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New model S prototype at the ring?

New model S prototype at the ring?

Why in the heck would Tesla try and play the Porsche game at the track when it makes no difference? Porsche is selling $150 to $200k EVs to people that....well don’t know any better. Entering into this, which all car manufacturers that do will not post a time unless they know they can beat it. EVs have yet to be about track lap times and beat most super cars in many areas for a fraction of the cost. I am sure Elon thinks he can beat the Taycan and test his new three motor drive train but what a huge waste of money when the Tesla cause is not that.

Magic 8 Ball | 13 septembre 2019

Elon is Tesla marketing. He is known for publicity stunts and he likes fast cars, rockets, trains, etc. What is spent on these stunts, for publicity, is nothing compared to billions the others spend on ads. This will be very entertaining and the cost is next to nothing when you put it in perspective.

Kary993 | 13 septembre 2019

I would agree with that. Unfortunately EM is playing with Porsche who know how to win. EM has more to lose than Porsche.

bjrosen | 13 septembre 2019

Tesla has always made performance a major differentiator. They've relied on drag racing times up until now but Porsche has raised the bar by making tract times the benchmark. Before Tesla people thought of golf carts when they heard electric car, Tesla changed that. Now when you hear Tesla you think of sedan that can smoke a Dodge Hellcat without producing any actual smoke. To keep the perception of Tesla has the highest performing cars they have to out perform Porsche. Also as EVs evolve they have to show that they can run at sustained high speeds, not just do 0-60 in a couple of seconds.

There is also one more important thing they are doing by adding Plaid mode. They are differentiating the Model S from the Model 3. The Model 3 has killed Model S sales because the S isn't enough better than the 3 to justify the huge price premium. Yes the S is bigger, and it has a better suspension, but is that really enough to justify a 30-50K premium over the 3?. By putting in a third engine, and I suspect some other things such as Maxwell supercaps, and setting records at well known tracks they put the luster back into the S. They will be able to price the Plaid versions close to the base Taycan and then use that to pull up the demand for the normal Model S's.

Magic 8 Ball | 13 septembre 2019

Tesla won't lose anything, this poker match will most likely be drawn out for a while. I agree there might be a dichotomy between sustainable future and building "super EV's" but people like fast cars and they draw attention to cars being sold based on same tech.

It is a good thing, overall, for EV's and I don't think Musk is as naive as you may think.

lbowroom | 13 septembre 2019

"the Tesla cause is not that"

Maybe not to you. I Bought my Model 3 for the performance and low operating cost, not the "mission"

slingshot18 | 13 septembre 2019

I bought it for performance AND the mission. Keep up the good work, Elon.

WantMY | 13 septembre 2019

So why not bring great current production Model S P100D? It would help with flagging sales of S and X. What is wrong with current generation?

JAD | 13 septembre 2019

Hmm, Tesla spends a few hundred thousand on development costs and gets millions in free PR in addition to what they learn from development. Seems like a good deal to me win or lose, but if they actually beat the Taycan Turbo S time, it would be huge.

I hate to say it, but Seeking Alpha had a 'good???' article. Among other things, they pointed out the Model S time at Laguna beat the Jaguar 18 time at Laguna by a second while the Jaguar beat the Taycan time by 24 seconds at the Ring. Not apples to apples, but it does make it seem more reasonable for the Tesla to have a decent chance of at least being really close, if not significantly faster.

WantMY | 13 septembre 2019

@JAD So now, that everybody knows Tesla is going to introduce Model # P100D+ maybe in a year. Why would anyone in right state of mind buy current underperforming models, knowing better one is coming!. This is a recipe to decimate almost a year of revenue on existing production models sales. This is the reason all manufacturer keep this thing under wrap of secrecy. Makes no business sense at all.

JAD | 13 septembre 2019

A ~$150k ultra performance Plaid version is coming, that is not what most people want. I would certainly prefer the standard long range which won't get 3 motors and plaid, so why wait?

Sarcasm to follow! You know what, I heard rumors that Porsche may also update their cars next year with new features, maybe more power, and Audi as well. Wait, doesn't every company update their cars every year? Why will this kill Tesla when I have already seen spy shots of the new Porsche Turbo for 2020 and the GT4RS and yet they can still sell the old 2019's?

WantMY | 13 septembre 2019

"A ~$150k ultra performance Plaid version is coming, that is not what most people want." Do you have anything to support this claims? Musk said it will cost less than Taycan - the fact. P100D buyers want "Performance" - it should not be too ludicrous to assume.

lbowroom | 13 septembre 2019

more sarcasm toward wantmy

Oh no, Tesla screw up big time this time! Surely they will be out of business soon making better and better cars! Why didn't they just make plaid car for half price in 2012? Then they be big hit for sure!

WantMY | 13 septembre 2019

"Musk said it will cost less than Taycan" I am sure he did not mean less by 1 cent - it would not attract any future buyers, may be delay a bit.

WantMY | 13 septembre 2019

I am simply asking what would be the reason behind this way early disclosure of information? I want to know your take on it. How it would help to improve current situation?

Bighorn | 13 septembre 2019

It's an awesome marketing opportunity to play up a fresh rivalry with an iconic brand. Nobody should underestimate Tesla, especially in a novel technology. Porsche doesn't have any magic sauce to contend with the limitations of battery discharge rates. Very few people spring for the top of the line model, if you look at sales figures. It will have a halo effect for the other Model Ses. It may have potential Porsche buyers thinking twice. I think the Raven is pretty compelling especially if one has already gotten the need for headache-inducing acceleration out of their system.

WantMY | 13 septembre 2019

over 30,000 Cayman orders suggest otherwise. Folks looking for performance are willing pay for it. As we know now, Cayman is still tested on the ring. I am pretty sure they would use heavily modified currently produced model (production started on Monday) to set even better time record right after Tesla would spill the beans. So how would it help after all?

Captain_Zap | 13 septembre 2019

PCA club racers own Teslas. Porsches arrive at the track in trailers while their drivers arrive in Teslas. What a fun and rewarding technological challenge! Locally the tracks have a nice long row of HPWCs. Speed is speed and it all makes news/PR. Ultimately you can chalk up the work to product development.

WantMY | 13 septembre 2019

"I think the Raven is pretty compelling especially if one has already gotten the need for headache-inducing acceleration out of their system." - it was not compelling enough to bring it to the "ring". And if it is really this good - it would burry Cayman! and Tesla would sell 30,000 more Model S P100D, at the expense of Porsche. But it is not what is happening.

Bighorn | 13 septembre 2019

Most people don’t want or need a 2 second car ever. Plenty of old timers, myself included, are thinking about adding a Raven. I had a Cayman S, but I think you’re confused about the nomenclature. A small percentage of the 30,000 not orders, but tiny deposits will translate into sales. Feels like troll remedial school is in order.

WantMY | 13 septembre 2019

"but tiny deposits will translate into sales." you making this claims based on Tesla Model 3 reservations, or you just pull this from under you nails?

Techy James | 13 septembre 2019

@Kary993 Please kindly move this discussion to either General or Model S forum. I can assure you no Model 3 buyer going to trade out the Model 3 for a car that can quickly exceed 200K. A Porchse buyer is not the same buyer as a Model 3 buyer. They will buy the Porchse because they want a Porchse and the fact now they can now choose an suitable Electric vehicle is better for everyone.
I think it's great they made a true track car, but for me even if I was in market for 200K+ car, I think I would hold out for the Roadster 2.0. Better performance, longer range, and same 200K starting price tag.

lbowroom | 13 septembre 2019

Someone’s campaigning for the top troll spot. Total amateur though.

spuzzz123 | 13 septembre 2019

Oh man Lbowroom he’s been one of the top dogs before. He went by “wantm3” and pretended for awhile to be a reservation holder and huge fan and excited about getting his 3. I think he even met up with phillygal at a showroom or delivery and then claimed to be outraged at the design (no hatch) and initial pricing. Changed his name openly, so as to await the improved design. He went on a troll campaign that would make fish blush for about 6 months. Predicted imminent financial collapse, model 3 production levels would never approach a fraction of where it is now. Was wrong about so many things sort of had to fade away. But it was he, Shock, and mos6507 that ruled the troll kingdom. Now all 3 are part timers who pop in for occasional cameos.

walnotr | 13 septembre 2019

Cameos or alter egos?

kaffine | 13 septembre 2019

People complain when Tesla doesn't announce upgrades ahead of time now they are complaining that they are announcing upgrades in advance.

Ross1 | 13 septembre 2019

The old maxim: win on Sunday, sell on Monday

JAD | 13 septembre 2019

WantMy, Musk said the plaid would cost significantly more than current ludicrous. Might it be $130k, sure. Still even Porsche only hopes to sell about 20,000 Taycans of all types, including their cheap versions per year. The market for the about $150k supercar is pretty small.

I have a serious need for speed, but neither the Taycans or S are real sports cars. They are very fast, but too hard on tires etc. My 3P is amazing and kills a Cayman on lap time, but my 911 996 is a better track car, a 997 would be better but I don't like the 991 as the driver is no longer in charge, which I consider a requirement for a track car.

JAD | 13 septembre 2019

Thus I am seriously considering upgrading my 2014 P85 to a 370 mile S. I had hoped for more from Porsche, but am back to only interested in the Tesla

WantMY | 14 septembre 2019

@kaffine Who is complaining? Buyers want to know any upcoming changes ahead of time, for the reason to help with buying decision resulting most likely with a delay. It is manufacturers who keep tight lips to help current model sales. So what is the reason to screw your current sales with this kind of announcements? May be this would refresh you imagination. What you think would happen to current sales of any car if manufacturer announced $5K price drop next year?

Bighorn | 14 septembre 2019

@WantMY
Are you ever even going to buy a Tesla? Shit or get off the pot. Nobody shares your irrational fears about sales and we're the ones who are customers with a vested interest. Sounds like Tesla is never going to get your money, so move along to Hyundai or Kia or whatever is the better fit. Honda Civic also seem a popular choice.

WantMY | 14 septembre 2019

Wow, some decorated trolls are loosing it. Thanks Bighorn! I'll take your angry post as a victory trophy.

Bighorn | 14 septembre 2019

No problem. Glad I could brighten your otherwise miserable life.

TabascoGuy | 14 septembre 2019

@WantMY said Tesla's current models are "underperfoming".

That got a pretty good good laugh out of me. Pretty much makes anything he's said before or after meaningless.

WantMY | 14 septembre 2019

@TabascoGuy Please, try to reason why current models were not taken to the track? And what this new model would do to performance perception of current models? I still did not get any coherent reasoning. I am waiting for you to spill the beans, you seems like know it all kind.

JAD | 14 septembre 2019

Because they are street cars, just like an f150 which sells well for it's purpose but it's terrible on a race track.

WantMY | 14 septembre 2019

@JAD I was referring to current production models sold as Performance variants: P100D, not a base models.

Bighorn | 14 septembre 2019

Benefits far outweigh the costs. Tesla will ultimately get their S money and take Porsche’s lunch money as well. Only impact is on short term SP which ultimately doesn’t matter.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-plaid-powertrain-porsche-taycan-game-ove...

WantMY | 14 septembre 2019

@Bighorn This biased article does not answer anything, just bashing other EV. You may need to refer to comment section to understand "this is not what you think it is" as Musk would put it.

JAD | 14 septembre 2019

Sorry, WantMy, I was not aware that performance meant it was a track car, not a street car. I hope I don't get arrested for driving my P85 on the street, I would never have bought it as a track car.

TabascoGuy | 14 septembre 2019

@WantMY I'm good, I think my post stands.

TabascoGuy | 14 septembre 2019

...as does Tesla's performance.

WantMY | 14 septembre 2019

@TabascoGuy Sorry, one down, one to go. Not "know it al"l kind, I gave you way too much credit.
@JAD Tesla Model S performance P100D would add 30% in price, so it got to be that good, right? Until last week, it is not.

WantMY | 14 septembre 2019

Hey, TabascoGuy - you are no match to Bighorn, just fade away quietly with whatever you stand on.

TabascoGuy | 14 septembre 2019

I never made any such claim. What on earth are you babbling about?

mrburke | 14 septembre 2019

The real question is what will they call this beast ?
P100D+ ? No, the don't put kWHs in the name any more

Model S Nuremburgring Edition ? I kinda like that, but it is a little long.
Maybe just
Model S Nuremburgring or...
Model S Ring Edition ?

Or... wait for it...
Model S Turbo.

JAD | 14 septembre 2019

3.7 for 100D down to 2.4, sure 30% sounds more than fair. How much does Porsche charge for 2.4 0-60? I am quite sure my car will never be at the Ring, but it will do 0-60 a bunch. We have facts on 0-60 times, only conjecture on Ring times. No one really knows how 'stock' either car was/will be. Porsche is definitely answering carefully, never saying it was stock.

So lets talk range, ~225 EPA for Porsche, 345 for P100D. How do those costs per mile compare as they are both STREET CARS. The track stuff is just pub talk and free PR, especially if it isn't the same driver, same day etc to have a level field no matter which one wins this round if it even happens.

Bighorn | 14 septembre 2019

@mrburke
It’s not Nuremberg. That was the Nazi trial. It’s Nurburg with an umlaut over the first U. Common mistake, though.

SamO | 14 septembre 2019
Devilstower | 14 septembre 2019

If you haven’t seen it, I’d also recommend the this video of U.K. YouTuber Tesla Driver burning through a battery charge and having a blast on Track Day.

https://youtu.be/9fzPWJfTmnY

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