Came online in Model S Design Studio @ 4:45pm Atlantic Standard Time. There's another $15,000 I will need to put aside for my Signature Model X. The 90Kwh battery will be nice.
Doubtful giving the weight issue. Not sure the kiddies want to be in a rocket ship with Daddy!
There is, Musk said, it should bring 0-60 times to 3 seconds. Tesla will build a supercar beating SUV!
As a Mel Brooks film loving dork, I am enjoying all the Spaceballs references.
I guess they are reserving Plaid for the next Roadster.
As impressive as the acceleration is it's not all that practical. At this point I'd rather they just release the specs on X. The distractions coupled with the silence on the X make me wonder if we're in for yet another delay.
From today's blog post:
First, I should address something that might be on your mind, like: "Where the heck is the Model X and the Model 3!? You should really get on that." Don't worry, those remain our focus and good progress is being made on both. X is on track for first deliveries in two months and Model 3 in just over two years.
Elon Musk, CEO July 17, 2015
I have been badgering Elon about the X design studio. I guess others must be too.
Ludicrous mode in the X? That would be, well, ludicrous.
No kiddies to upset here! Bring on the ludicrous X!
And now that ludicrous mode and the 90KWH are out of the bag then there really is no reason to delay the design studio.
Give me MX100D.
Maybe in 2017 vperl. Elon said 5% per year. So 10 more kWh will take a couple years.
This new 90 pack with improved cell chemistry, brings up a some questions:
1. Is the 70 new cell chemistry too? If yes, does it sill have more cells than the 60? It should have, because it would be a 63, without. (Or is the 90 really a 100 in disguise? Will there be a "software upgrade"?)
2. Why bring out a new cell chemistry, if you would have to change it mid 16 again?
3. How do they build a 85 now? Is it electronically limited, does it use fewer cells, or does it use the old ones?
4. If 5% per year is true, where are the 10.25%, from the last 2 years? Or is it 5% per 3 years?
@ian, does that mean that we have to listen to vperl for two more years?
Unfortunately yes ken.
The 5% was an average. Elon stated that some years might not see any new batteries at all. In fact I think he even said there could be a 3 year dry spell, that battery would then be 15% more powerful than its predecessor.
@aesculus, we had a 2.5 year dry spell, right now. We just got a 5% increase...
When competing with the Cayenne Turbo or BMW M series, MB AMG SUV's, you have to beat them at their own game. I'm with the "bring on the Ludicrous" crowd. May not buy it but it should exist.
According to the full transcript it is coming in the X.
@raffael s, I think the clock starts now. No time credited for time served :-)
I think the range increase will be about 6.7%.
just started listening to the Q&A with Elon after the announcement.
Early tidbits: the X will get the 90 kWh battery, if not exclusively, at least as an option. There will also be a ludicrous mode in the performance model with 0-60 time of "3.3-ish".
If the 90kwh pack is using new cells, there is no reason why they should continue producing old ones as well. The 85 pack will stay as long as there are old cells left. I don't think the X will be getting the old ones. It would be interesting too, if the 90D weights the same as a 85D.
I suspect that these are still old cells, hence only a +5kWh increase from filling in all available space. I think when they manage to get next-generation cells, you'll be looking at 95-105kWh on the top end. Of course, this is just my theory from speculation on someone's hypothesis.
Apparently, the 90 kWh pack has 7,104 18650 cells, same as the 85 kWh pack. Panasonic has introduced some silicon into the anode to somehow increase the capacity by about 6%. One of the things about those little cells that blows me away is that Tesla can draw 20 amps out of them in short bursts.
Thanks George for finding a flaw in my theory from speculation on someone's hypothesis. I'll need to figure out where I went wrong.
However, I don't understand how a silicon anode could help capacity, since the anode is only the negative terminal that doesn't really store any electrons. I know that the terminals get gummed up (or broken down) which limits the life of the battery, but the electrons are stored in the electrolytes.
Anyway, I'm sure more information will come out in the near future.
@george: that hasn't been confirmed jet, has it? They could be using fewer cells and making lots of profit by making us pay $3000 for it...
The Amp thing is something I am surprised about, too. Drawing 1500 Amps at 400 Volts, means 600kW, thats more than 800hp... I haven't seen the P85D before, hit the 480kW mark on the display! Even with inverter losses and everything, they could use all of the 760 motor horsepower.
@vandacca | JULY 20, 2015
Watch Prof. Jeff Dahn's video on battery life. Basically the anode (and cathode IIRC) get coated w/ elements that breakdown during charge/discharge cycles. That (and a few other unwanted side effects) are the reason why rechargeable batteries don't last forever.
Jeffrey, I did watch Prof Dahn's video and found it fascinating. I'm sure that gummed-up terminals applies to most modern-day Li-ion batteries. However, I recall from many years ago, they tried anodes/cathodes (with different chemistry) and the opposite was true, they degraded and broke apart. So, either can happen, depending on the materials being used. Today's batteries appear to be a gumming up issue.
@Dan: I think one of the tricks with electrode capacity is to design them to have more surface area per unit volume so that there are more available termination points for ions and electrons. I'm not sure how that is accomplished with adding silicon. Maybe it has to do with Silicon having a smaller covalent radius than Carbon and more electrons in the outer shell?. Haven't a clue which is why I spend my days hitting golf balls and softballs and not designing batteries...
George, a few decades ago (when I was more into this stuff than today), I recall them experimenting with (either Silicon or Carbon) tree/forest structures to increase surface area. However, they were very brittle and longevity was a problem.
Not sure how they do that today, but maybe you should get into designing batteries - at least as a hobby. ;-)
Ludricous add on makes only sense if you can take the car on racetrack. As long as the car, X or S cannot be driven on racetrack, there is no point even to compare these cars to other performance cars. Yes, P85D is a nice top product, nice speed and traction, this you can compare to other similar ICE-s. Reducing 0-60 time from 3.2 to 2.8 makes any sense only for racetrack. I hope nobody uses it in public traffic for safety reasons.
@krissu, it's the 0-25 mph time of 0.914 seconds I will enjoy the most.
Oh, plus another 1.5 seconds to confirm no one is trying the run the light. Safety first.
0-60 does give you the bragging rights. It will be nice to see that the Mustang or Ferrari sitting next to you at the light refrain from racing the engine. 50-70 is more important in the real world which I believe got improved with the ludicrous mode too.
I believe that those who were so concerned about being 'walked down' over a 1/4 mile sprint will at least see that other cars have a bit further to 'walk' over that distance in order to make it look good before they are beaten by the Tesla Motors product.
But it would be really cool if a Model X, towing a 911, could still beat a Q7 through the 1/4 mile.
Red - That's funny. What a great video that would be.
How about regen? Would a car equipped with Ludicrous option also have higher regen power?
That would make sense for me. Going up some of these mountain passes is going to be fun. Especially if going downhill refills my battery...
Had great fun in my Q7 with trailer up in the mountains. Careful in the curves, but as soon as there's a straight line... The MX should be even better. When it shows up.
I think that's a possibility. A quick Google says a 911 is 3,000-3,600 pounds. A car trailer is 1,500-2,300 pounds. So let's call that 5,000 total.
Q7 is 15.7 in the quarter, according to Google.
According to https://robrobinette.com/et.htm with the wheel horsepower set to 730 and weight at 4900, it shows 10.98 (ludicrous mode p90d), at 5200 lbs (model X guess weight) it shows 11.2. That may be a little quick for an X. At 10,200 lbs it shows 14.0.