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Trip report: Skiing - Broomfield, Colorado to Winter Park, Colorado

Trip report: Skiing - Broomfield, Colorado to Winter Park, Colorado

Trip report. Broomfield, CO to Winter Park ski area. 80 miles each way but over the continental divide. 2 full size men with ski gear. Average temp was probably 15F. 5600 feet MSL to to 9,100 feet . Highest elevation reached was 11,300 (and -2F). Started trip with 300 miles range. Arrived at Winter Park with 163 miles remaining. Regen on the return trip was limited due to temps, but I still arrived back home with 84 miles remaining. Model 3 AWD with Michelin X-Ice snow tires does great in the mountains. Love being able to accelerate uphill and control descents without breaking. Only issue was on the return I had to use pretty much constant high defrost to keep the side windows from fogging up.

GregCO | December 29, 2018

Using the Model 3 for Ski Trips in the Rockies

howard | December 29, 2018

Thanks for the report. Heading to Steamboat in a few weeks. Probably top off in Silverthorne on the way and see how the return looks. There is a supercharger scheduled for Steamboat but I don't think it is in yet.

mrburke | December 29, 2018

So - How was the skiing ?

GregCO | December 29, 2018

Awesome skiing for December. Packed powder with fresh powder in the trees at MJ. @Howard. A Supercharger at The Boat would be awesome. I think there is a Chargepoint in the garage at the Sheraton, but unsure if its just for guests. Went to Copper last week and got 220mph charge at the Silverthorne Supercharger (at 6am). Fills up in the afternoon though. So, best to top off in the morning. Just a follow up. I wouldn't count on the Idaho Springs Chargepoint. It says it a 2 stall but where it is only 1 car can really use it, and there was already another Model 3 there when I tried.

howard | December 29, 2018

Thanks for the heads up. I usually leave early. We have two good friends with Condos in the Boat. 110 is available. Been considering to offer to put 220 in just so I can stay longer with more fun. We have Airstreamed at both RV parks so that is another option if really needed.

jwins | December 29, 2018

Thanks, @GregCO, for the trip report! Heading to Vail soon for five days, but will probably take our non-Tesla for a bunch of reasons. If it was just a day trip though, I'd definitely take the 3. Thanks, too, for the details on your range hits. That fits closely with my unscientific presumption that cold weather + highway speeds use about 1.5 rated miles for every actual mile one drives. I think the mountain descents mitigate the climbs pretty evenly. That was my experience in October driving from Boulder to Durango and back. For that trip, with no heater or A/C, I averaged 225 Wh/mi, with much of the drive at 65+mph.

Pierogi | December 30, 2018

Good write up. My wife, 60 lb chocolate lab, and I went from Boulder to Beaver Creek for 4 nights to ski and watch the Birds of Prey Races. Loaded the car with 2 pairs of ski boots, 2 pairs of skis / poles, and all our gear and clothing with the back seats down and a dog bed for the dog. Didn’t even use the frunk.

The Model 3 is our only car but it outperformed our previous Audi Allroad on I-70 and the snow. We used the destination charging at our hotel but the car said it would have made it to Beaver Creek and back to Boulder without charging. We have 3 more extended ski trips with the wife and dog planned to Breck, Beaver Creek, and Telluride this winter in our Model 3 and zero concerns in my mind about the car, storage space, charging, or cold weather.

CST | December 30, 2018

No scratches or dents from the parking lot? I won't take mine because people are so clumsy with ski equipment.

howard | December 30, 2018

We are back in AZ for a few weeks. This is our second round trip in my wife’s Q3 and I can’t believe how many Model 3s we see on the highways. Quite remarkable to me. While my wife is afraid something will happen to “my car” if she is driving it on an extended basis I am definitely bringing the 3 down next time. Only thing in the back of my mind seeing all the 3s on the road is how busy the super charger stations are going to be in the future. Mentioned in another thread there is going to be a need for queuing.

Beaver Creek and back is really great.

landoncube | December 30, 2018

@Pierogi Teslas are welcome to come skiing in Telluride. Ours lives nearby in Montrose. Superchargers are planned for Montrose and Telluride, but no construction, yet. Silverthorne, Glenwood, and Grand Junction make the trip a breeze. We travel to Denver several times a month and find our Performance 3 is the best road car and a highly capable winter machine. Navigate on Autopilot is Learning I-70s curves with every drive and update!
You’ll find many chargers in Tride, some destination chargers at hotels, etc.

jimglas | December 30, 2018

Anybody have a ski rack for their 3?

Pierogi | December 30, 2018

@landoncube thank you! We are at Gateway Canyons resort on a road trip and love the Model 3 out here and with the navigate on Autopilot - it’s even more enjoyable. They have 2 destination chargers here at Gateway Canyons resort (and the 44the Roadster built for rent) and it’s fun taking my Model 3 on Scenic By Way CO 141. The scenery is amazing out here. We will be in Telluride in March and May (Dunton Hot Springs Resort in May actually and they have 2 Tesla destination chargers).

To the question about dings to the car in the ski parking lot I’m nervous about my first time parking at A Basin but my last car never got dinged in a ski parking lot over 13 years so I’ll have to just not think about it.

Pierogi | December 30, 2018

@jimglas I have 178s and keep them inside with the seats folded down. No ski rack here.

kcheng | December 30, 2018

@Pierogi, when you say your Model 3 outperformed your Allroad in the snow, were you using snow tires, or just the all-seasons?

howard | December 30, 2018

I feel the traction control on the Tesla AWD is better than our past Audi Quattros, including my wife’s current 2016 Q3, in any condition. I run 18” Michelin X-Ice Xi3. The only real issue is ground clearance.

Pierogi | December 30, 2018

@kcheng - I have not put my snow tires on our Model 3 yet. So I’m comparing my Model 3 with all season tires versus the Audi Allroad with all season tires in the mountains of Colorado. The Model 3 has more power and feels more stable - as in the battery weight of the Tesla is spread out evenly over all 4 tires where the Audi has all the engine weight in the front. The Model 3 does not have the clearance of my Allroad but that was known prior to purchase.

I’m excited to get the snow tires put on my Model 3 very soon to see what it’s limits are. But I can tell you last week on I-70 by Glenwood Springs the road was snow packed and I had the standard 18” Michelin tires on and made it through with minor slippage when many others were off the road.

Kirbster | December 30, 2018

I’d agree on the comments of the model 3 versus an allroad/A4. The extra weight of the model 3 definitely helps with traction. Even with snows on my A4 the lower weight would cause it to slip on smaller amounts of snow/slush even with snows on it. On Snow pack it was great. So far I haven’t had that experience with the 3
I’ve taken my model 3 from DTC to Breck twice and today went over the pass to Keystone. I can average around 285w/m round trip but going up the hill is definitely more taxing.
Is there a way to report supercharger issues to Tesla? Both 4a and 4b weren’t working on Friday.

NKYTA | December 30, 2018

@Greg, I’m sure you know, but make sure Recirc in AirCon is off, for the fogging issue.

Glad to hear the 3 performed admirably.
We got Dual Motor in my wifes 3 for Tahoe trips - my “ancient 2012 S with 21s” is not a good candidate in the winter.

kcheng | December 30, 2018

@Pierogi, and everyone else who commented. My brother, an Audi driver has had numerous A4, A3, A6, Allroads, TT, Q5 and a Q7! I've been trying to convince him to get an AWD Model 3 for his drives from LA to his house in Mammoth, and he doesn't like to put on snows, but would rather carry chains for his forays up to the mountains, so hearing your experiences vs Audi AWD vehicles is useful when I talk to my brother. Like you, Ive been pleasantly surprised at how well the Model 3 AWD, OEM tires, drove in light snow. Sure-footed, well-balanced.

Pierogi | December 31, 2018

@Kirbster I’m not sure if it’s the same supercharger stations but 2 were not working in Silverthorne when I went by there on 12/21. Someone had post it notes on the superchargers that were not working. I’m surprised they are not fixed yet due to increased holiday traffic. Not sure who or how to contact to repair. Maybe when Tesla does the repair they can change the signs few signs from “15’mimute general parking” to “EV Charging Only” since these chargers are so popular and ICE cars love to park in the Tesla spaces over the nearby 100s of other empty parking spaces.

jimglas | December 31, 2018

contact CustomerSupport@tesla.com for SC issues

howard | December 31, 2018

@kcheng, I understand living in LA and not wanting to put winter tires on but I also can't imagine putting chains on my car either. Only did it once and it was a mess on and off as well as dangerous. If I was going up to Mammoth regularly I would put them on during ski season.

kcheng | December 31, 2018

@howard, thanks. The chains are a requirement regardless of whether you have snows or not. If it's a blizzard out there, they'll have a stop where everyone has to put on their chains, snow tires or not. I can't tell my bro what to do, he's older than me!

CST | December 31, 2018

Wow, in California, all wheel drive & winter tires covers nearly every situation... They shut down the highway it it gets worse.

SO | December 31, 2018

@kcheng - “I can't tell my bro what to do, he's older than me!”

Remember....older. Not necessarily wiser.

howard | December 31, 2018

If I am AWD with winter tires on, no chains required in the mountains of CO. If I knew they had to be put on I would stay put. I am the oldest so I understand how stupidly stubborn I can be especially if my younger bro was telling me anything.

Kirbster | January 2, 2019

@Pierogi there were yellow post it notes with “dead” written on the two pedestals that weren’t working.

Pierogi | January 2, 2019

@Kirbster - yes those post it notes were there on 12/21 and again today when I was there on 1/2 at the Silverthorne chargers. I emailed the Tesla Support on 12/31 and they relied saying they are on it.

Man those Silverthorne chargers are busy!!

Jiver | January 2, 2019

I was at the Silverthorne chargers on 12/08 and two were not working. Looks like they have been out for nearly a month now.

I am planning a weekend Colorado Springs to Winter Park and I am concerned about not making it back to Park Meadows on the return. According to Google its 132 miles from Colorado Springs to Winter Park and then 80 miles back to Park Meadows. That's 212 miles. Throw in 20 degree weather and the climb up to Berthoud Pass (11,307 feet) plus incidental driving and overnight loss and it could be close. There will be some regen but I'm not sure that it will be enough. The Broomfield to Winter Park trip is about 80 miles and the OP used 137 miles of range to get there. That's 70% more. On the way back he got about the stated range. If I used 132 + 70% that's 224 to get there. I likely do not make it back to Park Meadows when you consider overnight loss and incidental driving.

Anyone use the charger at Devil's Thumb Ranch or the J1772 in the public garage in Winter Park? I'm guessing I'd need about 60 miles charging in Winter Park to make it work.

One option might be to charge to 100% at Park Meadows on the way up but that would take at least 30 minutes (which I guess is less than the amount of time it would take at a J1772 to get 60 miles).

I really need that Idaho Springs supercharger to come on line.

Thoughts or ideas anyone?

landoncube | January 2, 2019

@jiver grab some juice at the airport road Denver supercharger?

jwins | January 2, 2019

@jiver You should get a significant amount of range back on the return trip, since it’s mostly downhill. Yes, there’s Berthoud Pass to deal with, but even on the outbound leg, you’ll get miles back in the drive from the pass down to WP. Charging at Devil’s Thumb or WP is a good idea, but only add as much as you think you’ll need; you’ll have a better idea of that once you’ve done the outbound leg. And don’t bother charging to 100% at PM — 80% should be enough. Let us know how this turns out!

Jiver | January 28, 2019

I put this trip off for a couple weeks due to weather and other engagements. I did make it to Winter Park over the weekend. The drive up was a bit longer than normal due to accidents on I-25 and the 470/I70 interchange. I found that my phone navigation (I use Sygic) had much better traffic and routing information than the Tesla navigation. Sygic knew I25 was shut down and routed me off it whilst Telsa did not. Sygic also got me off of 470 before the backup started. Going down Floyd Hill, Tesla's navigation picked a better route. Between the two of them I think I found the most efficient way up the hill

Enough of that. Here are some numbers from the trip. I have the LR AWD with Aero covers on. I drive with percent remaining as opposed to miles because it makes more sense to me. I keep climate at 68 degrees, sometimes dropping to 66 degrees. My seat heater is on low and my wife's is on high (how anyone can sit on that seat on high for that long I do not know).

I started at 89% charged. From Colorado Springs to Winter Park I traveled 133 miles on 54% charge (292 Wh/Mi). Temps were around 20F. I traveled as fast as I could safely go which wasn't fast for large portions of the trip and around 70mph where I could going up the hill. Travel over Berthoud was on snow packed roads. I did not do anything to actively try to conserve energy.

I was not able to opportunity charge at 120v where I was staying. Overnight I lost about 8% of range (leaving me at 26%). The car lost another 5% during my ski day. By the time I got back to where I was staying I was down to 13% (traveled about 19 miles, dropping from 26% to 13%). I then went off to Devil's Thumb Ranch and charged at the Tesla destination charger whilst enjoying dinner. I only saw one Tesla charger even though they list two and have two parking spots. Fortunately for me the one I saw was not in use. I was up to 40% by the time I left.

By the next morning I had lost another 6% but managed to opportunity charge at 120v back to 40% before leaving. I traveled 87 miles in 29F to 40F degree weather on 19% charge to the Park Meadows Supercharger (171 Wh/Mi). Speeds were around 70 mph for half of this and as fast as traffic and conditions would allow for the other half. I charged and did some shopping and then it took another 22% to get back home (thus the stop at Park Meadows was necessary).

I spent no time charging when I wasn't doing something else which is to say that none of the charging added any extra time to my trip -- I would have been stopped anyway (even at Park Meadows).

My takeaway, though, is that I am not sure if I will take the M3 back up this next weekend. While getting there is not an issue, I would like to have at least a 30% charge before heading back. Without being able to count on 120v charging overnight this becomes questionable. While there are a couple L2 chargers in Winter Park there is no guarantee that they will not be in use (a plug-in Prius had the only L2 charger taken at Devil's Thumb Ranch, for instance). If the Supercharger in Idaho Springs gets built then I would charge up there on my way up the hill and a winter weekend would not be an issue.

I would do a day trip to Winter Park, however. Assuming I started at 100% and got the same numbers I'd do 54 to get up, 6 while I was there, and 19 to get back to Park Meadows. That's about 79% -- which leaves almost enough to get back to Colorado Springs.

Pierogi | January 28, 2019

@Jiver thanks for the report. We took our M3 up to Breckenridge Friday - Sunday and used the Tesla destination charging at the hotel. It was a great weekend of skiing, minus the I-70 traffic - and zero transportation costs. It's 90 miles from Breck to Boulder and it was an average of 30 degrees outside...only used 65 miles of range to get home coming down the mountain. The car is truly fun to drive in the Rocky Mountains and we have a ton of trips coming up this year around the state where we plan on relying on the Tesla destination charging (Telluride, Snowmass, Dolores, Telluride again...).

baileymgmt | December 29, 2019

2019 M3-AWD Arvada to Winter Park Trip Report:
Cargo: 2 Adults and 2 Dogs
Average Temp of round trip 25f
-Car showed 295mi range when leaving
-Top of Berthoud pass 195mi remaining
-Arrived at AirBNB in Fraser with 197mi remaining
-Car was parked in heated garage overnight
-Played 3 hours of Car-aoke that night
-Car Showed 180mi remaining when leaving Fraser to return to Arvada
-Top of Berthoud pass 142mi remaining (turned regen to low coming down due to snow packed roads)
-Arrived back in Arvada with 110mi remaining

ksrehman | December 29, 2019

@jimglas I use the Seasucker ski rack which sticks to the glass roof with special pumped suction cups. Holds 3 pairs of skis easily, 4 would fit tight.

I like having a rack when I need it but a clean roof line when not skiing. It stays stuck to the roof at low 80 mph highway speeds - haven't tested faster :)

Downsides are the rack locks with a key and the lock can freeze in really cold and icy conditions. Also there is nothing to stop a thief from stealing the whole rack by peeling off the suction cups but IMO most people don't know that it's easy to remove and there is not much crime at my local ski areas in WA state.

bp | December 29, 2019

Regarding racks for skiing, I’m using a Yakima Rocketbox 11. It’s quick to install/remove (for car washes or extended dry spells), holds multiple boards/skis, and seems to have negligible impact on range.

ksrehman | December 29, 2019

I checked their website and Seasucker also have a new design ski rack which holds 2 pairs of skis plus poles or 2 snowboards without the locks that can freeze. They still sell the one I have too.

ksrehman | December 29, 2019

@bp are you using it on the Tesla roof rack?

FISHEV | December 29, 2019

"You should get a significant amount of range back on the return trip"

You don't really get range back so much as use very little on the down mountain return trips. Hood is 65 miles each way and pretty much mimics @GregCO's numbers for his 80 each way run.

ksrehman | December 29, 2019

Back on topic Tesla AWD plus true winter tires blows away mechanical AWD like Audi for stability and traction in gnarly conditions.

I see some ski areas adding Tesla destination chargers, which is also a welcome upgrade.

FISHEV | December 29, 2019

"I see some ski areas adding Tesla destination chargers, which is also a welcome upgrade."

Since so many lease Federal land, should be a requirement that resorts leasing public land put in 25% EV parking spots with 20kW/CCS units. Put banks of EV parking up front and 2 hour charge limit so people can come down and move their cars so others can charge.

bp | December 29, 2019

@ksrehman yes.

FISHEV | December 29, 2019

"Back on topic Tesla AWD plus true winter tires blows away mechanical AWD like Audi for stability and traction in gnarly conditions."

Topic was mostly Tesla range on ski trip.

As for Tesla AWD being better than others in snow/ice with same tires, no evidence of that in any tests so far. Subaru and Audi top the best AWD vehicles year after year.

Tires are key. My 2010 Prius with Xice's could beat Subaru's with regular tires on the icy Hood access roads.

On this topic, the Xices are good mileage tires. I saw no drop off in mpg or mpkWh in Prius, Subaru or Model 3 going from stock tires to Xices.

Wormtown Kris | December 29, 2019

@FISHY: "Since so many lease Federal land, should be a requirement that resorts leasing public land put in 25% EV parking spots with 20kW/CCS units. Put banks of EV parking up front and 2 hour charge limit so people can come down and move their cars so others can charge."

Your handlers would love that, wouldn't they? Tesla continues to pour money into increasing the infrastructure so that Tesla owners have a convenient travel and charging experience. Meanwhile your bosses do zero. "Why pay for any charging infrastructure if we can get the government to build chargers for us?"

ksrehman | December 29, 2019

@FISHEV Audi A4 Quattro (mechanical) versus Tesla Dual Motor AWD

https://youtu.be/1n_iyYqm2rQ

FISHEV | December 29, 2019

"Tesla continues to pour money into increasing the infrastructure so that Tesla owners have a convenient travel and charging experience."

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/long-lines-supercharger-stations-c...

To this story's point, high usage areas like the ski resorts which are going to stretch EV's to limit need to be expanded and Tesla needs to provide owners with CCS adapters so they have more charging options.

jallred | December 29, 2019

Since so many lease Federal land, should be a requirement that resorts leasing public land put in 25% EV parking spots with 20kW/CCS units. -fish

You can make it a requirement, but someone will have to pay for it. And it won’t be the resorts. Basically you will irritate a bunch of people with higher priced lift tickets and empty parking spots that they can’t park in. And if you want tax payers to fund it then it definitely shouldn’t be at a ski resort.

Wormtown Kris | December 29, 2019

@FISHY: "To this story's point, high usage areas like the ski resorts which are going to stretch EV's to limit need to be expanded and Tesla needs to provide owners with CCS adapters so they have more charging options."

An absurd and ridiculous claim. Tesla and Tesla alone is supplying tens of thousands of fast charging outlets for their customers. (Technically VW is putting money into the EA network, but only because they are being forced to by the courts). No other manufacturer is doing anything for their customers.

Extrapolating a few busy Superchargers on Thanksgiving and Christmas weekends to the entire year is silly. Saying that now Tesla needs to provide owners with an adaptor so that they can use slower and very overpriced chargers is beyond silly. (FISHY, don't forget, you're cover story is that you are supposed to be a concerned "Model 3 owner". Don't make your trolling so obvious!)

If EA wants some customers, THEY can offer compatibility. Tesla doesn't need CCS. If you want one so bad, create your own third party adaptor. You keep saying it's an $80 million market. So produce it yourself, it's such an obvious money maker!