Troll Baiting 101

Troll Baiting 101

I saw this somewhere else,, but it is VERY fitting for this forum also.

important part of the Trolling/FUD strategy is to say something so preposterous and so annoying that you have to respond

then when you respond the social media algorithms spread their propaganda, helping them plant seeds of doubt and confusion in the minds of others

don’t fall for it

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

Everyone knows that. Did you know Pinocchio was a bad motivational speaker?

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | April 6, 2020

"AWD Tesla Model 3 unable to drive uphill during winter" was a good recent example.

yudansha™ | April 6, 2020

Do you work for Tesla? You said you work 60 hours each week but spend half a day each day here.

WW_spb | April 6, 2020

We all know those people. MaBuck, FishEV,Maxxer, Serrento.

WW_spb | April 6, 2020

Tanya,don't stress we all going to be okey!

Mike83 | April 6, 2020

Yep. The con artists are even in government New posters or ids are fairly easy to spot and owners should just flag them away with the constant misinformation even if it is a bot troll.

Earl and Nagin ... | April 6, 2020

Unfortunately, the Troll team really is making this forum an unpleasant place. I think that it is essential to start flagging all of their comments, even if they have a shred of decency in them.
A lot of good folks have pretty much quit which is sad since many have a lot to contribute.
If we don't start using the tools we are given to self-police it, this forum is pretty much dead.
We all know who they are.
Let the majority of good overcome the few bad.

Mike83 | April 6, 2020

Earl and Nagin +100

Like Neighborhood Watch we need Forum Watch to flag the crooks away.

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

@E&N If you can make that actually happen that would be good. We have been through several rinse and repeats of this and flag wars simply do not work unless everyone complies and not everyone does.

When flag wars happen trolls simply cut and paste and start the same threads over and over again and step up that activity to flood the first page with their flatulence. Attack the trolls head on without solicitation for further engagement is the method that I think works best, currently.

WW_spb | April 6, 2020

I always flag everything Fish and Maxxer post. Every thing! No matter what. They have showed million times who they are.

lbowroom | April 6, 2020

I wish I know Tesla's take on this....

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

My take is that they somehow get useful data from this or there is some bad actors working inside Tesla.

vmulla | April 6, 2020

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020
My take is that they somehow get useful data from this or there is some bad actors working inside Tesla.

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

Let's have the "useful data" discussion.

Considering many Tesla loyalists get worked up with anger and the majority of forum content is flatulence that would turn most newbies off of participating and there are other channels to submit wants etc. What is "useful" about this that cannot be had through other channels?

yudansha™ | April 6, 2020

@M8B Utter nonsense

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

Interesting, no discussion, no socratic dialog, just an attack.

yudansha™ | April 6, 2020

Who attacked you?

andy.connor.e | April 6, 2020

what is an attack. are we all babies?

yudansha™ | April 6, 2020

I better apologize to the randy old sod before he start crying wolf.

fazman | April 6, 2020

@all how are people able to get accounts if they are not current owners? I thought that was part of the requirement to be able to post on this site... no???

andy.connor.e | April 6, 2020

Anyone can make an account. Anyone can post comments. Verified owners can post threads.

The latter is not 100% true though.

fazman | April 6, 2020

It would be nice if current owner accounts had some kind of distinction mark so you know it is from a real owner.

andy.connor.e | April 6, 2020

We've been mentioning that for a long time. And when you joined the forums. And dont allow username changes.

Joshan | April 6, 2020

that would be amazing @fazman

Earl and Nagin ... | April 6, 2020

I understand it has been tried before. I, personally wasn't too sure back then since it was mostly haters chiming in. The haters were helpful because, if the worst they could do was to tell a lie, we knew the truth was on the right track. Today, there is so much real evidence within Tesla that haters really have no place to stand. I saw a Bloomberg EV hit piece on TV yesterday that only groused about the shortcomings of the other manufacturers because little they 'were concerned about' applies to Tesla.
Today's troll club is a bunch of n'er-do-wells determined to make the forum an annoying place and hence to make it useless. Nobody wants to go into a bar where people are fighting. These are just goons going in and starting trouble. They have no other cause.
I'm afraid that unless those few who are still following this forum start flagging all of their nonsense, we might as well quit tuning in.

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

@E&N Like I said they create a bunch of new sock accounts and flood the front page when they get flagged away, that was the result before and I am seeing more socks and new trolls showing up weekly even without the flagging.

When I had discussions with Tesla about this they told me they were going to "adjust" the flagging system and that they were going to monitor closely which posts were being flagged for reasons that they did not feel violated the rules. In other words they were making a "threat" about indiscriminate flagging saying that could get me in trouble.

When they "booted" me they did so out of complaints from users not my content. However they went into double speak when I told them I flagged lies and liars and they said their is nothing they will do about lies and liars because they do not want to be fact checkers. So they threatened to bust people for "indiscriminate" flagging yet they do not check content, that did not square up at all. I called them out on that and since then they dropped the ball on all the promises of "fixing" this forum.

I have been trying to work this issue for long time from multiple angles and have struck out many times. Does that explanation help you understand things better?

andy.connor.e | April 6, 2020

Tesla needs to rescan their system for those who can post threads to make sure they actually own a Tesla product.

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

@andy.c Why say that here? It just comes across as another complaint about Tesla when you make posts like that.

I recommend you contact Tesla using your account, if you have one, and work the issue with them directly.

SamO | April 6, 2020

Trolls have zero substance to point to in favor of a BETTER product to adopt.

Chevy Bolt? lol

iPace, Kona, e-Tron?

Please . . .

Do you want to drive 500-1500 miles per day with a network of fast chargers everywhere?

Buy a Tesla.

*applies to US.

andy.connor.e | April 6, 2020

complaining comshlaining. they should definitely do that.

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

Sigh the most worthless posts are: What Tesla needs to do...”

yudansha™ | April 6, 2020

Let’s place an ankle bracelet on every Tesla owner. /s

fazman | April 6, 2020

@SamO The only reason i tipped my toes into the EV space was because of the supercharger network by tesla and the only reason i got my model 3 was if it came with a lifetime FUSC... otherwise it was too much of a gamble this early on.

If the electric charging infrastructure grows, I can see more EV adoption to happen. But it doesn’t make sense to double stack batteries to get long range at the weight impact. Also the motors are only efficient at low speeds (We need a real multi gear transmission to get better efficiency).

Just like pool pumps, a variable speed setup will always beat a single speed pump at cost per day... the same will happen with variable ratio transmissions for eco and maybe locking in a fixed ratio 1 speed for performance. By then we won’t need the weight hit of a 100 kw pack... maybe even a 50 kw or 25 kw pack would do since we have better/efficient gearing. Maybe even in ground wireless charging as we drive :)

fazman | April 6, 2020

@yudansha No need for the bracelet, Tesla already has the app on my phone :D for my solar and the car

lbowroom | April 6, 2020

faz - multi gear trans completely unnecessary unless you plan on doing 100-180mph sprints. Read Car and Drivers write about the Taycan.

Your posts sound exactly like trolling rants. Pointing out what appear to be basic flaws in Tesla and the EV industry as a whole. You are just plain wrong. So obvious what your path is going to be here. You are far from keeping it real

Magic 8 Ball | April 6, 2020

Variable speed pool pumps have no analogous relevance to EVs having a gearbox and efficiency. This guy is whacked.

WW_spb | April 6, 2020

How cute. Fish just posted it in general.

"FISHEV | April 6, 2020
This is amusing. One of the spammers posted it and the only people replying are the spammer trolls themselves.

Guess it worked in baiting the trolls. Brer Rabbit and the tar baby?"

Earl and Nagin ... | April 6, 2020

I haven't figured you out yet so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt:
Welcome to the world of EVs!
I'm sure that as you hang out around here, assuming the battle with the Trolls doesn't get you down, you'll see how EVs, if done correctly, really are a huge improvement on ICE in just about every way.
First of all, even without unlimited FUSC, if you own your own home, you will be able to save a lot of money and time by not having to buy expensive gasoline and being able to charge at home. If you don't own your home or can't charge from your electric meter, your costs and convenience will depend on your circumstances. The worst case is that it may cost you about as much as gasoline would and be a little less convenient if you're stuck with expensive public chargers. The best case is that it will be a whole lot cheaper and more convenient. At my office, EV charging is free for employees. EV drivers conveniently charge during the day and pay nothing for their energy.
Regarding efficiency: electric motors are extremely efficient (around 90%) up to some speed. Above that speed, they become inefficient. When you're around 90%, there isn't a whole lot of room left that needs improvement.
EV manufacturers who are trying to do a good job on designing their EVs will size the motors and fixed reduction gear so that the top 'normal' speed is below the point where efficiency drops off. Usually aero drag affects efficiency long before electric motor efficiency does. A side benefit, however, is that that efficient selection of electric motor and gear leads to an incredible amount of torque available, should the owner wish to use it >:-)
You will note that the better variable speed pool pumps don't vary the speed with gears either. They have motor speed settings for higher, lower, and sometimes in between, just like EVs. Like EVs, you won't consume as much energy if you are going slowly because you are only moving a small amount of fluid whether the fluid is water through the pipes or air around the car.
Sadly, in my experience, Tesla is the only EV company that has put any effort into making good, efficient EVs. GM engineers have tried and come close with the Bolt but the rest just slap a motor and batteries together and try to shove it into the market possibly with a lame greenwashing slant like the BMW i3.

howard | April 6, 2020

lbowroom | April 6, 2020
faz - multi gear trans completely unnecessary unless you plan on doing 100-180mph sprints. Read Car and Drivers write about the Taycan.

Guess it is all one’s perspective when reading. From Car and Driver:

“The Porsche Taycan is the first EV with a two-speed transmission, which provides numerous advantages over the single-speed arrangement found in every other electric vehicle.”

Two speed: Better low end acceleration and better highway efficiency.

“And what a vessel it is. Judged from the driver's seat alone, the Taycan is the better car. It meets the high expectations of this storied brand, proves its real-world range, and moves the EV bar on a couple fronts.”

spuzzz123 | April 7, 2020

“ only reason i got my model 3 was if it came with a lifetime FUSC”

Can you expand on this? Why are you valuing this so much? Unless you do some bighorn kind of freeway driving which is prolific, I cannot see a huge financial benefit here. I pay probably $40 per month to charge at home. In 2 years I have taken 14 road trips ranging from 200 miles to 1400 miles and have spent a total of $320 in supercharger fees. If I had FUSC, and I used it for 100% of my local charging (which I wouldn’t as the convenience of charging at home is amazing), it would be worth $40x12 for local Driving per year and $160 for road trips. $640 per year of ownership. Why is this such a dealbreaker for you? No Model 3 without it?

jallred | April 7, 2020


Your point got me thinking about the whole "Tesla is making a killing off of SC" debate. Those that think they are making a lot of money always calculate it based on supply numbers. How many charges can a charger do per day, etc.

But if we look at it from the demand side, it is a very different story.

Average person drives 1000 miles per month. 1000 miles is around 300kWh. 300kWh at $.28 is $84.

A car that uses exclusively SC will on average spend less than $100 a month on SC charges.

If we assume the fleet is 1 million cars still on the road, the per car revenue gets turned into million.

I'm sure that Tesla has numbers on how many fleet miles are powered by SC vs home/work charging.
But, if you maybe assume that at most half of the people are exclusively using SC and actually paying for it. Seems like a big stretch to me, then mostly revenue is capped at less than $50M. And that is just revenue. Doesn't account for costs.

Makes you wonder about 3rd party charging networks. EA is forced as a penalty to spend $2B on their network. They intentionally exclude 80% of the EVs from their network. And it is only in the US. At less than $100 max per car, there are not enough cars in the US, non-Tesla to support enough revenue to ever make money on the network.

Tesla just passed 200,000 US cars sometime around end of 2019. If they have 80% of all US EVs then non-Tesla EVs are 40k.

40k cars * $100/month revenue is $4M a month revenue. That's 42 years of revenue to equal the $2B investment.
And that is if all 40k cars exclusively use EA charging. I have one of them, and it has never been L3 charged in 1 year of ownership.

I haven't spent money on SC charging on my Tesla since July, and I currently have a balance of 1300 miles of free charging still to use.

Same story goes for Tesla service work. In order to make $700M in revenue per quarter or $250M per month every single car needs to spend $250 every month at a Tesla Service Center. I spent $200 in my year of ownership, but that includes wheel accessories that I had installed. Basically, they charged me $80 to patch a tire and $40 to adjust my windows. Since most cars are still under warranty, I can't imagine how they could ever get $250/month/car revenue.

Tronguy | April 7, 2020

@jailred: Telsa has publicly stated several times that they're not looking to make any money on the supercharger network. Basically, they charge roughly twice the going residential rate at a SC station. I figure that the double-the-cost bit goes into maintenance, taxes, electricity costs, and putting in new superchargers.
Given the propensity of Seeking Alpha and other shorters to find holes in the financial statements and the absolute lack of shorter data stating that Tesla is either (a) losing money on SC's or (b) making loads on SCs, it's highly likely that Tesla isn't making money on the network.
A year-and-a-half or so ago I sat down and figured out, with gas somewhere north of $2.50 a gallon, that, if my Prius actually got the 50 mpg it advertises on the tin, that the cost of fuel, Prius vs. Tesla at superchargers, was just about parity. Fine, so far as that goes. But that doesn't include the oil changes and other ICE work, and it's rare to take the Prius into a dealer for any kind of checkup and not walk out a couple hundred bucks poorer.
And, since the Tesla gets plugged into the house for most of its charging, and the house is solar powered, the incremental cost of driving the Tesla around is near zero. Unless one has a private oil well, refinery, and zero maintenance on those two, try that with an ICE :).

tew ms us | April 7, 2020

Did you know Pinocchio's hot dates yelled "Lie! Lie! Lie!"?

Magic 8 Ball | April 7, 2020

: )

lbowroom | April 7, 2020

Sorry, you're right howard, I got that mixed up with the Road And Track review.

"In other words, Porsche wants the Taycan to behave consistently, unlike other EV's. Yet one more fantastic laugh, as that two-speed rear gearbox removes consistent acceleration response in real life"

"Porsche likely wanted the Taycan to be able to keep up with Tesla's Model S Performance at low speed (it doesn't) and hand it a steaming can of German Whoop-Ass during high-speed autobahn drag races (it does, above 100mph). Unfortunately, that's yet another use case irrelevant in the real world...."

howard | April 7, 2020

lbowroom, Thank you for the acknowledgment.

Great article if your interested in learning about the benefits of a two speed EV transmission as well as what Tesla tried to do early on and could not..

Joshan | April 7, 2020

I swear has something that notifies howard when his name is used. He really does not post that often, but then mentioned he is here like lightning.

lbowroom | April 7, 2020

Of course he highlights that I made an error and doesn't say anything about the Road and Track quotes. Pure troll.

lbowroom | April 7, 2020

to suggest that Tesla tried and failed to make a transmission is ludicrous. They proved that you don't need one and that your driving experience is better because of it.

howard | April 7, 2020

lbowroom, Just providing an opportunity for you to actually learn something. Guess that did not matter to you so pure Tesla fanboi!