There is a difference between need and want

There is a difference between need and want

I am writing this in response to some of the people who have posted that due to the price increase on optional extras are seriously reconsidering their order of a Model S, or have decided to cancel their order already.
I understand completely that when someone is spending a huge amount of money on their new pride and joy that they want it to be as perfect as can be.
However, when one says that due to price increases on optional extras they really want they would consider not purchasing a Model S or cancelling an order, sounds like the whinging of a spoilt child.
There are those on this forum I can guess that purchasing the Model S is not really stretching the bank account, but if they are unwilling to pay more for extras that they want than maybe they should ask themselves if all the bells and whistles are what they need.
If you really want a Model S you can still purchase one at the same price as before the increases for extras came into affect. You will still be able to drive a car unlike anything the world has ever seen. Without the extras the MS will still get you from A to B without the need for expensive gasoline.
If purchasing an MS is stretching the budget and putting you in financial difficulty then maybe you should reconsider and wait for the Model X or Gen 3.
Also, if you have to pay more for extras initially are you forgetting the money you will save over the life of the MS?
1. No more paying for gasoline
2. Lower maintenance costs
3. Free charging with the supercharger network
Before you complain about paying more for extras that you may not necessarily need please consider the following...
1. Be thankful that you are fortunate enough to even consider purchasing a car that costs around $80,000, let alone a Model S. I understand that there are many people out there that have worked hard for their money, however there are probably thousands of people (like myself) that would love to own a Model S but probably never will (I hope to own a Gen 3).
2. Be thankful that you live in the United States and that you already have access to the Model S, and in a couple of years be able to drive around your entire country for FREE, using the superchargers.
3. At a guess the Model S (and every other Tesla model for that matter) will be more expensive in every other country around the world.
I live in Australia, and when the Model S finally arrives on our shores (still no word on when that is yet) the base model 85 will probably be around $120,000 AUD.
4. Also, every day around the world millions of people park successfully, without the "need" for parking sensors!

If you really "want" a Model S, buy one without complaining. If Tesla really "needs" to increase prices on extras to be successful in order for me, and hopefully millions of other folk around the world to drive the Gen 3 and make the transition to electric mobility, then so be it!

ChasF | August 4, 2013


2050project | August 4, 2013


GeirT | August 4, 2013


Spot on!

After all this is a luxury sport-sedan, the top of the line for TM. It is an expensive car! "Fact of the matter is" that TM needs to make a lot of money. The margins to provide that is the luxury sports sedan segment. That is step 2 in TM's building of a profitable and heathy car company. Step 3 is the MX - another luxury and high priced segment of the cqr market - with step 4 to follow with a high volume speculated Gen. III.

Do I like to pay a lot? Of course not. Emotionally I want everything for free or at least at a bargain. But reality bites and the world is not like that. I want the MS, I pay what TM charge. I don't like what they charge, I hold back. However demand for MS surpasses supply so why should MS "give"?

Idealism may have caught the better of us, but the reality is that Elon and the rest of the TM team owe it to the owners being it the shareholders (and yes, I happen to be one) to give a product offering with considerations for a short, medium and long term optimisation of the investments including profits, for the healthy development of a sustainable car business.

At the end of the day, pricing will find its balance in supply and demand - costs to produced considered of course. And my bet is that with the success of the MS, there will be a lot of good EV alternatives to arrive soon and the price pressure/improved product offering will become very real.

mclary | August 4, 2013


skymaster | August 4, 2013

+1 Awesome post!!!

bonaire | August 4, 2013

The fine line of want and need is a bit blurry. People making $150K want a Tesla and whine about price increases but so do people making $500K. Those who got rich did so by saving money and not dumping it along the way. The super-rich may say "whatever the cost - I'll pay it." Those are very few in terms of the general population.

The price increase makes sense. For now. But it will be in the press this coming week during the run-up to earnings and how they spin it, who knows.

The kWh per mile of a Tesla, including vampire losses, is higher than other EVs. So, "eco-concious" folks need to know that. We all know the draw to the MS is the acceleration. So, they're buying a "carnival ride" that also includes a lot of good technology. They want the thrill. They really aren't green. If you want to be green, spend less, get a lesser car and "be more green". But the MS causes a "lather of desire" among those who want it. Nobody needs it. Seriously, who "needs" any new car at all? Buying a used EV already produced is far greener than making a new one and paying full-boat retail.

Interesting idea about want/need. I just think the entire spectrum of people buying the MS "want" it.

DTsea | August 4, 2013


yesterday i had a P85 loaner. too much power for me, reconfirmed my choice of a 60 in the first place. some of the complainers maybe or ordering a P85? could save dough for options with step down to 85 or 60.

TM added new options. so fully loaded costs more. so what? personally i dont want parking sensors and dont need winter package.... so no issue. but when i bought my MS those werent even available!

nonchalance | August 4, 2013

There's a really dangerous precedent that, quite frankly, disturbs me as a potential future owner (waiting for current lease to end). This happened earlier this year as well.

I think we are all adults here, and can accept bad news like price increases. That's business, and like the thread here suggests you either live with it or go elsewhere. But I would hope Tesla is better than that. Tesla could transcend the dealer tactics that we all bemoan, and quite frankly the recent price increases are straight out of the dealer playbook.

Those who actually have MS or Roadster can't appreciate the feeling until they try to get the next one. This isn't an issue of entitlement (no one is asking for a free car or a free upgrade) but rather one of respect to the customer. And I really hope that Blankenship and Musk help those who already signed the purchase agreement. That would be a class act

sgarapat | August 4, 2013

I agree with OP, what you said is true. But let me tell you the consumer mindset. If you are buying a 80K+ vehicle leather is taken as standard. Also if somebody is paying 80K+ they need the interior to be like a luxury sedan not like toyota corolla. Now people could say this is an EV, revolutionary vehicle etc but I think the way Tesla should be bringing EV revolution is competing with ICE vehicle in all aspects. What I mean is Tesla should offer all the features (leather, premium sound) that an equivalent priced ICE offers and it's performance and infotainment system should convince people to get this car. In a way showing an electric car is much better than an ICE in every way. But I think the interior of tesla especially injection molded plastic parts look very cheap I seriously would say they are not an luxury sedan standard. They are a great company and I love them but I think there should be some criticism too, may be this will help to step their game.

I do not remember the previous leather option (2500$?) but now I think Tesla went a little too much like 1500 for the seats, 500 for the dash and 2500 for extended leather trim . So a non performance model buyer is paying 4500$ for what he was getting for 2500$. If the price increase would have made 3250$ (25% rise) then nobody would have complained much but 80% increase in just leather and trim , I should say tesla went a little too much. For the performance buyers it is paying 5500$ which they used to get as standard and air suspension is another 2K+ etc. the increased prices should have been not too agressive. Also the sound system increase is a little too much if they have not redesigned it. I know people will come and defend Tesla after this post as I did in many previous posts. But I feel Tesla should be competing with ICE cars providing the same bells and whistles of an equivalently priced ICE car but it should use its revolutionary infotainment and power train performance are the pluses over ICE but not the approach where the consumer pays a fair money on it and has to compromise on interior and justifying himself saying I compromised for performance and legendary UI for interior luxury.

negarholger | August 4, 2013

Lack of respect for the customer ?
Number one complaint has been parking sensors. Now available for $500.
Compare that to e.g. $1500 for the spoiler - if parking sensor were priced like the spoiler then the price should be $3500... that I call that trying to please customers.

JPPTM | August 4, 2013

Agree with OP...right on target.

Last time I checked, the USA is a free market economy (...well, mostly). There were no guarantees about future pricing, options, etc on the TM site. Yes, some folks likely have a decision to make about what is or is not important when building their Model S. I bought mine knowing that it did not have parking sensors (something I really wanted), and also was one of the folks who got trapped in the fog light conundrum (listed on the specs, part of my build list, but dropped in forward production without any $$ compensation). Now I will see how (and for how many $$) I can get parking sensors retrofit, and what might be done with the fog light issue. At the end of the day, people, we are talking about a car, a discretionary purchase (and not a trivial inexpensive one at that). If you do not like the price, features, creature comforts offered, just take your business elsewhere. Some of us actually believe that the Model is is a bargain compared to what is on the market now.

FWIW, I have a background in engineering and physics, and am the unofficial CIO/CTO of my practice. The question I get asked all the time is: 'What is the best______ that I should buy?", with the blank usually filled in with smartphone, computer and the like. My stock answer is: "Next year's model'. Whatever you buy today will be obsoleted in a month or 2, twice as fast and good in 6 months, at half the cost. Don't get mad, just freeze the technology and appreciate what you have and what it does.

AmpedRealtor | August 4, 2013

Last time I checked, JPPTM has copied/pasted the same text into at least three threads and counting...

rch1708 | August 4, 2013

To my midnd what has happened w.r.t. to pricing is much simpler than some people are making out. Tesla has simply increased the PRICE of the VAlUE that they are delivering. Ie, for a particular configuration (value) it seems that in general the price has increased.

Therefore there are two choices: 1) the buyer can choose to receive the same value, which means paying an increased price or 2) the buyer can choose to pay the same price by dropping options, ie by decreasing value. It's a choice.

One can ask whether increasing the price of the value that Tesla delivers is a good move or not. Shareholders might think that it is. People at the fringe of buying a Tesla might think that it is not. It remains to be seen whether this price increase is a good move or not. If Tesla's revenues increase as a result, then irrespective of what anyone says here, it will have been a good move. If they decrease, the converse will be true.

Emotionally, being asked to pay more to buy something of the same value is painful and upsetting. And we're seeing this across the forum right now. But what's at play here is economics, supply and demand. If Tesla can increase the price without reducing demand then the value that they were delivering was under priced.

Frankly, if I were a current buyer, I'd be pretty upset. But then I guess I'd just get on with it, thereby proving Tesla right.

JaneW | August 4, 2013

What's a parking sensor? ;)

negarholger | August 4, 2013

A powerful ultrasonic device to disintegrate obstacles while parking.

JPPTM | August 4, 2013

Amped...yes, pasted in multiple appropriate locations with some edits as appropriate...and you also repeat your thoughts and ideas on multiple posts as appropriate.....

AmpedRealtor | August 4, 2013

@ JPPTM, I should have ended my post with a smiley - I was just trying to make you laugh :)

Bubba2000 | August 4, 2013

I just got my 85P/Pano loaded. Did I really need it? Nope. Got a Porsche and the wife got another ICE. However, the 85P is a really nice car to drive. I would like a few bells and whistles, but I am not going to run to Tesla to trade for one with park assist. Anyway, if a few years, Tesla will have all kinds of features like smart cruise control, lane sensors and even self driving... plus 500 mile range. Probably weight 500-1000 lbs less. Meanwhile, once I start driving I forget all the nit-picky stuff and just enjoy today.

As an investor, I would like to see Tesla achieve economies of scale so their margins increase with volume and automation. If anything, Tesla should be adding features with minimal cost to the consumer with all inclusive package. However, I understand the situation. Tesla needs to invest $500M-$1B to expand the capacity of Model S+X. They need volumes in the 100,000 to 500,000 range. The Model S is currently a premium limited production hi end auto and it costs to manufacture. Got to pay.

Just glad I got mine for a "bargain basement price"... relatively speaking!

tes-s | August 4, 2013

Will raising the price of a new MS increase the value of a used MS?

Brian H | August 5, 2013

Your pasting is a pain. It's been read, and comments made on the original. Any further simply disconnects and fragments relevant responses.

And your thoughts are NOT that important.

Colasec | August 5, 2013

+1 Thanks scatjam. The best things about a Model S - its beauty, instant acceleration, tech, and ZEV nature - cost just the same as before.

JPPTM | August 6, 2013

Brian H--you are a tough critic, even if you are superb at grammar and spelling.....

Skotty | August 6, 2013

It's all want. It's just that some people want the options to be reasonably priced.

I like that they de-contented the P85. It makes the P85 a real choice for people who don't want to max out the price. But the option price increases are somewhat dramatic, and I, like many, am not happy about it. It pushes the average Model S further away from it's original $50K price target, which it has already previously moved very far away from.

Yeah, you could just drop some options. With the updated prices, it seems ridiculous to spend the money on some of them if you are trying to control costs. The problem is, it seems equally ridiculous to forgo an option you really want when you are already paying upwards of $80K+ for. Either way, it's ridiculous. Kind of a no-win scenario.

On the plus side, if they make more on the S due to the pricing changes, it might lead to an earlier release of the Gen 3 car. That's the car a lot of us really want. But at the pace things are going, it's still many years away. I don't really expect to see even a prototype of the Gen 3 until 2017, with production not until 2018 (international Model S 2013/2014, US Model X 2014/2015, international Model X 2016, Gen 3 prototype 2017, US Gen 3 2018).

SUN 2 DRV | August 6, 2013


I appreciate your comments, certainly much more than the pedantic grammar posts that I see cropping up much more often than your cut/paste ones.

Brian H | August 7, 2013

Repeated posts are never worth reading. Once is enough. If you're desperate for an audience, come up with new material.