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What happens to the owners who bought the old EAP package last year and did not buy FSD?

What happens to the owners who bought the old EAP package last year and did not buy FSD?

I have a friend who does not like online forums and asked me to post this....

I know there has been a lot of debate over whether the new FSD package will include HW3 (especially after what Elon said at the Y reveal last night), but what then happens with the people who simply purchased the old EAP package last year? Are they not going to be able to take advantage of the new features set to debut later this year and for years to come?

I assume there must be something to gain since Tesla is encouraging owners who only have the old EAP to buy the new FSD for an additional 2k. Is that additional 2k simply for new hardware down the road or is that 2k for new features down the road? Will the old EAP package continue to expand with new features?

Essentially, will an owner with only the old EAP be forever stuck with?:

Nav on AP
Auto lane change
TACC
Autosteer
Summon
Autopark

TeslaTap.com | March 15, 2019

Advanced summon is planned for EAP, as is unassisted lane change of Nav on AP. Perhaps we'll see a few additional features. It will not include FSD, but what makes it a bit confusing is some features now stated as FSD features (i.e. the two above) are also part of EAP.

The FSD for $2K upgrade price is going up on Monday - presumably $3K, but could be more. It includes a HW3 retrofit AP processor.

twistedskipper | March 15, 2019

@RES IPSA: Only guessing, of course, but I would expect those EAP features you listed to receive updates, and I would hope they eventually are no longer marked as "beta". I would NOT expect any additional features not already on that list to be added to EAP, but only to FSD.

At this moment, I can't quickly lay my hands on anything indicating that Advanced Summon or Unassisted Lane Change will ever be in EAP, but anyone who can do so will hopefully provide that reference.

weluvm3 | March 15, 2019

"It includes a HW3 retrofit AP processor." Where, on the order page, did it say this?

spooky action | March 15, 2019

I've got the same question. I think it will also include advanced summon and the street light/stop sign recognition purportedly available later "this year." That is based upon the absence of that incentivizing language from the FSD offer of $2k for those who already have EAP, but the inclusion of same, along with current EAP-features such as NoA, Summon, etc., in the description for those seeking to purchase FSD for $3k in order to upgrade from AP.

In other words, outside of as-yet unrevealed FSD features (including HW3), people who paid $5k for EAP would be getting identical features to those who have paid the same $5k for the newer AP+FSD.

RES IPSA | March 15, 2019

I just purchased the new AP package for 2k. I do plan on buying the FSD for 3k before Monday as I feel my car will be left behind (and jealous) of all of the new features planned for FSD in the coming years.

jjgunn | March 15, 2019

Won't get the stop at stop sign & stop lights in city driving (new definitions of FSD).

Everything else they currently have stays.

burdogg | March 15, 2019

My opinion here - but founded on previous Tesla definitions.

When one bought EAP in the past - there was EAP and FSD. EAP had specific sets of things it would do listed under the option to buy. Those things were:
Auto lane change without driver input
Exit the freeway and come to a stop
Move from one freeway to another without driver input.

End - that was it - basically, get on the freeway and not do a thing until you got to the end of your exit ramp.

Under FSD there was:
Get in your car and have it take you anywhere without driver input. It specifically stated it would stop at stop lights and stop signs too.

So the funny thing is - everyone now sees they changed things up and somehow think FSD now means EAP - it DOESN'T - or else they would just call it EAP.

The change brought back basic Autopilot - no enhancements. They got rid of the ability to purchase enhanced autopilot - and have now just broadened what Full Self Driving entails. This is for those purchasing FSD NOW.

So those that bought EAP - bought just that - what EAP used to be - not some future FSD feature. Tesla pretty much has completed all EAP features that were promised (with the exception of still have to confirm your lane change). Hence they have now stopped offering EAP. So those that bought EAP - have received all they paid for. If one is wanting stop signs and stop lights - that was always billed under FSD when they were selling EAP. That feature even now is still billed under...FSD - so if one wants this - they will need to pony up - pay more to get the FSD. :)

EAPme | March 15, 2019

Contemplating the same. I purchased the "old" EAP last year at the bargain price of $5500 (post-delivery promotional price at EAP trial end). Not a bargain now, of course, but that's life..

FSD is a bargain at $2K but I'm still on the fence.

Magic 8 Ball | March 15, 2019

Why are you using the language: "stuck with"?

Sounds like something a FUDster would post.

RES IPSA | March 15, 2019

Stuck = will not expand or change in the future

rxlawdude | March 15, 2019

@RES, you being accused by M8B as a "FUDster" is the funniest thing I've read all day! :-)

RES IPSA | March 15, 2019

@burdogg... best explanation I have read so far... thanks

spooky action | March 15, 2019

So why wouldn't those features (street light/stop sign) be listed under FSD for those who currently have EAP (they aren't in the description), but be listed under FSD for those who don't have EAP?

bpaul | March 15, 2019

They didn't "broaden" FSD's definition, they moved it. They took out autonomous driving and added what EAP already had. Then they took those things out of EAP. That seems more like a narrowing to me.

Whether stopping at lights and signs (even though you'll need to monitor it to make sure it works each time) and "automatic driving on city streets" is worth $2K is a personal call, but it sure isn't anything a reasonable person could call *full* self driving.

spooky action | March 15, 2019

To clarify, why wouldn't street light and stop sign recognition be listed in the $2k offer for FSD for those who already have EAP?

Magic 8 Ball | March 15, 2019

Having @rxlawdude acknowledge he reads my posts is the funniest thing I have read since the last time he said he blocks my posts. (third or fourth time now).

burdogg | March 15, 2019

@RES IPSA - it is like AP 1.0 - there are still steady improvements on it - but nothing mind blowing - no major new features. I would bet the same is with EAP - there will still be improvements on the current things it does - but any new major things are going to be reserved now for FSD. (The one that I am still unsure on is this advanced summons - as it was not ever stated that I saw as part of EAP but it seems like it has been said before it would be part of EAP - so that one to me is still in the air :)

The reality is that Musk has promised for some time that FSD purchasers would see divergence in features from EAP. In fact he even at times said 3 months, definitely 6 months - that was last year or even 2 years ago - can't remember. But we still see zero difference between EAP and FSD. So I think we are just now going to be seeing that - hopefully 3 months, but definitely 6 months :) (I am just quoting Musk from way back, the time frame for now is really unknown :)

I think Musk really thought we would get some FSD items (like stop lights and stop signs) even while they developed NoAP for EAP - but yet, nothing - just EAP features, no FSD enhancements yet...

burdogg | March 15, 2019

@spooky action - this is what is stated in my Upgrade version - is it different for others??
Full Self Driving Capability
- Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
- Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
- Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
Coming later this year:

- Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
- Automatic driving on city streets
Note: Autopilot is required for the purchase of Full Self Driving Capability

spooky action | March 15, 2019

Yep, mine is different, burdogg:

Adding this option today means you will be one of the first to experience full self-driving when it becomes available in the future.

Note: Enhanced Autopilot is required for the purchase of Full Self Driving Capability.

It is this distinction that causes me to believe (though I question it) that street light/stop sign and auto street driving will be included with EAP, just like the other features listed in your FSD offer are already included (NoA, park, summon).

I don't believe any of those will require HW3, and so I think they will be added in an OTA to everyone with EAP and/or FSD. The EAP/FSD distinction, IMO, lies in HW3 and future, currently unknown features.

Again, I have my doubts, but that is the basis for my reasoning.

burdogg | March 15, 2019

Interesting - I still think that if those that don't pay for FSD get stop lights and stop signs...Tesla will find themselves in some deep water - as this was such a distinction that many (myself included) paid for FSD upfront. To me - dating back to Oct 2016, they are just begging for someone to file a class action lawsuit due to this - just like they got nailed with the EAP class action lawsuit. I am not saying I would - as I find we sue way too much over things...but I do think it exposes them to more liability - instead of just making those that have EAP pay for that feature (ie get FSD ;)

But what do I know - maybe I am just holding on to the old statements and thinking Tesla should follow their previous statements - if for anything but to be honest and protect themselves :)

slee44 | March 15, 2019

I purchased the both EAP and FSD yesterday, how quickly my TM3 will be activated, any idea?

rxlawdude | March 15, 2019

@M8B, some platforms don't support the twit filter. So I see some of your spew occasionally. Unfortunately.

But with respect to your lack of decorum and need for ad hominem attacks, res ipsa loquitur. (Not the Tesla owner, the Latin.)

slee44 | March 15, 2019

Sorry I mean AP and FSD, not EAP.

RES IPSA | March 15, 2019

@slee44... I think within 3-4 days. It took me just over 3 days to get the new AP package onto my car

jithesh | March 15, 2019

your friend still stuck with AP/FSD confusion.. I thought we moved on.. today's hot topic is supposed to be model y.. isnt it ?

P49X | March 15, 2019

EAP owners won't lose the autopilot capabilities they now have:

TACC
Autosteer
Auto Lane Change (with confirmation)
Navigate on Autopilot (highways, between on/exit ramps)
Autopark
Summon

It's safe to say EAP owners will get bug fixes and minor enhancements to these current capabilities. At the other extreme, EAP owners can't expect AP 3.0 hardware and hence also probably not any capabilities depending on it.

In between, it is fuzzy. Advanced Summon and Auto Lane Change (without confirmation), maybe/maybe not. NoAP (city) and Stop Sign/Light Recognition, not likely for EAP-only owners.

FSD is attractive because regardless of when, or whether, it gets close to Level 4, it is likely to continue adding features such as those already announced for later this year. Equally important, FSD gets the AP 3.0 HW which will benefit all AP capabilities in addition to the advanced capabilities it enables.

The potential value of FSD for EAP owners:

Auto Lane Change (without confirmation)
Advanced Summon
AP 3.0 hardware
Navigate on Autopilot (city)
Traffic Light/Stop Sign Recognition
(as yet unannounced features)

While it would be nice if a summary like this were included on, say, the Tesla Order page, it can be reasonably constructed by applying judgement to information in the order page, news releases, Elon's statements, Tesla representative phone/chat/email/in-person communication, etc.

On the other hand, Tesla being less explicit about AP/EAP/FSD keeps this forum hopping with conjecture!

michaelbaturin | March 16, 2019

There seems to be some disagreement on whether or not “no-confirm” Navigate on autopilot lane change is included with those who had EAP or if FSD will be required. Can anyone who thinks it is included with EAP post their source? I thought it was too but upon going back and looking, all I can find is this tweet from Elon which doesn’t specifically call it out. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1101256189051002881?s=21

RES IPSA | March 16, 2019

Thanks to all... I will forward this info to my friend

WardT | March 16, 2019

My 1 year old M3 LR RWD with EAP currently has navigate on autopilot between freeways and to the freeway exit. It also suggests lane changes when traffic is slow in my lane or when I am approaching my off-ramp. I’m not sure it stops at the light or stop sign after getting off the freeway. I want to buy FSD but won’t plunk down anymore money until I know exactly what I am getting. I had all of these mentioned features before I got the 2019.5.15 update about a week ago

phongski | March 16, 2019

For those who are still wondering about the hardware retrofit that was said to come with FSD, here's a message I got from Tesla.

"I would firstly like to thank you for your time and effort in reaching out to us, as well as for your patience while we work through our email queues. I have reviewed your Model 3, and am pleased to say the software for FSD has been installed successfully at this time. When the hardware installments are ready to be retrofit, we will reach out to our customers to have this done."

FYI, I had EAP when I received my M3 in 10-2018 and just bought the FSD for $2K few days ago.

rkalbiarEV | March 16, 2019

That fact is, nobody knows because Tesla will not simply clarify it!
Frustrating.

taylorgmoody | March 16, 2019

Has anyone confirmed what the price will increase to on Monday? I'm guessing it's going from $2,000 to $3,000, but I don't see any documentation of that anywhere.

thedrisin | March 16, 2019

@taylor. Price increase is not stated. They want to keep everyone guessing and get as many people to sign on. Would be nice if they stated the price so you could make an educated decision what you want to do.

Carl Thompson | March 16, 2019

@michaelbaturin

If I recall correctly EAP at one point already did have no-confirm lane change when on NoAP. If I remember correctly it was rolled out to relatively few cars when NoAP first came out. However that feature was removed in later updates when NoAP was rolled out to the rest of the fleet.

Since that feature was already on EAP cars before I'd guess that EAP cars will get it when it returns. But it's Tesla so who knows what will happen.

Carl Thompson | March 16, 2019

My guess is the sale prices will be extended through the end of the quarter (March).

burdogg | March 16, 2019

@michaelbaturin - When they first introduced EAP back in Oct 2016 - the "Enhanced" vs Regular autopilot had these added features:
Lane change without any driver input
Navigate from one freeway to another without any driver input
Get in the correct lane and take the designated exit on your route

Those were the ONLY 3 things added to Autopilot - and they called it...Enhanced Autopilot.

Everything else was listed in FSD.

I don't know if I can find the source for that - but I know this as I placed my order for the X a week before the announcement - so I could make changes as necessary (they didn't tell us what the announcement was, just the date...so I placed my order before it so I could make any changes, or cancel my order at the time if need be). So I was very well aware of these changes and what was being offered - as I had the option to stay with AP 1.0 at $3,000 or upgrade to the new EAP at $5,000. There were only a handful of us...and I know someone on the X side that chose to stick with AP 1.0 at $3,000....only to now find out he has full EAP capabilities too :)

Anyway - I will see if I can find hte source - but yes - Lane change with NO input is part of EAP.

burdogg | March 16, 2019

Here is one source from Tesla:
Autopilot
Autopilot advanced safety and convenience features are designed to assist you with the most burdensome parts of driving. Autopilot introduces new features and improves existing functionality to make your Tesla safer and more capable over time.

Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous
https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

Magic 8 Ball | March 16, 2019

@rxlawdude You see my user name twit filter or not you can still chose to not read. Why do you blame filter on computer and not one in your head?

rxlawdude | March 16, 2019

Is there an annoying insect flying around this thread?