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Go for the throat tesla lol

Go for the throat tesla lol

Is it just me or does anybody else think tesla should go for the throat of the auto industry Time to get Fremont to 100% and step up gen3 you could be out there now competing with the Nissan leaf and beating them just with an extra 50 miles would be a huge difference to that market I just wish you guys would go get it
it's time to move on
Elon it's time to run one of the biggest companies in the world I know you can do it

ian t.wa.us | 11 février 2014

You seem to think building cars is like making coffee or baking bread. The Model E hasn't even been designed yet and they are having enough trouble supplying the Model S production line with enough batteries. Not to mention the power density of the batteries isn't high enough to give the E the range they want it to have.

Patience.

Mike T | 11 février 2014

Tesla is going for it! But they are using strategic steps rather than unrealistic time frames. Tesla is a game changer and the auto industry is way behind it's just taking time as noted above for domination. We will probably see this being fulfilled starting in 2017.

Brian H | 12 février 2014

Elon does not regard TM as an end, but as the means to an end. He would be just as happy to see the EV production of the majors rise enough in quantity and quality that Tesla could close its doors: "My work here is done" so he could focus on building up SpaceX to the point it could get to work on making humanity multi-planetary. If the majors keep dragging their feet, he'll grow Tesla big enough to satisfy the market on its own, but that's not his goal or first preference.

Bubba2000 | 12 février 2014

Just like advances in microprocessor tech, memory density, display tech were necessary to enable Apple to move from Newton PDA to the first iPhone... Tesla is dependent on key enabling technologies:
1. Battery energy density - Tesla is working with Panasonic with advanced battery chemistry and electrodes to increase energy density. Even a 30% increase in density will enable Model E, by making the whole auto lighter and itself reducing energy storage requirements to may be 40 KW-hr to give range of 200 miles. Use of stronger Al and other alloys could further reduce weight and energy demand.
2. $/KW-hr - I read that it costs Tesla $200/KW-hr installed. The giga factory could cut the cost by 30-40% due to efficient processes, scale, etc. $120/KW-hr would bring the cost of a 40 KW-hr pack to less than $5,000.

A base low end BEV could sell for $<25,000. That would disrupt the ICE market. I do not think GM, F, or even Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, etc are ready for this kind of disruption. They are barking at the wrong treed with Hydrogen fuel cells. Elon is moving as fast as the advances in tech allow. He is not lacking courage or judgement. However, this is not a dot com biz like Facebook, so it takes time and will be much bigger than Facebook if it disrupts the ICE industry as I expect. Tesla could be as large as Apple over time in terms of market cap.

Timo | 12 février 2014

Weird thing is that Tesla is not moving as fast as tech allows. They only use mature techs. It's the cost of the tech that is major factor here, not to be at the cutting edge of the techs.

...and they are still light years ahead of their competitions technically. If there is such a thing as competition.

Brian H | 14 février 2014

Bubba;
+1

Except that "barking at the wrong treed" is nonsensical. It's "barking up the wrong tree", referring to coon dogs. Which a "Bubba" should surely know.

church70 | 17 février 2014

They have 80% of the plant in the dark I think it's time to change that as far as the design of model E I'm sure they have a good idea what it is in fact I can argue they already have it they had a 40 kW model S IT was incredible value if they still had it I would have one for a second car I just sold my Nissan leaf it was our second car the range just wasn't good enough especially in the winter but an extra 50 miles would have done it
The battery capability they have it a 33 kw no supercharger no bells and whistles keep it as basic as possible now I know they miss out on some of the zevcredits maybe include supercharger in certain markets
And just putting it out there our first car is the model S almost 40,000KM in 10 months and we still haven't done our yearly drive to Florida yet hoping for spring break just need that supercharger north of Pittsburgh to be complete by March 7 fingers crossed

PS more bakers = more pies helps employment rate to just saying

lorenfb | 17 février 2014

@goneskiian

"Not to mention the power density of the batteries isn't high enough to give the E the range they want it to have."

Yes, there are a FEW on the forum that understand the market and
that don't expound in hyperbolic terms.

@Bubba2000
"Battery energy density - Tesla is working with Panasonic with advanced battery chemistry and electrodes to increase energy density. Even a 30% increase in density will enable Model E, by making the whole auto lighter and itself reducing energy storage requirements to may be 40 KW-hr to give range of 200 miles. Use of stronger Al and other alloys could further reduce weight and energy demand."

Like other market participants are 'asleep', right? Please!

"Tesla could be as large as Apple over time in terms of market cap."

Another out-of-touch comment.

church70 | 17 février 2014

I'm not sure why it needs to be 200 miles I think 160 is good enough think second car doesn't need to be first car market but it will be once people know it can be You understand
just get it done lol with more and more level III chargers coming to market hundred and 60 miles should be just fine for the great majority

ian t.wa.us | 17 février 2014

@church70 - Please use some punctuation. Some capitol letters would be nice too. It will make your posts much easier to read. I can hardly understand you. Thanks.

Elon has said the E will have a 200 mile range. Besides, if the 200 he's talking about is like the 300 the S has the real world range of the E will be about 160.

You clearly know nothing about how cars are produced. Again, it's not a latte they can whip out in a few minutes. They may have lots of extra space but it takes 6 months at least to have the forms for the presses made after they've finalized a design. Which they have not. Heck the presses they do have are busy stamping out S panels and soon, hopefully, X panels. Not to mention they only have enough equipment for one line, maybe two. They bought an empty factory, not one ready to push out 200k cars overnight. Do you know how much those presses and robots cost?

Chill out.

Timo | 17 février 2014

200+ miles or it is a city car. I think TM agrees. They actually saw this with Model S, they discontinued the 40kWh model because apparently demand was not high enough. Even with higher price tag bigger range weighted more for most people.

GenIII can probably get that real life 200+ mile with 40kWh battery because it is smaller car. With $150/kWh that's just $6000. Leaves plenty for rest of the car.

ian t.wa.us | 18 février 2014

+1 Timo

Joshua Burstyn | 18 février 2014

Agreed. Even if a <200 mile variant were out, few orders would be received. People want their cars to be flexible and have a buffer in terms of range.

Brian H | 18 février 2014

Elon felt the 40 wasn't a good enough car to put the TM logo on. In his opinion, branding = product quality and value/$. The Model E will qualify, where the 40kWh did not.

jk2014 | 18 février 2014

Model E will have a much greater range then 200 mi. Elon is under promising, to set up the over deliver surprise that we all love. Reality will be the current Model S max range or better. Folks, 200 mi is not compelling enough for Elon, come on now...

Do think the resale values for lease pricing will be significant when the Model E comes out. If banks can be convinced it will hold really well, could get that under $300/month level which would be very compelling. Might be possible since the demand will be very high for many years since supply won't catch up for a while (just like what is happening with the Model S resale right now). Can understand why Elon says he sees leasing being the future of most Tesla purchases...

church70 | 18 février 2014

Brian why did he think it wasn't good enough?

I don't know I wish I bought one first then bought the 85 because right now I would have a pretty awesome second car I thought the original story was there was no demand for it

I always thought it was too quick for that decision and still think it was a bad decision it fills the gap that is needed in the market and it could be a reality today or in six months lol jk I am pretty chill just say lol anyway just thought it was something to talk about

Iowa92x | 18 février 2014

A 40 kWh battery won't provide enough juice for 200 miles in the Model E. 55 kWh will get us close. Electric power scales differently than gas, I predict the E will be 15% more efficient than the S.

Interesting tidbit from Elon speaking in Oslo...the heavier AWD Model X will only lose 10% efficiency compared to the S. I suspect Tesla will compensate with a larger battery so it meets the same range goals as the S.

Timo | 19 février 2014

Lighter & smaller = less rolling resistance and better aerodynamics = smaller battery needed = even less weight. That's multi-hit to efficiency. 60kWh Model S gets 208 EPA, Model E will be very close to 200 miles with 40kWh, though with some calc, probably not quite. Maybe 45-50kWh will be enough.

lewille | 19 février 2014

First of all, hi everyone this is my first post here.

About the model E range, I do hope they will propose the same ranges option than the model S.
I do know that they will need to do so if they ever hope to sell it in Europe. As the european market is essentially turned towards BMW, Mercedes and other european brands and those will get the market of short EV range.
You know as well as I do, people like to keep their habbits and that goes for auto manufacturers too.
So in order to win over the competition Tesla cannot do the same, they HAVE to do better.

As for me if I see that I cannot have the same range as an S85 (doesn't matter if it cost 15k€ more than the base E model), I simply will not buy. I am not rich enough to have 2 cars (1 for travel, 1 for short commute).

Captain_Zap | 19 février 2014

@church70

Gen III is intended to be a first car instead of a second car.

It should be capable of performing as your only car if Tesla wants to meet their real objectives and take zero emission EVs to the masses by making an affordable, compelling BEV that is without compromise.

Rocky_H | 19 février 2014

Exactly, Zap. I think they would opt for ditching fancy options like Homelink, auto-presenting door handles, and power liftgates if it meant they could put that cost into the battery capacity to give more range.

Brian H | 20 février 2014

We didn't get to see much of the original 40kWh cells. The car underperformed, and the batteries were in too small volume to produce profitably.

Bottom line, though, is that Elon didn't feel it was worthy of TM's brand.