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Range On Model 3 Reduced....

Range On Model 3 Reduced....

I know whenever someone mentions that their range has been reduced people will answer back with "don't use the miles but use percentage". However, with my LR RWD having NEVER received to updated range to 325 miles like some did months ago I was happy having what I purchased which is 310 miles of range on a full charge. I consistently had 279 miles of range every time I charged my car to 90% until the recent Version 10 update. Now, I am getting 268 miles of range. It is a REAL # based on what should be 310 miles at full charge. So my real full range charge is now 298 and not 310. I know I am not the only one who is experiencing this and some will try to pass it off as battery drain. I only have a little over 15K miles on my car having taken delivery of it new in August 2018. I wish more would chime in and see just how many Model 3 owners are having the same issue and if it's since the most recent update. I am currently on 2019.32.12.1. I am hoping a future update will resolve this and put my miles/charge back to where they belong. I purchased a long range with 310 and not one with 298.

John.cookiv | 4 décembre 2019

Exact same thing here. Early build LR RWD. Always charge to 80% and saw that go from 245 to 233 overnight. Charged to 100% last night and only got 294. Saw as high as 315 after range bump but most recently was at 308. 14 mile range drop (5%) in a month is not degradation, it's algorithmic.

I'm not angry (this is plenty of miles people), but an explanation would be nice.

stingray.don | 4 décembre 2019
MSUKent | 4 décembre 2019

I'm a new 3 owner. Full charge seems to get me 295 at best. I don't get near the 325 advertised.

Tuba | 6 décembre 2019

I came here as i am having similar issues. My M3 purchased 2019 Aug. I consistently charged till 80% only used to get 282 miles then there was a sw update few weeks ago I got 276 I said ok no big deal.. then yesterday 12/05/2019 got another sw update now I get 268 at full 80% charge... (the last 2 software updates did not include new comments on the screen) only change I noticed is the range. Is Tesla telling owners what updates are in the release before we agree on INSTALLING? Like almost ALL software Owners/developers?

stingray.don | 6 décembre 2019

The software update did not reduce your range. Tesla may or may not have tweaked the algorithm for estimating range. If you feel otherwise, you can schedule a service appointment, but this is what they will tell you.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/letter-about-range-tesla

rgkresek | 7 décembre 2019

Just to add some additional data, my M3 AWD which used to show 306-308 on a full charge (never made it to 310), now shows only 293 on a full charge (reduction has been recent, probably after the recent software updates). My other RWD M3 shows 284 at 90% or the equivalent of 316 miles, also down from the 325 I got at one point. Both cars have under 10,000 miles.

FISHEV | 7 décembre 2019

Rated Range is all over the map anymore. You get different readings all the time when Rated Range should be fairly steady slow decline to max of 30% over eight years.

Right now my 14,000/7 month LR AWD shows 298 rated range while my Battery Degradation stats (from TeslaFI.com and StatsApp) shows 298.

Yesterday it as 306.

Here's the degradation curve produced by the car and viewed via StatsApp. Looks about right for 14k/7 months.

https://imgur.com/bQ8iCKC

StatsApp has another product the compares your battery degradation to other M3 owners.

That looks like this for my vehicle.

https://imgur.com/Ka0SdZU

Tesla played with the Rated Range so it a big meaningless. On purpose to cloud the issue of battery degradation or just innocent unintended consequence of trying to do updates and fix bugs?

stevecox51 | 15 décembre 2019

My M3 (delivered 9/2019) will only go 200 miles on a full charge. That's interstate driving less than 70mph with A/C off. I've read where some are getting more than 250 miles. What can be done?

PECo CT | 15 décembre 2019

My LR DM has been on 40.2.1 for a few days and charged up to 250 miles at 80 percent, last night. The air temperature in my garage is 55 degrees.

The day before, the car charged up to only 246 miles at 80 percent. Go figure.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

To FiShEV to correct his lies.
Energy Display: Display remaining energy and charging units as either a percentage of battery energy remaining, or as an ESTIMATE of the distance you can drive.
This information is straight from the manual.

No where it states as rated range rather than just an estimate. It's there to help you to have an idea and plan ahead. This is not a hard number that represents your true battery capacity or true range. Bam

stingray.don | 15 décembre 2019

stevecox51,

Lots of factors can reduce range and you haven’t provided enough information. What was the rated range when you purchased your car? What wh/mi did you experience on your 200 mile trip? Did you really charge to 100% and discharge to 0 or nearly 0? Was it one trip without stopping or was the car idle for any length of time? What wheels/tires do you have? What was the air pressure of the tires? What was the outside temp? We’re there changes in elevation?

ReD eXiLe ms us | 15 décembre 2019

~*SIGH*~

Have you always reached your intended destination, then been able to charge while there?

Yes.

Well the good news is you have no problem.

Have you ever been traveling with less than ten or twenty miles to reach your destination, at or below the posted speed limit, on a clear, cool comfortable day, on practically level ground, with an indicated range of fifty-to-one hundred miles or more, and the vehicle started displaying 'PULL OVER, CHARGE NOW' warnings before shutting down, coming to a complete hault, and leaving you stranded?

Congratulations! Your car is broken and you have cause to b!+c#, moan, and complain. Yay?

Otherwise? Just plan to do the same as you did in an ICE car. Plan to pull over and add energy, however much you'll need, each time there is an indicated 25% state of charge or less. In the meantime, learn to drive slower, and maybe consider you should live where the Sun shines.

FISHEV | 15 décembre 2019

"Plan to pull over and add energy, however much you'll need, each time there is an indicated 25% state of charge or less. In the meantime, learn to drive slower, and maybe consider you should live where the Sun shines."

Per the above, EV's are only viable in moderate climates and if you drive "slower" and only if you have a charger avaialbe every time you drive 77 miles (25% of rated range).

That's all bogus.
Recharge when you get to 50 miles/10%
Don't recharge over 85%
That gives you a working Rated Range of 232 miles
In Winter, figure 30% of that, 162 miles.

Watch your Estimated Range in the Energy graph for what actual range the car has per conditions.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 15 décembre 2019

@fish “ Don't recharge over 85%”

This is terrible advice for someone who is range limited. Charge as much as you can while still retaining all functions (seems to be about 95% before regenerative braking starts to decline).

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 15 décembre 2019

@fish “ Recharge when you get to 50 miles/10%”

You get 50 miles at 10% SOC? Congratulations, you likely own the most efficient M3 ever produced.

FISHEV | 15 décembre 2019

"You get 50 miles at 10% SOC?"
"Recharge when you get to 50 miles/10%"

If you start to look for recharge at 50 miles, by the time you get there, especially in winter with 70% of rated range, you'll be in the 10%/30 mile range. I think the car says the same thing with the Rated Range indicator going from green to orange at 50 miles.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

No such a thing as rated range indicator. Sorry

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

But there is ESTIMATED driving distance meter.

Magic 8 Ball | 15 décembre 2019

Is it a fruit or is it a vegetable?

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

What would it take to get you to stop referring to it as the rated range indicator?

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

Check this to understand Fish is constantly infusing lies to his narrative.
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/your-power-meter-just-estimate

FISHEV | 15 décembre 2019

"What would it take to get you to stop referring to it as the rated range indicator?"

When it is no longer the Rated Range indicator. Why do you think TeslFi.com and StatsApp both call these data outputs from the car Rated Range and Estimated Range? Are they adding the labels or does the car call them that?

https://imgur.com/e6Ar2Zz

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

Flag the troll

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

Reference to 3rd party apps don't make it correct. Tesla calls it in manual ESTIMATED driving distance meter

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

Are they adding the labels or does the car call them that? -fish

They are adding the labels.

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

Ok, since the manual calls them something different, you should honor your word and stop calling them that.

FISHEV | 15 décembre 2019

"Tesla calls it in manual ESTIMATED driving distance meter"

Estimated Rated Range with the green indicator that toggles between estimated rated range at current battery capacity.

Estimated Estimated Range with the Energy graph.

Yes we know everything is "estimated" but for accuracy and brevity we say "Rated Range" and "Estimated Range" as you see from the Tesla apps to describe the two very different range numbers the car provides.

When you get TeslaFI.com and StatsApp to change the car's description of the data to your description of the data, call back.

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

Why do you think TeslFi.com and StatsApp both call these data outputs from the car Rated Range and Estimated Range? -fish

At one point there was a toggle to let the power meter either be epa or estimated. Toggle is gone, manual is changed. It’s a holdover from back then.

In a bit this is going to click in your head. Then your narrative is going to switch that Tesla sucks because they changed this “important” tool without notifying you.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

You can throw your BS all day long. Look at the manual where they describe Power meter it under number 8 page 60. End of the Story.

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

Yes we know everything is "estimated" but for accuracy and brevity we say "Rated Range" and "Estimated Range" as you see from the Tesla apps to describe the two very different range numbers the car provides.-fish

You say it for brevity, but not for accuracy. They are different range estimates, but neither is your holy “rated range”

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

Yes, updated manual
https://imgur.com/a/ceGqvrG

FISHEV | 15 décembre 2019

"They are different range estimates, but neither is your holy “rated range”"

Not sure I'd call Tesla, TeslaFi and StatsApp "holy" just providing owners with their Rated Range at current battery capacity and Estimated Range at current battery level.

Calling two different numbers "Estimated Range" makes no sense.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 15 décembre 2019

Tesla don't call it rated Range. Are you mentally challenged?

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 15 décembre 2019

@fish “ Yes we know everything is "estimated" but for accuracy and brevity we say "Rated Range””

No, not everything is estimated. Rated Range is determined experimentally with a standardized test.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 15 décembre 2019

@fish “ Not sure I'd call Tesla, TeslaFi and StatsApp "holy" just providing owners with their Rated Range at current battery capacity“

“Rated range at current battery capacity” is a nonsensical term. Rated Range reflects full discharge from full charge. Nothing less.

steveishere | 15 décembre 2019

One more data point here, ~296 fully charged at ~21k miles. It was a discrete drop from ~310 after a software update few months ago so probably just some algorithm tweaking.

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

test

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

I decided to use the API to figure this out. After getting through the whole thing, here is the data that comes from the data request for charge state:

{
"response": {
"battery_heater_on": false,
"battery_level": 57,
"battery_range": 181.23,
"charge_current_request": 40,
"charge_current_request_max": 40,
"charge_enable_request": true,
"charge_energy_added": 2.2,
"charge_limit_soc": 76,
"charge_limit_soc_max": 100,
"charge_limit_soc_min": 50,
"charge_limit_soc_std": 90,
"charge_miles_added_ideal": 9.5,
"charge_miles_added_rated": 9.5,
"charge_port_cold_weather_mode": true,
"charge_port_door_open": true,
"charge_port_latch": "Engaged",
"charge_rate": 36.1,
"charge_to_max_range": false,
"charger_actual_current": 40,
"charger_phases": 1,
"charger_pilot_current": 40,
"charger_power": 9,
"charger_voltage": 227,
"charging_state": "Charging",
"conn_charge_cable": "SAE",
"est_battery_range": 120.77,
"fast_charger_brand": "",
"fast_charger_present": false,
"fast_charger_type": "",
"ideal_battery_range": 181.23,
"managed_charging_active": false,
"managed_charging_start_time": null,
"managed_charging_user_canceled": false,
"max_range_charge_counter": 0,
"minutes_to_full_charge": 100,
"not_enough_power_to_heat": null,
"scheduled_charging_pending": false,
"scheduled_charging_start_time": null,
"time_to_full_charge": 1.67,
"timestamp": 1576455166907,
"trip_charging": false,
"usable_battery_level": 56,
"user_charge_enable_request": null
}
}

The important data for the discussion is this:
"battery_level": 57,
"battery_range": 181.23,
"est_battery_range": 120.77,
"ideal_battery_range": 181.23,
"usable_battery_level": 56,

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

1. Absolutely no where is the words "rated range used".
2. The numbers on the power meter correspond to the data called "battery level" and "battery range".
3. The battery range is a number calculated by 325 * (usable_battery_level / 100)
4. I'll check it tomorrow as the car goes from cold to not so cold, but the usable_battery_level appears to be sensitive to low temperature.

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

If you think about it, the car can always charge to 100% on the power meter. So, if it was really rated range then the number would always be the original specified rated range of the car. In my case 325.

So you need to have the display go to 100% but then have another number that is the usable percentage of the battery. That number is usable_battery_level. The factors for that number could and should include degradation, but they can also include other environmental factors. Evidence of that is that the percentage on the power meter can stay at a set number, but the range in miles can increase as the car sits (and gets warm).

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

There is no way to separate the usable_battery_level number into degradation vs environment. So all the 3rd party apps that show you that number are doing a disservice. The only thing they could do is remove all previous numbers of range that are lower than the current number. This is because degradation is not reversible. You can't have 2% degradation one day and 1% the next. In a plot you would take the latest range number and then work backwards converting any number smaller than the current number to the current number and accepting any larger previous number as the new degradation number.

Textbook summary: power meter percentage is based on charge to current usable maximum. Power meter range is current usable_battery_level multiplied by rated range. The environment can decrease range, so a decreased range is not indicative of degradation.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 15 décembre 2019

@jallred
“ if it was really rated range then the number would always be the original specified rated range of the car. In my case 325.”

Yes, regardless of SOC, vehicle health, or driving conditions.

Rated range is determined experimentally. It is the distance a representative sample repeatedly achieved during a standardized test gamut from full charge to essentially zero charge (when it can not complete the current cycle, the test is over).

The only ways rated range would charge are:
1) re-test with a different result, or
2) manufacturer dishonesty.

Here is a foolproof way to demonstrate that the display in question isn’t returning rated range: it changes due to the vehicle being used.

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

Here is a foolproof way to demonstrate that the display in question isn’t returning rated range: it changes due to the vehicle being used.-MAB

And that is why Tesla doesn't name any of there data over API "rated range".

Mike UpNorth_ | 15 décembre 2019

Slam dunk in your FACE lol

FISHEV | 15 décembre 2019

So which numbers correspond to which numbers that the car's main screen's display?

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

Power meter set to percentage = percent of maximum usable battery capacity based on degradation and environment.
Power meter set to range = current usable battery capacity as a percentage multiplied by rated range.
Energy graph predicted range = current usable battery capacity multiplied by latest miles/kWh.

jallred | 15 décembre 2019

Power meter numbers are in api as battery_level and battery_range

FISHEV | 15 décembre 2019

"Slam dunk in your FACE lol"

More like an exploding cigar. Now @jallred has to call it "ideal range" which sounds suspiciously like rated range. I'm OK with it.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 15 décembre 2019

Rated: (n) the amount of a charge or payment with reference to some basis of calculation

Ideal: (n) a conception of something in its perfection.

In what universe are those things suspiciously alike?

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