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VW cheaters try to inhibit Tesla but they are caught again

VW cheaters try to inhibit Tesla but they are caught again

https://electrek.co/2018/03/29/tesla-ev-incentive-supercharger-germany/

I am very disappointed that Germany, who should be environmentally progressive, has these influences slowing progress.
When one thinks about it the EU includes Germany and these tactics won't work in the end.

Boonedocks | March 29, 2018

Right!!! So blatantly lying and cheating that once the investigation of the "allegations" was completed they had to go back and back offer the incentives to those that had previously purchased Tesla's and had been refused the rebate. So glad Tesla stays strong and fights back at such arrogance from those trying to stop them by any means possible except through honest competition.

TeslaTap.com | March 29, 2018

On Supercharger restrictions in Germany that require CCS at each Supercharger, perhaps any CCS DC charger in the USA must have a Tesla Supercharger connection. There are a lot more Teslas in the USA (or anywhere) than there are cars that use the CCS DC charging. Makes sense to me :)

Mike83 | March 29, 2018

Boonedocks and TeslaTap.com Totally agree. +40

rxlawdude | March 29, 2018

@Ttap. Symmetry. Love it!

kerryglittle | March 29, 2018

Where would we be without lawyers? LOL. :-/

lolachampcar | March 29, 2018

Back to talking to each other again :)

Reminds me of a waitress telling me one time "We have no WiFi; you'll have to talk to each other"

Silver2K | March 29, 2018

Awesome waitress!

bill | March 29, 2018

@kerrglittle
"Where would we be without lawyers? LOL. :-/"

Probably a lot better off since they likely started the problem. :)

Mike83 | March 31, 2018

I used to believe in VW Porsche and even owned a few. No more.Tesla is a much better vehicle anyway.

Mike83 | April 4, 2018

https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/04/vw-dieselgate-epic-scale-the-big-pic...
The immense catastrophe of VW dieselgate and the higher ups seem to go scott free.

Boonedocks | April 5, 2018

“The immense catastrophe of VW dieselgate and the higher ups seem to go scott free“

That is just incredible. With “wrist slap” punishment and all of the $$ and profits of future sales....they’ll just wash-rinse-repeat again. Where there is no punishment the behavior will continue.

Thanks for following the story Mike

Mike83 | April 5, 2018

Your welcome. It is an interesting story. Someone is making a movie about VW Porsche which interests me. One very big issue is the shame and negative PR that harms the company but in any case the higher ups should be held accountable as that is what they are paid for. The damage they have caused is inexcusable and needs to be addressed.

milesbb | April 5, 2018

Lets not forget US higher-ups Scott Pruitt and Donald Trump who need to be prosecuted for their roll in repeal of air emission standards for glider kits. Bigger crime then VW's dieselgate.

https://www.gobytrucknews.com/senator-epa-glider-repeal/123

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/15/epa-expands-loophole-polluting-diesel/

How can we be so upset with VW when Pruitt does a back room deal that causes greater damage then VW. At least VW paid billions in damages. Not a dime from Fitzgerald Glider Kits .

Mike83 | April 5, 2018

@milesbb +100 Reminds of the song Murder by Numbers.

Mike83 | May 3, 2018

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2018-05-03/former-vw-ceo-i...

Slowly they nail the culprits. Will they get all of them?

Tropopause | May 3, 2018

Nice to see justice served. So many more to go.

carlk | May 3, 2018

I hope he goes to jail although it's probably hard to do so. The harm he's done is orders of magnitude higher than those who went to jail for selling weeds to a few people.

Mike83 | May 4, 2018

These crooks steal much more than a person taking a loaf of bread because of being hungry. They cause deaths and disease. I recall in China a baby milk maker substituted plastic to enhance the protein content via spectrophotometer. This cause some deaths and metabolic defects. China executed these people.

johnyi | May 4, 2018

With all the influence German car manufacturers have in Germany (probably more than US manufacturers have in the US), and how Tesla is killing sales of high end German brands, it's amazing Tesla is even able to sell cars there. Talk about working in enemy territory.

SamO | May 4, 2018

The powerful having to account is such an unusual outcome that I am UNSURPRISED that this has gotten so little coverage.

Elon calling a question "boring" has 10X the coverage.

I guess we can finally put to rest the "If other automakers got away with what Tesla gets away with . . ." bullshit.

WHitchings | May 4, 2018

Actually, I agree with the EPA standards being frozen or relaxed. My reasons are different than the car makers, for sure. The car makers want to sell the same old crap they've always sold, as cheaply as possible, hence their argument to halt the EPA. Higher sales will almost always translate to higher employment rates, so good luck countering that argument. No politician can go wrong creating jobs.

The reason *I* think the EPA standards should be frozen or regressed somewhat is that they are no longer accomplishing their goals of either reduced air pollution or (their original intent) of reduced fuel consumption. We have long since failed any increasing return on investment in reducing fuel usage. It isn't the 70's anymore and my 2012 RAV4 gets worse mileage than my 1981 Honda Accord did. I know they're not the same vehicle but we aren't seeing any radical improvement in mileage - it's all incremental in fractions of an MPG.

And that fraction of an MPG is at a horrendous cost. Audi, according to an article I read, is putting regen brakes on their gas cars so they can turn off the alternator for a few seconds when you slow down. This takes a microscopic load off the engine but with no significant improvement in MPG. Almost all car makers - even my RAV4 - no longer offer bigger engines but turbocharge, double turbocharge, supercharge and now turbo + supercharge engines to get minor improvements in MPG. I just rode in a Mercedes hybrid that had both a low-speed and a high-speed turbo (two turbos). The mileage of the hybrid, regardless of mode, was far less than the EPA rating.

The cost of this draconian EPA mileage requirement is dramatically increased repair and maintenance cost with reduced reliability. Don't think so? Take a bi-turbo car into your mechanic and watch him pull a vacation brochure out of his desk - he know's you're paying to send him to Tahiti. It simply does not pay to greatly increase the mechanical complexity of a vehicle for insignificant improvements in MPG. You kids don't remember, but the Nash Metropolitan - a small car from the '50s - got 50 mpg.

The answer is that the gasoline engine is as efficient and as clean as it's ever going to get. We need to STOP trying to improve it. The solution is to use zero emission vehicles. Let's do what China is doing - require auto makers to sell, say, 20% of their vehicles as electrics in 5 years. Only an EV significantly reduces emissions. Stop these expensive, ineffectual standards that guarantee income for mechanics.

finman100 | May 4, 2018

Motor Trend praised the car’s economy: their test Metropolitan returned:

39.4 mpg‑US (5.97 L/100 km; 47.3 mpg‑imp) at 45 mph (72 km/h),
27.4 mpg‑US (8.6 L/100 km; 32.9 mpg‑imp) at 60 mph (97 km/h), and
30.1 mpg‑US (7.8 L/100 km; 36.1 mpg‑imp) "in traffic."[21]

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_Metropolitan

45 MPG at 30 MPH per Motor Trend 1954.

from here: http://www.metropolitan-library.com/MT11544.jpg

DTsea | May 4, 2018

milesbb how many of those kits are sold every year?

Victorg-90D | May 4, 2018

EPA mileage requirement is for average for all cars sold. The easiest way to improve Average MPG is to sell more sedans and less SUVs/trucks for a single driver use.

Now how about "Ford is getting out of the car business" - they will make only SUVs and trucks. Those cars will be hybrids with good MPG in city, but still worse than Fusion hybrid which gets 40 MPG on Bay Area freeways @80mph (for 40 MPG it needs slight uphill/downhill road which switches between gas and electric engines, otherwise 33MPG on flat freeway).

TeslaTap.com | May 4, 2018

Perhaps a better way to handle pollution and oil/gas reductions are to charge an annual tax based on EPA mpg. Just one easy way this could work is below 20 mpg. $2000/year. 20-30 mpg $1000/year, 31-40 mpg $500/year, 41-50 mpg $200/year, 51-60 no-charge. Above 61 mpg the money from the fuel hogs could go to pay out to those buying more efficient vehicles that get more than 60 mpg on a similar sliding scale.The better the vehicle, the more would be paid out annually.

Ok, not likely this would happen, but there are plenty of ways to encourage pollution reduction and reduce gas/oil use. Far larger taxes on oil/gas would be one way. Perhaps $3 per gallon would make people wake up. I bet it costs us more than $3/gallon to fight all these middle east wars, let alone the untold deaths to our service men and women.

johnyi | May 4, 2018

@TeslaTap, good arguments but the wrong guys are in charge right now to listen to them. I agree the best thing is to attack demand not supply, but those in charge now are beholden to the oil companies and polluters so good luck getting anyone to care about either the environment or reducing dependence on oil.

milesbb | May 5, 2018

@DTsea
Last data is the Glider kits have ramped up from 1,000/year in 2010 to 10,000 per year in 2015. Likely much higher in 2018.
From the NY Times:

The air pollution from these glider trucks was so bad that one year’s worth of truck sales was estimated to release 13 times as much nitrogen oxide as all of the Volkswagen diesel cars with fraudulent emissions controls, a scheme that resulted in a criminal case against the company and more than $4 billion in fines.

This EPA deal was cut for only a $225k kick back from Fitzgerald Trucks. VW needs to learn from Fitzgerald Trucks how to poison Americans at a good price. VW is paying much to high a price.

Additionally these Glider trucks do not come with the monitoring systems so the driver can easily fake driver logs and fall asleep on the road.

Mike83 | May 6, 2018

Murder by Numbers, one, two, three, its as easy to learn as your abc's. Every breathe you take.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=569
The evil deeds of politicians/lobbyists

Mike83 | May 27, 2018

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-27/diesel-cars-to-die-ou...
Looks like Diesel is capot in the EU. Batteries and EV's are in.

Mike83 | July 29, 2018

EPA reverses Glider diesel giveaway.

Mike83 | October 26, 2018

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/chrysler/2018/10/26/cab...

Lets put information on UAW in with these guys. Seems corruption is not limited in any country

jordanrichard | October 27, 2018

Mike83 and this is surprising to who..........? When auto workers go on strike, it is their income that takes a hit while walking the picket line, in all sorts of weather, but the UAW leaders keep getting their full pay and compensation in their offices.

hpjtv | October 28, 2018

I'm in BC Canada. There was an EV incentive. I missed it by 1 month back in 2014. After I got the car, they started the program again 2 month after... so I was out of luck. Fast forward to now, there is a cap on the MSRP that the MS/MX no longer qualifies for but the M3 does as long as you don't add too many options. Really stupid as it is called an EV incentive yet the MS/MX don't qualify. And who wants to buy a car without any options to be under that cap? You can't even add options to your MS/MX without another penalty. Only in BC Canada is there a luxury tax. A 100D vehicle would be charged 25% total tax so most people are stuck with buying the 75D with little options or buying used from a private person. The luxury tax even applies to CPO vehicles or any used vehicle sold by a dealer. I don't know who makes up these stupid laws.

Mike83 | October 29, 2018

@hpjtv That is low and explains why so many people are sick and tired of the politicians beholden to fossil fuel kingpins. The people need to figure out who is being somewhat less sleazy I guess and vote accordingly.
The corporate controlled news media has gotten pretty bad. Hard to find truth. I dislike reading any news lately as it doesn't seem to contain any facts only opinions for an agenda. In America we used to have people like Walker Cronkite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Cronkite
but now we have this crazed faux news that seems to air peoples frustrations scapegoating enemies of the fossil fuel interests.
I am finding getting the news from comedians has more factual information and is funny.

Mike83 | October 29, 2018

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/29/is-vw-lying-yet-again/

Just saw this. Is VW doing the same MO again?

jordanrichard | October 30, 2018

What people seem to keep forgetting is that when the Germans, well even Volvo, say we will have "electrics" by whatever date, they are talking about hybrids as well as BEV. Any vehicle with an electric motor, they consider "electric". Also, VW along with everyone else is just trying to grab headlines. These cars are being designed/built for the Chinese market. It is akin to Toyota saying we have a fuel cell car. Ya, only in CA. Hell, I didn't even know, and probably no one else outside of CA, that Toyota made a BEV RAV 4. Yet, Toyota can lay claim to having a BEV.

inconel | October 30, 2018

Wasn't the Toyota BEV RAV 4 made by Tesla?

PBEndo | October 30, 2018

@inconel
Tesla supplied the batteries but didn't build the whole car

PBEndo | October 30, 2018

actually the motor and controller too

Mike83 | January 10, 2019

How many of these cheaters are continuing to cheat and get away with it for only a fine while people get diseases?

https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/01/ram-and-jeep-face-a-650-million-governm...

jordanrichard | January 11, 2019

I love how Chrysler is not admitting they did anything wrong, yet they are paying over a 1/4 of a billion dollars......

That's akin to each of paying a speeding ticket fine, event though we weren't driving on that particular day.....

Mike83 | January 11, 2019

The news media is pretty quiet about this. I found it by accident. But if Tesla has a flat tire the news is all over it.

Mike83 | January 12, 2019

I think the cheaters are not only damaging their car brands but destroying jobs. Even Ford is laying off workers.
Of course this doesn't hurt Tesla whose reputation is so good they don't need to advertise.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/business/ford-motor-layoffs-europe.html

jordanrichard | January 12, 2019

Jaguar/Land Rover is also letting people go. What is driving this is the cooling off auto market in China. With the Chinese market turning to EVs and Ford/Jagauar/Land Rover not having any EVs except the one and only I-Pace, they have nothing to sell in China. The EV revolution is really making it’s mark felt in Europe and China.

billUK | January 12, 2019

Car sales in the UK have crashed, mainly because of emissions cheating with diesel engines, the threat of ICE engines being phased out and action being taken to reduce air pollution by making high access charges to towns linked to NOx levels and age of vehicle. The recent austerity measures have not helped either so some people are holding on to their cars longer in order to find out what the effects will be.

p.c.mcavoy | January 12, 2019

@Mike83 - RE the media being quiet, this isn’t totally new news. The only thing really new is the financial amounts. The main announcement of the finding of non-compliance was last fall. There also have been articles that have been published in many national media.

Tesla-David | April 14, 2019

Wow, thanks @Mike83 for staying on this story. Utterly reprehensible and disgusting!

Mike83 | April 14, 2019

It appears many Germans prefer Teslas now. Amazing growth.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/14/tesla-453-sales-growth-in-germany-i...

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