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Tesla Model S Performance has finally met its match

Tesla Model S Performance has finally met its match

Dragtimes finally got both cars together. Just in reference to acceleration, both cars couldn't be more evenly matched. Tesla's advantage has always been its launch capability off of the line. The Porsche Taycan is right there with it. Taycan is certainly better at the top end. But for the 1/4 mile race, just depends on who launches better.

Tesla will have an answer with the new 3 motor version. But for now, strictly related to acceleration alone, Porsche has at a MINIMUM, matched Tesla and certainly outdone them at higher speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWlKAFBMeAc

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

Both very impressive. The second gear and HP advantage kick in... Model S will need a redesigned powertrain to overcome that. Can’t wait to see the next versions of both cars.

Earl and Nagin ... | May 5, 2020

Yay! finally after over a decade, the esteemed leader in automotive performance creates something that is competitive with the upstart. Kudos to VW for making the change.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

I'd like gear ratio data to support suppositions about the gearing helping materially at higher speeds. My understanding was the additional gear was more oriented towards being a granny gear for brisker, low end acceleration and the higher gear was not significantly different than the Tesla monogear. Sounds like a toss up for now at the track. Plaid will change all that.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

It’s not a toss up at the track. Model S can’t sustain its performance as long because of fundamental design limitations. This is why an update is needed and what I’m hoping Tesla does sooner rather than later. There’s zero chance Tesla can handle, brake or sustain top speed like the Porsche. The only track a Model S has a chance on is a 1/4 IF the Taycan driver launches late. Otherwise that tall single gear and lower HP at the wheels will show itself. But it’s good that DragTimes has confirmed what was predicted by the math.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

$206k vs $103k.

RedShift | May 5, 2020

As E&N said, this is a decade old platform. Long in the tooth.
That it can still be so competitive in the 1/4th mile race is telling.

Let’s wait for the new S.

Darth, a 5200 lbs curb weight and ‘dead numb steering’ are not ‘features’ either. They are, as you were saying ‘fundamental design limitations’.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

Tesla looked quicker to about 120 give or take. The quarter will be the Tesla's.
Taycan range was 236 miles.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

It doesn’t take much to for an EV to be good in the 1/4 mile. But the Taycan Turbo and Turbo S are still quicker simply by the way they are geared. Nothing Model S can do about that without a redesign. The difference is trivial but it exist. Even the Taycan 4S is faster once you go past the 1/4 mile and will catch any Model S variant on the way to top speed. Here it is explained mathematically: https://youtu.be/Uum9nffLasQ

Tropopause | May 5, 2020

I think the Tesla will win on a properly prepped 1/4 track, assuming even launches by both cars. Whatever will the public think when Plaid unveils with more performance and more range?

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

I wonder if actual quarter mile times will settle it for the doubters. Not sure why Porsche, or anybody else, doesn't try harder if "it doesn't take much for an EV to be good in the 1/4 mile."

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

I wonder if people will realize that Taycan isn’t just for drag racing and is focused on all around driving performance.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

@Tropopause why do you think that? It’s just simple math. For Tesla to beat that car in acceleration, they need a redesign. Otherwise it’s physically impossible. So when Model S does win, it’s because of the drivers. But if that is eliminated as a variable, Taycan will just plain out accelerate a Model S. But it is impressive what Tesla is able to get out of the car with the current design and SW updates. It just goes to show you that the cost to get those extra tenths and hundredths of a second go up exponentially. This means for most people who don’t push cars to the limit, Model S is the best buy assuming they do not have a brand preference of course. But if you’re looking for ultimate all around performance, then you have to give it to Taycan.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

Keep in mind I have been saying this for months BEFORE there was a Cheetah Stance update. That means Model S closed the gap a bit in 1/4 mile. But from the video it’s clear there is still a gap. Tesla is impressive for what they built and it’s longevity. Porsche is impressive for their version 1.

Earl and Nagin ... | May 5, 2020

@Darth,
I wonder if people will realize that Model S isn't for drag racing (or racing at all) and is focused on being a premium family sedan.
I wonder if people will realize that Taycan is desperately focused on beating a 10 year old family sedan in whatever driving situation they can.
Bully for them though!! Kudos for finally getting serious about the electric drive train and showing that they might actually be able to do it! Let's hope they win Pikes Peak this year as well.
That we're even having this discussion is why Tesla's worth what it is and why we Tesla fanboys have been as we are, some of us for over 14 years now.
I hope that Volkswagon (translation "People's Car") takes their capability and runs with it, however, as @BH hints: $206K is even farther from being a "People's Car" than any Tesla.
Tesla could possibly invest their $$$ in beefing up the cooling and brakes but they're busy delivering 10's of thousands of Model S per year and that's their focus.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

"Taycan will just plain out accelerate a Model S.*

*except to 60 mph and over the quarter mile.

FIFY.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

No, Taycan beats Model S in 1/4 mile as well. 0-60 is too close to call for me and I consider it a meaningless metric in the context of a race between these cars.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

@Earl BH’s “hint” is misguided. VW has a whole brand dedicated to “people’s cars”. Porsche is a hyper focused racing/performance oriented brand.

RedShift | May 5, 2020

@darth

“ I wonder if people will realize that Taycan isn’t just for drag racing”

Do YOU? A dead steering a curb weight greater than some popular pickup trucks is NOT about performance.

You just can’t face those facts, can you. Just keep repeating rhetoric, in the hope that you will ‘win’ arguments?

SMH.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

OK Redshift. Keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile the rest of the world will continue to praise the Taycan’s handling.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

0-60 Tesla 2.3 vs Taycan 2.4
1/4 mile Tesla 10.5 vs Taycan 10.5
per https://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/
Records
Tesla 10.41
Taycan 10.47

Tldickerson | May 5, 2020

BH, I see it different for the 1/4 mile.

https://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/

RedShift | May 5, 2020

@darth

“ Keep telling yourself that. ”

I don’t have to. The Porsche website lists the curb weight, and Motor Trend has reported the numbness in the steering.

It’s not ME who needs to keep telling myself things in order to square what’s in my head with reality. It’s you. Constantly.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

@TId
The links don't share the data--just your cached results, I think. zeroto60 listed 10.5 as the best times for both cars. Deeper searches revealed record time slips with the better numbers.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

We have consistently seen Taycan beat Model S in every race from drag to circuit. A website that compiles marketing specs won’t make that up. They said it in the DragTimes video that the Taycan is just plain faster and better as a sports car. Hopefully Plaid will take back the crown and not compromise build quality or reliability, otherwise this debate is settled.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

From Dragtimes, best Taycan quarter mile is 10.520. Tesla is 10.418.

http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.php?make1=39&model1=1761&op1=%3D&year1...

Tldickerson | May 5, 2020

@BH, I just clicked the link and 1/3 of the way down you can see where I compared the Tesla with the Porsche. Equal times from 0-60 2.4 seconds. 1/4 mile 10.5 Porsche and 10.7 for Tesla.

RedShift | May 5, 2020

@darth

“ otherwise this debate is settled.”

That’s news to almost everyone besides you.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

@TId
Different model result.
2017 Tesla Model S P100D 'Ludicrous+'
0-60 mph 2.3
Quarter mile 10.5

Tldickerson | May 5, 2020

@BH, why compare a 2017 model and not a 2020 model? I would have expected the newer to be faster.

SbMD | May 5, 2020

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020
We have consistently seen Taycan beat Model S in every race from drag to circuit.

Funny how that such an absolute statement is incorrect.

Your ability to focus your attention in the Porsche Distortion Field and avoid facing reality, @darth, makes you the ideal Porsche Experience broker.

Congrats!

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

@Tld those Model S cars are modified. Look at the wheels. Lighter aftermarket wheels. No Stock Tesla will do that.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

Porsche must use inordinately heavy wheels to match the Rolex wristband.
#allergictofacts.

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

Funny how people who track their cars don’t arrive on all season tires on stock rims.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

Funny how easy it was to notice the lightweight wheels. Of course people who don’t race usually won’t notice mods like that. The Taycan is just plain faster in 1/4 mile vs a Model S in their stock configurations. Hate to say I told you so but I did. Let us know when Tesla offers those wheels as a factory option...

Bighorn | May 5, 2020

Something along the lines of a track package?
https://shop.tesla.com/product/model-3-track-package

Funny for all the boasts about incomparably superior German racing engineering, a simple wheel swap is so triggering and makes the difference between a tie and a win.

SamO | May 5, 2020

I've never seen a bigger group of snowflakes then Porsche owners. Your EV is overpriced, low-ranged trash. The good news is that this could be the LAST EV Porsche ever makes if they don't start figuring it out.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

Bighorn except that the Model S won’t win a race vs a Taycan. Not even a Taycan 4S unless in only in that case it’s a drag race.

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

Funny how you don’t seem to understand that the cost vs performance ratio is a non-linear relationship. That’s why there’s a Porsche badge on one car and it’s never associated with mass market buyers. Sorry you invested so much emotional energy into your clearly wrong assumption that Model S was faster during the few thousand previous post where I tried to explain how Model S as is cannot be faster than Taycan. Instead of blind fanboi fanaticism you should have read more closely. If you did you would also have noticed that I said I want Taycan to be a better sports car than anything Tesla has to motivate them into improving Model S. Did I do that because I think Porsche is better than Tesla? No. I did it because I know competition makes everyone better. This is how Elon Musk took it as well. So maybe now we’ll get a real performance car from Tesla sooner rather than later and not just a “nostalgia car + SW updates”.

SbMD | May 5, 2020

You know, @darth, I believe you should stick to Porsches.

But even when you do, you swing and miss here as well!

Please review the last 2000+ posts of why you are wrong, as illustrated in painful detail by the rest of us.

Stick to... something? Maybe faux military "strategery"? Seems more your speed, perhaps?

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

Yes I guess I was wrong when I say Taycan would beat Model S and have better performance... wait what’s this? Another video this time from DragTimes showing Taycan besting a Model S and pulling away from it!

SbMD | May 5, 2020

@darth - cherry pick much? You forget the myriad of sources where your position is shon to be wrong?

You miss, again, the point: the Taycan is a disappointment, no matter how you slice or spin it.

Sorry, pal!

TeslaTap.com | May 5, 2020

Doubt the Taycan will win any races against other race cars either - just too slow. Still, it's rather sad the Taycan 0-60 is still slower than Tesla when it costs twice as much. Off the line in every video I've seen, the Taycan looks like it is left in the dust. Perhaps after 130 mph the Taycan slowly catches up to the Model S. I doubt 1% of Taycan owners will ever go 130+ mph, but if that's your thing, go for it. If you want the fastest car of the two, again the Taycan fails again with 162 mph top speed. The S goes a touch faster at 163 mph.

SbMD | May 5, 2020

Agreed, @TT.

The Taycan burns through electrons too fast to be a worthy track car. Good thing it has all that extra weight, extra useless screens, fancy stitching, et al.

@darth still doesn't get it... maybe another 2000 posts and he might? Dare to dream...!

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

No I get it, most of you are hopeless fanbois. Even Elon Musk doesn’t believe what you do about the car from his company vs Taycan. But don’t worry, you wont get another 2000 post from me. I’m bored explaining it to you. I’m happy to let you delude yourselves in the face of direct video evidence. Meanwhile I’ll just ignore the stupidity post and talk with the rational posters while I wait for Elon to build the Model S update I am looking for. Hopefully before the end of this year otherwise I’ll happily switch to Taycan while waiting for my Cybertruck.

RedShift | May 5, 2020

Way heavier than an F-150, Chevy Silverado 1500, Dodge Ram 1500.. and so on.

Tsk tsk.

SbMD | May 5, 2020

Once again, @darth, let's recognize who you are: a Porsche Experience broker who posts pro-Porsche propaganda on a Tesla Forum.

Fanboi much?

Aerodyne | May 5, 2020

I shoulda known this would be a long thread.

But I can't help but repeat what BH and others said...

Nearly the same performance at half the price!

Darthamerica | May 5, 2020

Aerodyne not quite. You’re thinking Corvette vs 911 in which case you have an argument. This is more like Apples to oranges. Other than both being EVs, they are built for different purposes. Model S in its current form will never be what Taycan is in terms of performance. Taycan in current for will never be what Model S is in terms of range and utility. They are also aimed at different type of drivers. One at performance enthusiasts and the other at sustainability and families. However both can do good enough at what the other does to make the differences trivial for most use cases. That’s why you see Taycan doing 10,000 mile road trips and Model S on the drag strip. So it’s really a poor direct comparison. If a purpose built for performance Model S with plaid powertrain is built, that may a better comparison.

Daisy the Road ... | May 5, 2020

... will never be what the Taycan could have been ...
FTFY

ST70 | May 5, 2020

Taycan going to end up in the can....

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