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Any Concerns with Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance?

Any Concerns with Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance?

Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance
Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance is designed to steer a Tesla vehicle back into the driving lane if our system detects that it is departing its lane and there could be a collision, or if the car is close to the edge of the road. This feature will automatically be enabled at the beginning of every drive, but can be turned off for a single drive by going to the Autopilot Controls menu.

At Tesla, improving safety is our primary goal, even after a customer purchases their car. That’s why we’re introducing these features beginning today via a free over-the-air software update, starting with Model 3 owners and gradually expanding to all cars that were built after October 2016. This is just another way that we are helping to protect Tesla drivers and passengers, and others on the road, every day.

THE ABOVE IS DIRECTLY FROM TESLA'S WEBSITE.

Sounds like a great safety feature. Will be interesting see how it is in the real world. If I'm reading it correctly, it will turn the car in the opposite direction you are going if it "thinks" you shouldn't be changing lanes and you didn't use your blinker. Says it will only do so if it can't detect your hands on the wheel, so I guess that's OK. Not sure I agree with not having a setting to be able to have the feature turned off all the time rather than having to do it every time you get in the car.

In L.A. Traffic, there are times you have to get a little aggressive. To many L.A. drivers, seeing a blinker just means "oh s#*t, speed up". I'm one that feels nobody should ever have to hit their brakes for me changing lanes. Thus, I make sure I'm going as fast or faster than the car I'm changing lanes in front of. If everyone thought like that, we'd have far less than traffic. There are times where you see an opening coming based on the flow of traffic in each lane. I've already had the warning come up because it thinks I'm going to run into the car in front of me, when in reality, I'm just going for the opening in the lane next to me. I don't mind it because it's just an audible warning that can be very useful when it's for the right reason. However, if the car ever tries to turn the car back the other way when I'm making that maneuver, it would be a real problem. So hoping it's not too aggressive. Will be interesting to see.

I already can't use the auto lane change feature anymore with Nav on Autopilot. Car randomly wants to change lanes when there's absolutely no reason to. Finally had to turn it off. I think I preferred the blinker confirmation more. At least based on where the features are at today in the real world. I know many probably wonder what the heck I'm doing because the car puts on the blinker on its own, then starts to change lane for no reason I can understand. So I grab the wheel and take over to stay in my lane. But the false blinker and sudden swerve must puzzle some drivers around me.

One last note, found it odd that Tesla would advertise that Model 3's get the feature first. Then, they'll roll it out to the people who spent twice as much money on their cars when they're ready to. Seems like that might tick off some S & X owners that were actual early adopters?? If they wanted to do that, I probably wouldn't have advertised what order its going out in. As a Model 3 owner for the time being, I can't complain, but it did seem odd. Tesla needs to remember to show their love to their early customers and those that up-scaled to an S or X, their highest profit margin cars.

carlk | 2 mai 2019

Turn it off if you don't think you can handle it.

2015P90DI | 2 mai 2019

That's the point I'm making. Please read before commenting. You CAN'T simply turn it off permanently. Have to do it every time you drive.

hannes | 2 mai 2019

It is going to be very interesting to learn more about these new features

carlk | 3 mai 2019

If it can not be turned off permanently then it means you need it for better safety.

71snaoj | 3 mai 2019

I don't know if it is appropriate to say someone *needs* it for better safety. That all depends on the driver. If the cars were smarter than the drivers, we'd already have Full Self Driving. We are not there yet. I am assuming it will be like regular autopilot and easily overridden by drivers force on the wheel. But as anyone who has used Auto Pilot knows, when disengaging autopilot by using the steering wheel to do so, there is always an abrupt swerve. Maybe not much, but it exists none the less. While nobody should be cutting things that closely, if someone is doing so, that extra inch or two could become critical. It says it will only do so when it detects that your hands are not on the steering wheel. But many have commented that they still get the Apply Force to Wheel warning even when their hands are on the steering wheel. If that ends up being the case with this feature, pretty sure Tesla will have to change it pretty quickly and at least offer an option to turn off the feature. The catch here being that it defaults to on, even when you do not have Auto Pilot engaged. These cars were sold as being capable of Full Self Driving, but still as cars driven by the driver. Tesla cannot all of sudden change the car that people already own to disagree with the driver and instill Auto Pilot steering functions against the owner's wishes. Especially for those that did not purchase Auto Pilot at all. I assume it will not be an issue. But do agree, the way they worded the release notes makes it sound like they are saying the car will go against your wishes if it thinks you are doing something wrong. If that ends up being the case, then it would be an issue. I am confident that will not be the case.

Wilber | 3 mai 2019

While the article quotes Tesla that it checks for hands on wheel for regular Lane Departure Warning, it does not explicitly say so for this new Emergency version. Sure hope it does AND does it well. Would not like a bunch of false positives for a feature that you would have to turn off everytime you start the car if you dont like it. I permenanetly turned off regular Lane Departure warning after i purchasd the car because of too many false positives.

billtphotoman | 3 mai 2019

I also experience Lane Departure Warning falsing a lot. There are 2 specific scenarios:
1) Road construction scenarios where there are temporary lane markers which are often difficult to distinguish from the permanent markers
2) Two lanes merge into one and depending on how they have the lane markers laid out the car ends up straddling them.
Both of these happen enough that I turn off lane departure warning unless I will be going on a long road trip.

HighlandPony | 3 mai 2019

This feature seems comparable to the lane assist in my RAV4. It beeps and gently nudges you back into your lane if you start drifting out, but it is easily overcome. I have never felt that it was a problem or led to any kind of unsafe condition. Maybe somewhat annoying at times.

kevin_rf | 3 mai 2019

Not being a speed racer, I have a tendency to drive in the right lane, it will be interesting to see how it reacts to ramps on the lunar simulator,... eeer Mass roads now that we are in pothole season.

andrew | 3 mai 2019

I have grave concerns about this. #1, I have to remember to turn off for EACH drive and I might forget. In So Cal I can imagine driving in the fast lane along a concrete barrier and needing to hug the barrier to avoid something in the lane or even scoot over for a motorcycle and get close to the wall/barrier.

Imagine the car moving itself back to the middle of the lane and hitting the very object I was trying to avoid?!

I'm fine with having this feature as an option; it should just be able to be disabled permanently without having to disable it each drive.

EVRider | 3 mai 2019

I think the OP is combining two separate features into one. There are two new features in the article: the first one (Lane Departure Avoidance) intervenes if you start to leave your lane without a turn signal, and it also checks for your hands on the wheel — this can be permanently enabled or disabled. The second one (Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance) is the one that takes over if you drift into another lane and a collision is imminent or you get too close to the edge of the road — that one is on by default and has to be disabled for each drive.

TexasBob | 3 mai 2019

"... makes it sound like they are saying the car will go against your wishes if it thinks you are doing something wrong. If that ends up being the case, then it would be an issue."

This is how nearly all active safety features work. AEB hits the brakes even when you are pressing the accelerator. The Subaru disengages your accelerator if you press it and there is an obstacle in front of you (so does the Model 3). The entire point of these systems is to override the driver when the driver is doing something stupid. If it does not override the driver it is just a warning system.

Yes, that means if you are trying to swerve to avoid a pothole the car might force you back into its path rather than let you swerve into another vehicle's lane.

And, yes, in today's world the car you were swerving into *probably* would have veered to avoid you so you could avoid both the pothole and a collision.

So yes, you're going to hit the pothole, have to replace a rim, and come back here complaining about the stupid system.

So, yes, they need to allow people to disable because the complaining is going to be intolerable.

Pepperidge | 3 mai 2019

@EVRider agree. Elon is not that stupid.

howard | 3 mai 2019

andrew +1

Given the issues with basic functionality of the advanced driving systems, I for one do not to use them, and won't until they have been fully developed and are mature. This is still very much in the beta testing realm. This should be my choice to select on a permanent basis. Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance should not be a turn off every time I get in the car to drive away. If this is the case I may need service to roll my software back to 8.5. I have been in Andrews example several times needing to get within inches of the edge to let idiot motorcyclist scream by. If my Tesla swerved back on its own and even if it did not come into contact with the motorcyclist but caused him to panic and crash it would be on me. Tesla's current systems are not that good based on my driving experiences.

lbowroom | 3 mai 2019

Seatbelts are dumb, I can hold onto the wheel or be thrown clear of the accident and be fine. A seatbelt is going to trap you under water so you'll drown. Helmets cause neck injuries when you crash your motorcycle, it's safer not to wear one.

See where I'm going here?

howard | 3 mai 2019

No, must be your own path.

lbowroom | 3 mai 2019

Silly fringe arguments against life saving technologies that idiots repeat

howard | 3 mai 2019

I agree!!!!

calvin940 | 3 mai 2019

Based on the description of the behaviour of each of these features, I don't have any concerns. I look forward to seeing them in action.

Kary993 | 3 mai 2019

I think these promote good driving habits. For example, you decide to change lanes and don't use your blinker but obviously have your hands on the wheel because you are changing lanes. Los Angeles traffic is rough for sure as no one uses a blinker because when you do they shutdown your opening, so consequently no one signals their intent they just abruptly cut in.

I think these new features are good and can't wait to try them, but first need the update tonight that is waiting.

Kahn | 3 mai 2019

i have grave concerns for one it really doesnt know when i have my hands on the wheel. i get the warnings all the time even when my hands are on the wheel. you have to remember to provide torque, and just haveing one hand on the wheel is not enough in my car. second many times it doesnt even knwo the correct lane configuraiton. it has told me there was another lane next to me when there wasnt.. just a wider shoulder for a few yds.. it even wanted me to go into one of those lanes at one pt.

2015P90DI | 3 mai 2019

@lbowroom, I don't think that's the case. The safety tech is GREAT, but clearly these cars are not ready to handle themselves on the road without a driver. The point is, drivers are still needed. Drivers still drive better than a computer (at least most drivers do!). AP is a great system, but we all know it's far, far, far from perfect and still makes a lot of mistakes. I think the point is, it should still be optional based on today's technology. Some drivers do push the limits of space. Sometimes you need to push the limits of space. In those cases, you expect to do what you need to do without interference. For drivers that do cut things close, the surprise of all of a sudden having the car go against you could create issues. I said "could", not would. Time will tell. But even stiffening up the steering wheel for a second could surprise a driver and distract him/her in close situations. All that's being said is that drivers/owners, should have the option to turn it off permanently if they're not satisfied with how it performs. As we all know, all things AP are Beta, that means it's not ready for prime time. Forced features shouldn't be forced until their are non-Beta and 100% ready for real world use. Anything considered "Beta" should be optional. Going forward, now that Tesla mandates that you get AP with any new Model 3, people will be able to make their decisions accordingly. For all existing owners, the cars were purchased with the option to not use AP features. Those cars need to stay that way. They can do what they want with new cars and people can decide based on what the car is today.

twistedskipper | 22 mai 2019

I just installed 2019.16.2 and I can tell you that the non-emergency Lane Departure Avoidance is very gentle and easily overcome if you just didn't signal before changing lanes. It will not "force" you back into your original lane. Gentler than the force required to take the car out of Autosteer.

I don't think there will be any trouble with hands-on-wheel detection if you are intentionally changing lanes, since you will be exerting force on the wheel already. The hands-on-wheel detection is likely there to help determine if you are maybe departing your lane because you are asleep.

I haven't experienced the EMERGENCY Lane Departure Avoidance, yet, so I do not know if the force required to override it will be greater than for the non-emergency version. I'm not sure how to test it, but I guess an empty multi-lane road with a friend in another car might work.

FISHEV | 22 mai 2019

"Sounds like a great safety feature. Will be interesting see how it is in the real world."

There is no lane keeping in my Model 3 during normal driving. Car is not 10 days old so latest model, latest software.

Like blind side indicators and cross traffic indicators, the lack of a lane drift warning during regular driving is something Tesla should fix and looks like they are trying to fix it but limited solutions since there no indicator light in the mirror assembly. A warning on the screen would be OK but not a great solution since it requires taking one's eyes off the road.

calvin940 | 22 mai 2019

@FISHEV

"the lack of a lane drift warning during regular driving is something Tesla should fix ..."

There is one already during regular driving. Well before these updates, the steering vibration option has always been working for me if I hadn't given an indicator. Maybe you just have yours turned off.

jamilworm | 22 mai 2019

Wow, it's amazing how polarizing even the simplest of posts can become. It seems that every other post on here turns into name calling.

In any case, I have only had one experience with Lane Departure Avoidance (I don't know if it was the emergency variety or not). The offramp that I take every day going to work ends in 2 lanes, one for going straight and one for turning right. The single offramp lane becomes the left lane and then the right lane branches off to the right. It's not uncommon for traffic waiting to go straight or turn left backs up beyond the point where the right turn lane starts, so I often drive onto the shoulder to get around traffic and into the right turn lane. There was one instance recently where I was driving onto the shoulder and the car beeped and tried to steer back into the lane (which probably would have caused me to rear-end the car at the back of the line). I had to force the steering wheel over to complete my maneuver; it basically felt like what you need to do to override autosteer.

As I said, I don't know if this was regular LDA or emergency, but I am very certain that my hands would have been constantly detected, so maybe that means it was emergency. On the other hand there wasn't really risk of collision, but maybe the car thought I was driving off the road or going to hit the side guard rail.

That is my only experience with it, which could be interpreted as dangerous but it wasn't a big deal to override it and I'll leave the feature enabled because I think the upside still probably outweighs the risk.

twistedskipper | 22 mai 2019

@jamilworm: That sounds like the emergency variety since there was an audible alert.

wiboater4 | 23 mai 2019

I like that they have added the feature because I use auto steer a lot and once in awhile I catch myself thinking I have it on and don't . Usually catch myself before drifting into oncoming lane but this adds a little safety against that. I am curious how it will handle going around people walking( I usually give them a wide berth) and cars that are parked partially in the lane but I imagine Tesla is going to account for that . We need to use it for awhile for Tesla to get the feedback in shadow mode. Just be alert since it is new for Tesla's.

irmaramos2009 | 23 mai 2019

Just a heads up. I've had 3 false positive "Emergency Lane Departure" events in the last 24 hours. Last one this evening, it jumped at an incomplete arrow in the center of the offramp I had just entered about 5 seconds before. Was in the center of the lane, not near the edge, car beeped, flashed something red and steered right simultaneously.
Have it captured on 3 views of teslacam.

WCovington | 23 mai 2019

I purchased a M3LR RWD about a year ago and purchased a second M3 LR AWD for my wife last week. When I called my Insurance Company (Liberty Mutual) to add the second M3 to my auto policy one of the questions the agent asked me was: "does the new car have Emergency Lane Departure?" She then expanded by telling me the car had to be able to actually move the car back into the proper lane, not just give a warning. When I told her it did have this feature, my premium was reduced. Then I told her my existing M3 now also has this feature. When I explained to her it was a software update she said: "wow, I have got to get one of those cars!". The point being you should let your insurance company know that your car now has this feature - It may save you a little money.

ebmcs03 | 23 mai 2019

@WCovington who’s your insurance? I want discount. My premium went up 60% this year. Ridiculous.

RedTeslaModel3 | 24 mai 2019

Yesterday i was on the right lane with another brand new model 3 behind me. There was a 2 x 4 in the road on. Both of us tried to move our car a little bit off our lane to avoid hitting this. Our cars took control and pulled back into lane to hit this 2x4.

I am turning off this feature for now. I would turn it on next time I go back from a beach trip.

ODWms | 24 mai 2019

Imagine my surprise a few months back when I was driving and not one but two sledgehammers appeared in the road ahead of me. Must have fallen from a work truck. With almost zero reaction time I was able to veer sharply and avoid one by inches, and then straddle the next. With the ride height of this car so low, I was thankful there was no contact at all.

ODWms | 24 mai 2019

Imagine my surprise a few months back when I was driving and not one but two sledgehammers appeared in the road ahead of me. Must have fallen from a work truck. With almost zero reaction time I was able to veer sharply and avoid one by inches, and then straddle the next. With the ride height of this car so low, I was thankful there was no contact at all.

msivanvugt | 24 mai 2019

The emergency lane departure avoidance is also a big problem in some European countries (Belgium, Netherlands, probably quite a few others) with country roads that have lines about a meter from the edge to get people to drive in the middle as much as possible while still allowing them to pass opposite traffic by moving over those lines. The goal is to reduce road maintenance with cars avoiding the edges 90% of the time, only going near the edge to pass opposite traffic.

Here's an example: https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.2284389,4.9498546,3a,75y,237.64h,83.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1miFbDfuBkiu9UEq2lMTYw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Before the new "feature", the steering wheel would vibrate when you crossed these lines. Now, the car will actually steer to the left towards opposite traffic! This is not speculation, it actually does it! Very scary and completely unsafe.

Same for a similar type of road with "bicycle suggestion lanes" like here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4409837,5.3588111,3a,75y,35.72h,80.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sA2gTEkKG9KH-weR8xiO9Aw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DA2gTEkKG9KH-weR8xiO9Aw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D331.24557%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

Note that these are not real bike lanes, you are allowed to drive over them (and indeed, need to when there's opposite traffic), but emergency lane departure avoidance didn't get the memo.

Neomaxizoomdweebie | 24 mai 2019

If your weak chicken arms can't overpower the nudge that this feature gives you then maybe you should hit the gym or drive a leaf. JFC!

peldor427 | 24 mai 2019

I've tested the new lane departure avoidance and it seems to work well. It gives an assertive but not overpowering correction to move back into the lane when I purposely let it start to drift out. It was easy to negate if desired. I didn't intentionally test the emergency lane departure avoidance but I let it drift out again when there was a car about 10 car lengths ahead in the opposing lane of traffic. It was a low speed road so it didn't seem that close to me but it was enough for the car to sound the alert and correct the steering. Still early for a final opinion but so far I like it. I have not found any 2x4s or sledgehammers in the road for testing yet, but based on the feel I'm pretty sure my steering in response to that event would be more than strong enough to over power it and avoid the obstacle.

NEKEV | 24 mai 2019

Just got the update last night and on my morning commute today it triggered (inconveniently) three times. First was on a gravel road where it tried to send me into the middle of the road for no apparent reason, out of my 'lane' and into the center. Second was when I eased over to towards the shoulder (but still in the traveled lane) to allow a little more room for an oncoming truck that was riding the center line as it was going around a cyclist. Third time was when I moved slightly onto the shoulder to avoid a large pot hole. All in all, not ready for prime time, or at least not for my real-world driving situations. It's very annoying that it has to be turned off every time you get in the car.

hollandgavin | 24 mai 2019

I for one will not be installing this update until there is an option to permanently turn it off.

Bennettb619 | 24 mai 2019

Just got my update and while driving to daughter’s had a ding sound, a notice too fast to read, and a light push back into my lane even though I didn’t have anything special turned on. I must have drifted to the right. I was really happy to have that.

Jsalem | 26 mai 2019

Got the 2019.16.2 update last week.
Driving on the secondary roads in New England, the lane departure features are at best extremely annoying and I suspect they significantly increase the danger of a head-on collision.
My experiences are similar to NEKEV, msivanvugt, RedTeslaModel3 , irmaramos2009 above.

hcdavis3 | 26 mai 2019

This is not a “feature “ it’s a bug. If you cannot permanently turn it off, which you can’t, it is a bug. Please Tesla, if you wish to keep this, please give us the ability to permanently turn it off.

dwakelee | 26 mai 2019

Just got 16.2 last week, and the following day had a false warning and forced centering. Traveling on a road with 1 lane in each way. Opposing traffic was a bit close to the center line, so I moved to the right. This triggered the warning and centering - actually moving the car closer to the oncoming traffic I was distancing from. Quite disturbing when it happened - now I know to watch for it. Couldn't log a bug report because LTE was down, as it is often (typically 2 full days out of a month).

Perhaps limiting to divided highways would be a slight improvement, but this doesn't seem ready for prime time. Need a way to permanently shut this off - totally not trusting it currently.

kaushal | 26 mai 2019

@dwakelee I have had similar experience. curiously though, it has happened twice at exact same segment of the road, could be a bad map or something. guess I will be more vigilant when driving through the area in the future.

LA-Fohlen | 26 mai 2019

I also got some annoyance with the feature here on smaller cross country roads here in Texas up to a point when the car tried to steer away from the side of the road with the problem that there was traffic coming the opposite direction.

Slonkis | 26 mai 2019

I just drove 200 miles between Long Island and Upstate NY with both features turned on, and to me, the experience is positive overall. I've learned that I actually drift over the lines more often than I thought, and I don't use the blinker 100% of the time. I think the lane departure features will make my driving safer in the long run. Time will tell.

Techy James | 26 mai 2019

I have tested in just to see how it works. I set it to Alert but left box for assist unselected. These a re the test I performed:
1) Steered towards the edge of lane when I was sure there was no one in other lane. The alert here was only the original Steering wheel vibration. But was unhindered moving into the other lane.
2) Steered toward right Solid White line indicating edge of Road, Just as before I was able to cross with the same warning as Test 1.
3) Instead of steering towards lane marker on 2 lane road, I allowed the car to drift toward right end of lane, and about the time I got to the lane marker, the car gave audio alert, with the Red flashing steering wheel similar if it wants you to take over from AutoPilot. The unexpected part here since I didn't select Assist, was it actually steered the car back towards the middle of the lane.

twistedskipper | 27 mai 2019

@Techy James: If it sounds an audible alert, then it is the Emergency version which pays no attention to your Assist setting, which is for the non-emergency version.

Ron.Olsberg | 27 mai 2019

If I understand the Techy_James post above, it looks like it is responding as I would expect. It allows the driver to steer out of the way of danger but if the car drifts slowly out of the lane boundaries it steers back into the center of the lane (I would assume only if the left/right cameras decide it is safe to do so?). From what I have read here on this forum, it sounds like some insurance companies give a discount if the car has this feature. If this option could be turned off, the insurance companies that give a discount or give an automatic discount because of this feature might take exception. Since it is a brand new (mandatory?) feature,I am sure it probably needs some further tweaking.

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