"You do realize that you have the LOWEST, CHEAPEST, ENTRY level model, don't you??"

"You do realize that you have the LOWEST, CHEAPEST, ENTRY level model, don't you??"

So, back when I still had my 5-series (Beowulf... I hope he went to a loving family), I dropped in on one of the BMW forums for technical advice and ideas from time to time. One of the threads focused on rims and accessories, and a perfectly polite, enthusiastic young man posted some pics of his customized, stripped down 528i. It was clear that owning the car was a stretch for him, and the modifications were a bit... much (21" 5 spoke spinner wheels, purple tint), but he was earnest and doing his best to contribute. One of the lovely forum members, apparently offended that a working-class guy could afford the same family of car as him made the comment in the subject line above. I thought that poster was going to get flamed, but to my dismay, several others piled on including one suggestion that he probably sold drugs to afford the car. The kid took it well, but it was a sad scene. I left a few lame encouraging words and never went back to the forum.

I bring this up to highlight the differences I see between the Bimmer forums and the Tesla community we have here. Of course we have our share of excessively "lively" discussions, over-the-line moments, and over-zealous troll-hunts, but all in all I think this is something pretty special here. The vast majority of contributors are helpful, supportive and contagious (spreading the T-virus). What other forum could start a petition garnering 100,000 signatures in a ridiculously short amount of time? What other forum has a NickJHowe relentlessly perfecting the ubiquitous delivery checklist, or a Mr. Science (Lolachampcar) who basically gives free mechanical engineering lessons and collects/collates advanced metrics on 21" wheel tire wear? Have you ever gone all teary-eyed after reading an internet forum post prior to Rch's "The Tesla Psychosis"?

In short, thanks for not being a bunch of condescending, entitled d*****bags. Thanks for creating a place where our shared insanity can grow and be fed. Thanks for providing sometimes unintentional entertainment, and thanks for infecting me with this marvelous affliction. Carry on.

ian | September 13, 2013

This post makes me smile.

Actually, I have been part of another forum like this involving the current car I own. It was much the same as this one when it started. It has changed as will this one but remains an incredibly vast collection of information.

I look forward to watching this one continuing to grow also.


P.S. Perhaps that should read "over" zealous troll hunts. ;-)

Jamon | September 13, 2013

+100 NoMo! I'm glad we have you on our forum now!

It's funny - I find myself proudly saying the comment from your subject line about my own car while giving test drives. After the first mad acceleration and shrieks from the passengers I find myself saying "... and this is the smallest battery pack with the weakest acceleration that you can get!". And then after blowing them away around a couple curves "... and this one doesn't even have the improved suspension package!". And then when they admire the interior before getting out "... this is just the entry-level textile interior". I'm proud that the economical version of the car is still so much better than everything else on the road.

What a great car. What a great community!

Tâm | September 13, 2013

As long as it's a Tesla, it doesn't hurt to have THE LOWEST, CHEAPEST, ENTRY LEVEL MODEL.

As a matter of fact, it's a badge of honor that only limited people had the privilege of quickly grab them before they disappeared.

That's what you call limited edition for 40 kWh model right?

rch1708 | September 13, 2013

Great original post. Fully agree. I love this community. Beauty is in diversity.

S4WRXTTCS | September 13, 2013

I've had my share of complaints about this forum, but the one part that made me proud of the forum was when someone was trying to figure out if it was financially feasible for him to buy one.

What i liked was people were being honest with him, and the fact that it was just a car. That it wasn't worth jeopardizing his future.

I've seen other car forums practically try to bleed someone dry.

Even the zealots here aren't really all that bad. In fact a lot of times its quite the opposite. Where they've likely contributed money to public chargers (like the 90 days to green washington state thing), or they've opened their house for charging on plugshare.

Gizmotoy | September 13, 2013

That's terrible. People are the worst. And lets be honest: the 5-series starts at, what, $50k? I know people who could probably go swimming in their money ala Scrooge McDuck that won't spend that kind of cash on a car.

I'm cross-shopping an M3 convertible, among others, with the Model S. Which BMW forum should I stay away from (though I suspect the answer is "all of them").

Thomas N. | September 13, 2013

I've always enjoyed Bimmerfest. I had a 5-series and the forums over there were very helpful.

RZitrin1 | September 13, 2013

+10 NoMo. I NEVER do forums, much less car forums. But I've been on this one for over a year, and I've learned so much about my own car.

And the shout-out to NickJ and others - Rod & Barbara, ddruz among 'em for early lists of what's needed - makes this forum a collaberative place of learning and fun.

AmpedRealtor | September 13, 2013

I asked myself this question after reading the OP's post: "Why do people put others down to make themselves feel better?" Basically here is the answer I've found and it might help us to understand the motivation of a troll or someone who is simply being insulting for the sake of insulting. Perhaps knowing this will help us find ways of dealing with those types of people, I found this excerpt from something a life coach wrote online:

"It is a learned pattern of behaviour that is triggered when a person feels threatened or sad. The person who is dishing out the abuse feels that they are losing control, and this scares them. They might feel like they are not needed, or losing a person, or feeling that they are going to be left behind. The fear, whatever it is, will be based on an original wound from their childhood.

"An event takes place, the person feels afraid and they are motivated to do what they can to try to get the situation back in control. They fight because it is what they learned to do in response to fear.
The feeling of power is very real, it comes as an adrenaline rush of energy...that is because they have just taken energy from the person who is percieved as being the one who is leaving, or taking away, or not needing them. However, unlike the power of goodness and truth, this is based on fear and negativity, and it doesn't last. It is an addictive behaviour. The best way to respond is with kindness, empathy and love. Walk away in kindness."

leilanimunter | September 13, 2013

+1 cheers! :) | September 13, 2013

LOL love "T-Virus"

nomoDinos | September 13, 2013

Goneskiian - I should add free copy-editing to the list of plusses on this forum :) Thanks for the correction, it was a late-night post.

I am actually very optimistic that we can keep our "nurturing passion", where newcomers and vets alike can just chat, hang out and be stoked about an amazing, revolutionary company and its products. We can dooo it.

Jamon - exactly! The "entry" model is 10 times better than any car I've ever owned or driven in my life :) No P85+++'s, no 40's or 60's, just a bunch of Tesla nuts in group therapy.

Tam - the early adopters who grabbed those "40's" (or muffled 60's) made out like bandits. Brilliant.

S4W - very true, the troll hunts come from a good place, like an overprotective parent telling another kid to stop pushing their kid around :)

Gizmotoy - That's what astounded me the most. These weren't Ferarris or McLarens we were talking about, not even the top of the BMW heap. Might have been one of the reasons the guy felt compelled to knock the kid down. The forum seemed to attract people who found subtle and not-so-subtle ways of bragging about how much money or stuff they had.

I think it was Bimmerposts where I saw the thread. There are a slew of forums that start with "Bimmer-xxx", and I had accounts on a couple of them. Bimmerforums was the least obnoxious if I remember right.

Rch - your psychosis thread is what got me off the rafters to start posting on this forum in the first place. Thanks for sharing your experiences, really.

RZ - couldn't agree more. I think those early, more experienced guys really set the tone and modelled "Forum Zen", being simultaneously helpful, courteous, patient and excited :)

Amped - that's always good advice. Getting mad is bad for the blood pressure :)

I do think that in addition to people who denigrate others as an expression of personal issues, there are also those who are simply a$$es.

nomoDinos | September 13, 2013

Leilani - thanks! Big fan of yours, congrats again on the new arrival!

Omar - had to give a little nod to the video-gamers out there ;)

Nu2Ecar | September 13, 2013

I like your attitude NoMoDinos. It's particularly welcome because it's not what I have come to expect on these boards.

Like many others, I have posted about the relative costs of longterm ownership. Myself and a few others have compared the costs of the S to ICE cars with much lower sticker prices. That's because we have never paid anywhere near $80-90K for a car. I've repeatedly pointed out that it was a huge compliment to Tesla that they could induce us to consider such a big premium.

Several people reacted with versions of If you have to ask the cost, then you should buy an ICE. That's what they said about yachting in Victorian times.

I don't want to associated with that sort of snobbery. Nor do I want to be associated with self-righteous environmentalists. The claim is absurd if the car is replacing a Porsche, an M5, an X5 or anything of similar or worse gas-consumption. Why the sudden conversion?

It's good to be reminded that not all Tesla owners are crass. Maybe owners who frequent BMW discussion groups are worse than those here, but Tesla owners could show less hubris.

RanjitC | September 13, 2013

Napoleon complex?

simplesolarinc | September 13, 2013

aren't all tesla owners tree-hugging and eco friendly people? We don't hate, we educate.

Neech | September 14, 2013

I'm with Tam on this. I have a 60 and have thought about having the 60 badge removed because I didnt want to look "cheap.". The 60 certainly wasn't cheap, but it is pretty damn awesome even with the smaller battery pack. I have had too many snarky comments from coworkers asking me how can I afford a car that they think cost over $100,000. I do let them know I knew about Tesla for many years and had planned ahead to buy the car. While my finances are none of their business, I decided to leave the 60 badge on as a sign that this awesome car isn't just for the mega-rich.

Thomas N. | September 14, 2013

That is unfortuante, Neech.

You still spent 60-80K (after rebates) for that beautiful S 60 which is nothing to sneeze at.

I wonder if you would have showed up in a nicely-equipped 5-Series or Lexus GS350 if they would have given you so many comments. You can easily spend 60K on a loaded 5-Series but because they're ubiquitous I doubt you'd hear a single comment.

dlewis | September 14, 2013

I got the base model as well. It was a stretch that took a lot of planning. Fortunately I was very early on putting my deposit and my other car was paid off so I was able to save for over 2 years. When I take people out and they are impressed with the car and everything it has, that is when I let them know that this is the BASE model, it only gets better. I think that helps a most of the people I have shown feel more comfortable. A lot of them are in similar positions to me where this is above their normal buying zone and felt if they went to the cheapest model they might not get a car as good. After hearing that mine is the cheapest it becomes more of a reality to them.

bigbit | September 14, 2013

Looking forward tomeeting you in person the 21st.

And as for the board, and the TMC as well, i keep learning more each time i come back to read more.... And it keeps me comming back....

NICE | September 14, 2013

Reading this thread made me realize I'm just like "That guy"! I stretched to buy my MS. Its the first base model car I have ever owned. So far it has been a fun to see what I can do with the money I saved. I now have brighter and whiter lights, best all window tint, bigger wheels, and bigger bass. My Tesla MS is special, unique, and just the way I like it.

larryh | September 14, 2013

Hi, my name is Larry and I have a 40.

(well, it does have the tech package and the pano, but still a 40)

T3SLA | September 14, 2013

Hi, my name is Ron and I have a 40.

It's about half empty now, or half full.

Still waiting on my model s. If the 40 was available when I ordered, I'd have gotten it. Instead I went for a p85. Smart for Elon, higher profit margin. What is the profit margin on the 6500$ plus. Must be good since they didn't increase the price of the option on August 1st.

nomoDinos | September 14, 2013

Nu2Ecar - sorry to hear you've had negative experiences on this forum. From my own experiences, I really do think that the vast majority of those here try their best to be helpful and contribute to meaningful discussions. I've really not seen the kind of denigrating comments from the fully loaded, "cherry/whipped cream/sprinkles/chocolate syrup on top" members to others for making more economical choices.

As for the associations, one of the great things about the model S forums is that they bring together such a diverse group of mixed nuts from all over the board. You've got left-wingers, right wingers, environmentalists, psuedo-environmentalists, oil barons, performance junkies, vegans and Texans. Diversity is such an overused, obnoxious catchphrase nowadays, but in this context I really do appreciate it. Based on the highly unscientific study that others on the forum have cited and mocked, most of us are big fans of finance, strip clubs, and weed. At the very least it makes for great entertainment :)

Ranjit - quite possibly. Certainly wasn't a happy fellow.

Simplesolarinc - :) We also welcome the high carbon footprint crowd. As others have mentioned, the Model S lets you have your cake, eat it, and then go and get some ice cream, too. (My second Ice cream reference... must be hungry)

Neech - definitely leave it on. It's merit badge for being smart with your money and getting the biggest bang for your buck. Except for the the high power/high performance set, everyone else is absolutely astonished by the 60's capabilities. Even the Porche 918 does not have the instant torque that you do. 100% of the Tesla experience for 50% of the price (of the fully loaded P85+), not bad.

Dlewis - keep up the recruiting! Things are always so much sweeter when you've worked hard and planned for it. I still remember exactly how I felt after scrimping and saving in college and finally being able to buy a car with my own money. No purchase has ever felt that sweet again (although I'm betting that my MS will take the top spot :)

Nice - NICE! Looks great with wheels and the tint. What rims are those?

Larry - "Hi, Larry." I guess its more accurate to say you have a restricted 60, and possibly a collector's item. You also have 40 more than me at the moment :(

T3SLA - Ron, feeling your pain on the waiting. I was planning on taking delivery two months ago, but due to an annoying refi situation, I can't run my credit, so I'm either going to have to wait until January or buying in cash (which would just kill me, especially with the awesome interest rates). At least we don't have to wait years like the first reservation holders!

Red Sage ca us | February 18, 2016

In the midst of my search for a post I started, ages ago, I keep coming across gems like this one!

BUMP-YOU... RIGHT-ON-UP... | February 18, 2016

hey, @NICE, how did you post that image? The rules say that the img tag is supported but it isn't.

Jewsh | February 18, 2016

Whoever made the comment above is a complete turd. If the guy didn't want to get in on the conversation, why waste the time replying with douchebaggery?

Anyways, hear-hear with respect to the Tesla forums being predominantly useful and polite.

Jewsh | February 18, 2016

Whoever made the comment above is a complete turd. If the guy didn't want to get in on the conversation, why waste the time replying with douchebaggery?

Anyways, hear-hear with respect to the Tesla forums being predominantly useful and polite.

Made in CA | February 18, 2016

@Red Sage - thanks tor digging this up. I

I agree - this is the best automotive forum I have ever followed. With others I quickly get discouraged with the lame comments and give up on them after a month or two. Not so here. It is great to see it is still true almost 3 years later.

PBEndo | February 19, 2016

a rather unfortunate time to double-post....

UnshodBob | February 19, 2016

@georgehawley - he posted that in September 2013... I guess the old img tag was "grandfathered" in?

EternalChampion | February 20, 2016

Tesla is definitely a different animal. My family has never simultaneously owned the same brand of vehicle. I typically buy whatever I feel is the prettiest, best functioning, semi-practical vehicle that suits our purposes. And 2-3 years later, move on to the next best thing.

Very shortly, we'll be an all-Tesla family, and I can't envision ever going back. I hope to put a million miles on my P85DL, although hope I can upgrade the battery to a P200DL over the decades that's going to take.

inconel | February 20, 2016

Will you be able to refrain from upgrading when the newer cars have full autonomous and many more cool features? :)

EternalChampion | February 20, 2016

We'll see.

I got rid of a perfectly good non-Tesla because it didn't have a heated steering wheel. Who knew I even needed that? It's always hard to predict what the next must have feature will be, but I'm feeling really good about what I have in my model S. | February 20, 2016

@Unshod: thanks. I thought there was a wormhole for images. I am awaiting Tesla's reply to my complaint about nonsupport of the img tag.

HenryT2 | February 23, 2016

I've got a 40. I always used to 'justify' my car by telling people that it was 'just a 40' and not much more than an entry level Lexus. It almost seemed to backfire because people seemed to think I was lying because they KNEW that Teslas cost AT LEAST $100K.

logicalthinker | February 24, 2016

+1, @OP Nomodinos.

But to be fair, **in a certain other forum, and on FB** I've seen some remarkably entitled d-bag posts by Tesla owners.