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Unlimited charging or AP2?

Unlimited charging or AP2?

Been searching for a used 2016 X w/ AP2 for the unlimited super charging but late 2016 models w/ AP2 are super rare. Would you put more value on free supercharging or a newer X w/ AP2? Or should I bite the bullet and pay an extra $30k to buy new? Average used 2016 are in the low $70k. Any regrets going to the X? I'll be getting rid of a 2015 Range Rover full size.

kenj | January 30, 2019

Depends on how much you drive around the country - free supercharging is great for traveling - however AP2 is good for the traveling as well. Tough call.

burdogg | January 30, 2019

I have one of those rare breads Dec 2016 90D - No way I would give it away for low 70k though :) (I also purchased FSD with it).

burdogg | January 30, 2019

ok, maybe I would for 78,000 :)

Back to your question though - that is a really tough question - 2016 models are going to be 90D with max range of 256, or 75 and I can't remember those max ranges. New, the lowest max range is 270. How much supercharging are you going to be doing?

Benefit of new AP 2 is basically ability to upgrade to FSD if they get there...AP 1 won't ever happen. Other than that - AP 1 is just as good as AP 2 - at least my experiences. Sure Nav on Autopilot for AP 2 is a feature you don't get with AP 1.0, but in reality - do you really need that???

So don't have many answers for you though - tough decision. Need a lot more info - as far as how much traveling do you do, how many miles, how much supercharging do you predict, what kind of traveling - where do you live (smaller towns, or densely packed LA traffic...etc..)

info | January 31, 2019

I'm thinking of selling my MX 90D 2017. Upgrading to 2018 MXP100D. 90 is loaded except for radio. 96K.

info | January 31, 2019

I'm thinking of selling my MX 90D 2017. Upgrading to 2018 MXP100D. 90 is loaded except for radio. 96K. Unlimited free charging and AP2.

inconel | January 31, 2019

Does free Supercharging transfer to the next owner of your 2017 MX?

Ddowns2050 | January 31, 2019

I would take the charging. I have an X with AP1 and a S with AP2. Other than the dash showing more info about cars around you at this point I can't tell the difference.

nipper2 | January 31, 2019

@Ddowns2050 How about the extra cameras in the AP2 and the Dashcam. I too am trying to decide if I should buy an X CPO I already own the S90D which I will keep

nipper2 | January 31, 2019

@Ddowns2050 How about the extra cameras in the AP2 and the Dashcam. I too am trying to decide if I should buy an X CPO I already own the S90D which I will keep

kenj | January 31, 2019

Supercharging does not transfer - 2017 and later. That why the unicorn is a 2016 with AP2.

burdogg | January 31, 2019

nipper2 - The dashcam is the only real benefit so far - and that can only be found on AP 2.5 cars (so any brand new ones for sure). The extra cameras really don't make any difference yet - with the exception of this navigate on autopilot stuff - you don't get that with AP 1 and that is what the extra cameras get you.

I have the reverse of Ddowns2050 - S with AP 1 and X with AP 2 and totally agree with him :)

nipper2 | February 1, 2019

@burdogg Doesn't the AP2 give you extra visibility with the extra cameras ? Compared to my S with AP1

nipper2 | February 1, 2019

@burdogg Doesn't the AP2 give you extra visibility with the extra cameras ? Compared to my S with AP1

Solarman004 | February 1, 2019

@vu, I have both an AP1 2016 MX, and an AP2 M3. I've have both on 3000+ mile cross country trips. This may not be a popular opinion but in my experience, the AP1 performs better with no false obstacle braking, and ability to read speed limit signs. You lose Navigate on Autopilot (which I've tried but don't use), and built in dash cam.
If it were me, I would save the $30000 and go with the AP1 plus free supercharging.

bp | February 1, 2019

While the AP2 software still has areas where AP1 is better (false braking, no speed limit sign detection), now that NOAP (Navigate On AutoPilot) has been released, the AP software is able to drive from entry ramp to exit ramp, including highway interchanges and lane changes. Current software requires stalk confirmation before initiating a lane change; Musk has indicated that could be automatic very soon.

And, if a vehicle also has FSD purchased, while Tesla probably won't be approved for vehicles operating without driver control in the near term, it's likely that sometime this year, we'll start seeing NOAP work beyond limited access highways, which would probably require having FSD. And vehicles with FSD purchased will also be getting a free upgrade to the new HW3/AP3 processor.

As for free supercharging, the value of that benefit depends upon how much long distance driving you do each year. Assuming you start out each trip after overnight charging and end each day's driving where you can overnight charge at a home or destination charger, the free supercharging will only cover part of the charging costs during your trip. We estimated this might only be an annual savings for us of $100-200, averaged over the life of our Tesla vehicles.

However, if you do not have access to overnight charging, and will be relying on superchargers for all of your charging, then the value of supercharging increases significantly (which is a major reason why Tesla had to discontinue Free Unlimited Supercharging).

bp | February 1, 2019

While the AP2 software still has areas where AP1 is better (false braking, no speed limit sign detection), now that NOAP (Navigate On AutoPilot) has been released, the AP software is able to drive from entry ramp to exit ramp, including highway interchanges and lane changes. Current software requires stalk confirmation before initiating a lane change; Musk has indicated that could be automatic very soon.

And, if a vehicle also has FSD purchased, while Tesla probably won't be approved for vehicles operating without driver control in the near term, it's likely that sometime this year, we'll start seeing NOAP work beyond limited access highways, which would probably require having FSD. And vehicles with FSD purchased will also be getting a free upgrade to the new HW3/AP3 processor.

As for free supercharging, the value of that benefit depends upon how much long distance driving you do each year. Assuming you start out each trip after overnight charging and end each day's driving where you can overnight charge at a home or destination charger, the free supercharging will only cover part of the charging costs during your trip. We estimated this might only be an annual savings for us of $100-200, averaged over the life of our Tesla vehicles.

However, if you do not have access to overnight charging, and will be relying on superchargers for all of your charging, then the value of supercharging increases significantly (which is a major reason why Tesla had to discontinue Free Unlimited Supercharging).

burdogg | February 1, 2019

@nipper2 - kind of :) AP 1 shows vehicles in front of you and adjacent lanes. Once they get to the front/side of your car - the image diappears. AP 2 the image stays and goes to your back end - direct rear only shows up if car is right on your tail (at least my experience) or at a stop light. So maybe you could say blind spot recognition is better in AP 2 but for the most part, they are still close to the same with visual - plus rarely do you need to see all that data on the screen - nice, but you can see that already with your own eyes :) So maybe the added blind spot helps for some...

chuckgrim | February 1, 2019

I would get the one with AP2. It will eventually be better than AP1 because it has 4 more camera's for a total of eight camera's,

inconel | February 1, 2019

6 more

Passion2Fly | February 1, 2019

The Dashcam argument for AP2 doesn’t really hold. You can get a Balckvue installed for under $800...
I’m starting to see M3 accidents where, due to car systems shutting down upon impact, the accident recording is completely lost! That’s a really big issue!

Ddowns2050 | February 1, 2019

@nipper2. To answer your question, yes there are more cameras on AP2. The dash shows more info like cars in your blindspots which I like. I would think in the future the AP2 could be better than AP1 but I don't think it is yet and AP2 has been out a long time. But as far as the car driving itself there is almost no difference. As far as the dashcam I'm on AP2 and you have to have AP2.5 for that to work. That would be a plus. But to reiterate the car performs the same at present as far as driving itself on autopilot.

burdogg | February 1, 2019

The reality is...ap1 and ap2 are always going to be very similar, honestly. There is only so much more improvement you can do on ap. The next steps are going to be fsd... which is the only reason in my mind to hey ap2 over ap1. I have used ap1 since Nov 2015 and there really isn't much more improvement to be made to have it work. What else could they add... that isn't really part of the fsd suite

bp | February 2, 2019

AP2 has NOAP (Navigate on AutoPilot) on limited access highways. With less processing power and fewer sensors, AP1 will be limited to AutoSteer.

With NOAP today, the AP software will use AutoSteer combined with lane change recommendations to help drive on limited access highways from entry ramp to exit ramp, including highway interchanges plus automatically adjust speeds. With an update soon, Musk has stated the software will also allow you to enable automatic lane changing, removing the need to confirm lane changes.

There is also a possibility that enhanced Summon will be available with AP2/EAP - navigating in parking lots, though that may be a feature reserved for AP2/FSD vehicles.

campusden | February 2, 2019

I own a "Unicorn". 2016 model x with AP2. The "Free supercharging" is worth much more than AP2 autopilot. I drive a known 3 mile stretch of road with 5 speed changes. The AP 2.0 thinks the road is 45 mph the entire stretch, not 40, 45, 40, 35, 45 like it is in reality. I thank "WAZE" everyday. I would know how different AP1 performs except for the loaner I given had it. I also noticed the difference 22 wheels make on Wh/mile.

burdogg | February 2, 2019

Yes as bp stated - that is the only difference between AP 2 and AP 1 - and one has to ask themselves - do they really need the car to switch lanes all on its own without you choosing to do so? That was my main point - that honestly they function the same - EAP only brought the NOAP which for some may be fantastic...but to me, not enough to make a big deal between AP1 and AP2 - but that is just my personal opinion. AP2 only makes sense to me over AP1 if you are going for FSD :)

info | February 3, 2019

Free Supercharging stays with the car for the live of the car.

Jonathantuba | February 3, 2019

I recently made had to make this decision. I already have a model X100D in the UK which is 2018 with free supercharging, but I also drive a lot in the USA on business and wanted a model X to use when states side. A main criteria was for it to have free supercharging, as most of its mileage will be on business roadtrips using Superchargers to power. I therefore opted for an early 2016 90D with free Supercharging, but AP1. Do I regret? No! Navigate on Autopilot would have been nice, particularly navigating complicated junctions around cities, but free Supercharging is more important. For AP1 v AP2. I think AP2 now has the edge. I trust my 2018 100D Autopilot more, but both are good and make driving a lot more enjoyable and relaxing.

burdogg | February 3, 2019

info - yes and NO.
For any car ordered before mid Jan 2017 YES it stays with the car for the life of the car. Anyone that ordered after that date - NOOOO the Free Supercharging DIES with the transfer of the car.

So the only watch out for is those cars that were delivered in Jan/Feb/Mar timeframe - as those that were ordered before the cutoff but delivered in Mar still have it, but those that ordered after the cutoff but took delivery in say Feb will NOT have it - it is all based on ORDER date...

Waldek | February 5, 2019

@info free supercharging ORDER cut off date was January 14th 2017. Like @burdogg said doesn't matter when built and when delivered. It matters when order was placed. So all orders placed after January 14th 2017 until free supercharging for liver of the car was retired completely stays only for the live of the car as long as the car is with original owner. It does not transfer to new owner in such cases.

to OP: Personally I would keep digging for AP2 with transferable free supercharging :-) I am lucky to have such 90D but not selling it. Already almost 70k miles and enjoyed every moment of AP2 and free supercharging :)

Uncle Paul | February 10, 2019

Because Model X was severly supply limited in early Jan 2017, there may be some with transferable Unlimited Supercharging for Life delivered many months after January 14th.

For many of us it is a really desirable feature of the car. The X is less efficient than the smaller and sleeker Model S, so the use of the extra juice is not a financial factor at all.

Still get a little smile on my face when traveling, knowing that there will be no cost for charging along the way.

Most everybody knew that it was not sustainable, but it certainly motivated many of us to move over to Tesla.

newboy | February 12, 2019

I recently got the rare unicorn too!! Model X 75D with AP 2, free super charging for life and full self driving [Dec' 2016 manufactured]. no way I am selling this :)
I think free super charging is excellent on long trips. Recently, we went on $500 mile drive and saved around $60 with the free super charging option. We do around one to two 500 mile trips per month saving us around $100 to $120 per month. I think it will pay for itself after 10 years.
Love the AP 2 also as AP1 does not have a future and Elon promised that FSD [AP 2] will be upgraded to AP 3 hardware if required for FSD in the future.

Redmiata98 | February 12, 2019

He also said you could upgrade the 90 battery to a 100 and I was told from both my service center AND Tesla HQ that it is not possible. I wouldn’t count on that upgrade path either for the AP2.

pjalan | February 13, 2019

Rightly said my many. I’d get both.

noxforpcblog | February 14, 2019

The best ever decision is selling off the range rover and buying new X as far as I believe. If you go for a used car, there is no guarantee that how that preowned owner used the car, it's always better to go with a new product.
https://noxforpc.com/

jimglas | February 15, 2019

troll flagged

info | February 15, 2019

I ordered my 2017 MX 90D with transferable free supercharging December 16, 2016 and took delivery on March 31, 2017. Tesla specifically states on my home page that the free supercharging stays with the car, for the life of the car.

epikula | February 27, 2019

Bought and own a Model 3 since July 03, 2018 and love the car, wanted to get rid of other ICE piece of poop BMW 2015 X3 and did. Bought from tesla 2016 Model X 90 D with premium pack, high fidelity sound, six seater, cold weather pack, air suspension for $59,900 from Tesla. Has AP1, just came back from 1100 mile round trip to Telluride, CO from Chandler, AZ and couldn't tell difference between AP1 and model 3 at this point in time except as others have noted navigate on AP, which on long distance trip car is not getting on and off exits often so no big deal. Bought CPO because I got a 120K vehicle for $59,900 and free supercharging for life. I wont upgrade to Model X until they get battery up around 400Mile range if they ever do.

epikula | February 27, 2019

Meant that I would upgrade from Model X 90D to 100D or other until battery is much bigger and range is significantly farther. If other vaporcar companies such as RIVIAN are supposedly going to do 150KW+ batteries, Im sure Tesla will be bumping up their range/capacities. Seems logical in that they just eliminated smaller 75 versions of s and x.