is a chicken-egg/catch 22 conundrum. And while free electricity at the SC stations is great, I would be happy to pay a nominal fee, or even a yearly fee, if it would help accelerate the infrastructure build - suspect most Tesla-ites would agree.

So I am here to say, Tesla, if you build it, we will buy now. Can I have an "Amen" from any of my PA brethren/sisters who are almost ready to pull the trigger but need a little supercharge to do so?

ppape | September 8, 2013

I don't live in PA, but here's some input. I agree....keep the wife & her car..... she likely drives an ICE. Use her car for airport trips. Buy the Tesla for everything else, and before you know it, Superchrgers will be there.


skymaster | September 8, 2013


If you buy a Model S, you will soon quit the ICE and never look back!

negarholger | September 8, 2013

Or wait until you have the right SC in your area. In 2014/15 Tesla needs buyers too.
On the other hand what are you waiting for... are you 19? I didn't want to miss a single minute... best decision in a long time.

Volleyguy | September 8, 2013

In Norway there is 6 SC already (with 5 million people) covering I hear 90% of the country and here in Ontario with 13 million people we have none that I know yet running and couple coming?

I guess the people with $10 a gallon gas get the fastest service! Can't blame Tesla!

farzyness | September 8, 2013

Bethlehem, PA here. Frequent visitor to State College for Penn State games. A supercharger along 78 or 80 would be freaking awesome. Ideally they should also put a station somewhere on campus. Actually, Tesla should somehow partner with higher learning institutions and install superchargers on their campuses. Would be pretty awesome :D

tes-s | September 8, 2013

I hear ya. I got my MS a month ago - love it. Since then, Tesla has delayed the SCs I was counting on (NJ and MA).

Still love the car - but disappointed in their lack of enthusiasm in the Northeast. Would love to see a charger in central PA near Harrisburg so I could drive to WVU in Morgantown - but that is a long way off.

On the bright side - they are adding locations in CA, and even expanding the existing ones.

bonaire | September 8, 2013

@farzyness. Are you alumni? Donate for on campus chargers. Not just tesla but rather higher output J1772. I donated to my alma mater and my son's college to install six J1772 on campus to add to the ones they already have. Teslas are not the only car out there. I want to help grow the use of smaller EVs by students who cannot afford a Tesla but perhaps a Lead or Volt or Spark EV.

Anyone with good finances and who wants to donate, you can donate atock to your institution of choice and then the school can use the unrealized gains along with some states like NY who have matching funds.

Donate to colleges to spur on more EV adoption. musk cant do it alone.

bonaire | September 8, 2013

(Leaf... Stock..) typos

Pungoteague_Dave | September 8, 2013

Djinn1 - the Philly airport has chargers at PreFlight parking - I use them when going through that airport for international flights, despite living near Baltimore - works fine - not as good as the plethora of free Level 2 chargers at BWI's public parking lots:

However, central PA is a SC-wasteland - could not drive from Baltimore to Rochester for a wedding last weekend in the S - had to take an ICE because 325 miles is just too long for a one-way day trip, and level-2 charges take too much time to be practical for adding 100 miles mid-day. There is supposed to be a SC near Harrisburg, and another near Elmira if I read the map correctly, so this should not be an issue a couple years out....

tes-s | September 8, 2013

I'm surprised how low on the list Harrisburg is. I live in CT and that seems like a no-brainer for an important location particularly for people in Philadelphia and southern NJ.

shop | September 8, 2013

I am surprised by that Tesla rep comment. I would expect Tesla to be acquiring locations and pulling permits throughout the country by now. Why wait a year? Acquisition and permitting is so unpredictable, that Tesla should have a lot of irons in the fire.

Djinn1 | September 8, 2013

I wish I understood the process and delays better. The problem isn't the technology, and certainly it is a huge marketing tool in the areas in which there is SC penetrance,

So why is it taking so long to get a few superchargers in PA and/or the NE? Local politics? Cost? Other?

I "hear" the other comments ... go for it now, its a blast - i get all that... but I take a lot of business trips, and need my car to be reliable and my trips "timely". Right now, the TS doesn't fill the bill simply because of the lack of Superchargers, and a map that doesn't change color (ie the whole supercharger roll out remains a lot of smoke and mirrors, until some real momentum is observed).

I would love to take that next step but practicality is still winning over.

C'mon Tesla, give us a sign!

Brian H | September 9, 2013

Definitely chicken and egg. TM is responding to "density" of purchases and demand.

Docrob | September 9, 2013

You cant use your wife's car for the business trips until the superchargers are installed?

Benz | September 9, 2013

On the summer Supercharger Map there were 4 more Supercharger grey dots in the North-East of the US to go live in the summer, and officially the summer is not over yet. We may get some news about those during the next 2 weeks.

tes-s | September 9, 2013

"Summer" was July when Elon made comments about the SCs in May. Tesla de-committed to that, and left us on our own to speculate that summer meant September 21.

With 12 days to go, even Tesla is not pretending to achieve the already-delayed summer schedule. With all the speculation that the delay is primarily due to permitting, the idea the permits can be pulled and construction completed in 12 days is preposterous.

They are behind schedule, and seem to have de-committed to the SC network particularly in the Northeast. Sure Elon "doubled-down" saying he had completed plans for his cross-country trip - perhaps he has delayed it a year? He did not announce the timing.

@djinn1 is smarter than I - I bought 2 months ago thinking Tesla was going to buildout the SC network they committed to, since they had met or exceeded previous milestones. I also thought it was part of their plan to reduce objections and increase sales, and with sales/revenues ahead of schedule I figured they have the resources to deliver.

Using my ICE for trips, or scheduling extra time for charging. A far cry from Elon's cross-country trip where he will not have any dedicated charging time - just charge while he is sightseeing or doing other activities.

hamer | September 9, 2013

What is even worse is the complete lack of information coming from Tesla. They have missed their targets (and renaming the targets from the original dates to vague "Summer," "Fall," doesn't mean they've missed less) and are giving us no information as to why, how, when, or even where. They must know more than they are telling us, but they seem to have decided it is less bad to leave us completely clueless than to give us some information.

Benz | September 9, 2013

@ tes-s

"Tesla de-committed to that, and left us on our own to speculate that summer meant September 21."

Could you be more precise about that?
How did Tesla de-committed to that?

Volleyguy | September 9, 2013

This is what I have been saying on these threads. In the U.S. gas is no big deal in Norway it is and EV's are over 5% of the total car market compared to .6% in the U.S.. Tesla has more than one SC per million people in Norway. That would be like the U.S. having 400 SC's.

I bet Norway will rocket to 50% EV's in a very short time. At this rate Norway will be at 50% before the U.S. is at 5%.

The U.S. with high incomes and lowest gas prices in the Western world is a disincentive for Tesla.

If you were Tesla where would you put your resources? Tesla's execution in Norway was VERY fast on SC's. So it is not inability to execute the market case is just VERY solid there for EV's and can they afford not to be there in a VERY big way?

tes-s | September 9, 2013

In May Elon said the SCs would triple by July (that was the summer schedule). Did not happen.

They decommitted by changing the SC schedule on their website, not meeting their summer schedule, and not making any type of announcement about the delay.

Elon doubling-down with his tweet about completing the planning for his xcountry trip just makes it worse. Perhaps his new plan is to do it in 2014 instead of 2013? He did not say.

Volleyguy | September 9, 2013

We have to look on the bright side when Norway goes all EV that will be 250,000 barrels of oil dumped on the world market!

The question to me is do Americans think the U.S. government should do something about this i.e. much higher gasoline taxes? That will be a political hot potato!

Raise gas to $8 a gallon in the U.S. and then watch Tesla execute!

tes-s | September 9, 2013

You make a good case for commitment to Norway including SCs, and decommitment to the US.

Tesla is a company with shareholders. They invest where they can get the best return. Apparently, they do not think that is the Northeast right now.

So why don't they update their SC map to reflect that, so @djinn1 (and the rest of us) will know their "real" SC plan, not the "marketing" plan.

Benz | September 9, 2013

@ tes-s

The only change I have seen is that the Summer slide of the US Supercharger Map has been deleted, while the summer is not over yet. That indeed is odd. But those summer grey dots have not been removed, yet they do appear on the Fall Supercharger map as well.

I think it has all got to do with the permits that have to be realised first before anything can be done.

I still do think that we could see some progress in the next few weeks.

Volleyguy | September 9, 2013

That will be interesting for Tesla to say we have installed a record number of SC's! Then go on to say they just are across the ocean and the cord won't reach!

I live in Canada and it is slow here as well.

Norway has created a scenario where one has to say why would I "not" buy an EV? One would have to think long and hard. I like the sound of a ICE? The style of a certain model is only available as an ICE?

Norway is going to be the talk of the world real soon and Tesla will want a piece of that talk. (when they go over 50% ICE)

tes-s | September 9, 2013

@Benz - I have a hard time reconciling "is has all got to do with permits" and "we could see some progress in the next few weeks".

If permitting is the issue, how can SCs magically appear "in the next few weeks"?

Over half the "summer" SCs (that were initially July, then September) are now delayed 3 months to "fall".

tes-s | September 9, 2013

@vollerguy - Norway geography is such that 6 SCs can cover the country. Canada and the US are a bigger challenge, but they do know how to do it and have a plan. The problem is they are just not executing it.

Benz | September 9, 2013

@ tes-s

Remember that in the US there are many people who do not want Tesla Motors to succeed at all. Some of these people have the power to delay the progress of Tesla Motors. For example: the progress of the Supercharger Network. We must not forget that.

tes-s | September 9, 2013

Fair enough. But that is old news - do you think that caught Tesla by surprise?

We are just speculating. All we know is the SC network is delayed. Tesla has not told us why or given any assurrances that they will meet their revised schedule.

John56 | September 9, 2013

I live in the western burbs of Philly (West Chester) and would LOVE to see a SC installed in Carlysle at the intersection of 81 and the turnpike. That would cover a lot of traffic going North/South as well as East West and is about 1 1/2 hours west of Philly.
Also, the population of all Norway is about what the population of the greater Philly area is. Norway has HUGE incentives for electric cars that make buying the Tesla a no brainer compared to buying them here. I wouldn't even be surprised if the Norsk gov't isn't subsidizing the Superchargers, unlike the battle Tesla has here trying to get permits from all the localities they want to install them in.

John56 | September 9, 2013

By the way the Newark, De SC really isn't a crazy out of the way charging option for Lancaster area residents heading for the airport.

Benz | September 9, 2013

That's right, we do not have any assurrances from Tesla. Although I do think that they are doing the best they can.

And it might have been better if Elon Musk had not mentioned that the number of Supercharger would be trippled.

In fact I think that it would have been better to have just one 2013 Supercharger map (with a 2014 and a 2015 Supercharger map as well), and that the summer and fall Supercharger maps would have been left out. Than some people would not be that disappointed as they are now. And Tesla Motors would have more time to make things happen. So to have added a Summer map and a Fall map can be seen as a slight mistake, in my opinion.

tes-s | September 9, 2013

That is what they have now - 2013, 2014, and 2015.

They have opened 20 SCs in a year.
They have 100 more SCs listed for 2013 and 4 months to go.

Nobody would be happier than I if they achieved it. I am a believer, but not a fool.

Benz | September 9, 2013

Tomorrow morning there is a Tesla Motors press conference at the IAA Frankfurt motorshow.

I have made the following request to somebody who will be present there tomorrow morning:

"I would like you to point out to who ever will be speaking on behalf of Tesla Motors (JB Straubel / Gilbert Passin) there during the press conference in Frankfurt tomorrow morning, that the progress with the Supercharger build-out in the US seems a bit disappointing to some people in the US (if you get the chance to do that). Specially along the North-West part of the East Coast of the US, as up to now only 1 Supercharger location has gone live since May 30th, and four "summer" grey dots in that area which were to go live in the summer still have not gone live, and are not very likely to go live before September 21st 2013 (end of summer)."

Maybe we will get some answers on this topic.

bobinfla | September 9, 2013

I believe there were 8 Superchargers when Elon made his announcement about tripling. They are now at 19, so still five short of tripling. I think there is a Texas SC opening tomorrow, and the Daytona FL is in construction as we speak, so very close also. From what I saw posted for the other two Florida Superchargers, once the first shovel broke ground it was a matter of just a couple weeks to get them completed and operational, so not a stretch to believe the remaining three could be right around the corner as well. So I'm not seeing the major delays that others seem to see. Overall progress seems to be pretty much on track, though maybe not the specific one someone was looking for.

tes-s | September 9, 2013

His comment was triple by July - 60 days from when he made the comment. Perhaps they will triple by September, which would be 120 days.

I see taking twice as long as the CEO states as being a major delay. They are not on track in aggregate, by region, or for specific locations planned to have been open by now.

Maybe they have a whole bunch that have been covertly permitted that nobody has found, and they are going to add 100 more by the end of the year and catch up. All they have to do is open 6 a week.

Benz | September 9, 2013

September 10th: Waco, Texas.
September 12th: Rockford, Illinois.

That's two more red dots to the US Supercharger map.

tes-s | September 9, 2013

That is great news! Just need 4 more this week to keep on track for the 2013 schedule.

Djinn1 | September 9, 2013

So to summarize, it appears that there are those that have bought their car already who are disappointed in the lack of timely expansion of the supercharger network In Pennsylvania and the Northeast in general, and those who Have yet to buy their car who are equally concerned about the lack of expansion.

What would really help in this situation is simply some additional information on the part of Tesla. This is a precarious time for Tesla- I am not sure how saturated they are with the early adopters, but if they want to start moving sales into the early majority, they are going to need to step it up a notch in terms of Providing a more enhanced supercharger infrastructure.

When there is no information available, people tend to be polarized into oh it's going to happen just wait, and those that state it will never occur. Tesla, give us a sign. I think all of us would be very appreciative, and also understanding if things are delayed, but still moving forward. All of us on this forum want this to work

tes-s | September 9, 2013

Well said. I bought my MS because things were "good enough". I'm looking forward to SCs in NJ and MA to convert almost all my remaining ICE miles to MS miles.

drp | September 9, 2013

I can only say that well,....there's was this horse and it came straight from the horses mouth.. there are many charger's opening between 9/12 and 10/31..just sayin'. I am sure that the PA., MD. and Conn. corridor with have a few more. Florida with proliferate.

drp | September 9, 2013

Florida will.....

Benz | September 9, 2013

@ tes-s

You are talking about 6 Superchargers to go live in one week. How about 6 Superchargers to go live in one day? Tesla Motors just did that in Norway on August 30th.

negarholger | September 9, 2013

It would be detrimental to the process for TM to publish a detail list of upcomming SC locations. Tesla has to be opportunistic... do what you can do now and work on locations you want, but have delays. Imaging if number two on list is finished before number one... many useless phone calls to TM why? Not helpful at all.
Orders exceed production right now and wait times increase... people on the fence are potential customers for the future.
In addition most people not having the car yet are way overestimating the importance of SC... I have two close by and really don't need them.

Djinn1 | September 9, 2013

DRP - I would love it if your horse speaks the truth. "Wilburrrrr......."

tes-s | September 9, 2013

I don't live in Norway...or California. Those SCs do me no good until they have a string of them between where I am and where those SCs are.

Neither do the two (or three soon to be four, depending on how you count) in the Northeast that are near me. If I can get to those SCs (Darien and Milford), I can get home if I'm returning, and have a full charge if I am leaving.

This thread is about the Northeast. There is one (DE) that is in range and potentially useful to me, though I have not used it yet. One. Uno.

Two that are VERY important to me (NJ and MA) are scheduled for "summer" which initially was advertised as July, later assumed to be September 21, and now just lumped in to "sometime in 2013".

The Tesla schedule for the US is to open an average of 6 a week through the end of the year. I hope they do it, and I hope some of them are in the Northeast.

negarholger | September 9, 2013

@tes-s - we all know your sentiment, you have been vocal enough. I hope Tesla will overload the Northeast with SCs soon.

tes-s | September 9, 2013

No need for overload. Just convert their gray dots to red according to their published schedule, that is all.

Djinn1 | September 9, 2013

"overloaded with superchargers" - a double entendre AND an oxymoron (I don't think you can have too many!) :-)

negarholger | September 9, 2013

Super charger overload - absolutely, you can't have too many.

Benz | September 9, 2013

@ tes-s

In one of your prior posts you have mentioned: "They have 100 more SCs listed for 2013 and 4 months to go."

Well, if we look at the dots on the US Fall Supercharger map (which should be active before the winter, starting December 21s 2013), then I count 52 Superchargers that still have to go live. And still 14 weeks to go till the end of fall 2013. That's about 3 per week on average, and not 6 per week as you have mentioned.