VW "Deemed Unethical" - ENORMOUS LIABILITY

VW "Deemed Unethical" - ENORMOUS LIABILITY

Another Monday and another ruling against VW.

'A U.S. appeals court ruled Monday Volkswagen AG may face “enormous” additional liability in the “Dieselgate” scandal finding that two counties can enforce regulations against the German automaker for tampering with post-sale vehicles. The court said it recognized the ruling “may result in the imposition of unexpected (and enormous) liability on Volkswagen.”

"The unanimous ruling by a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, sitting in Anchorage, Alaska, was a victory for Utah’s Salt Lake County and Florida’s Hillsborough County. The counties sued VW for causing excess diesel emissions harmful to the environment and could in theory seek billions of dollars in damages.

Volkswagen settled U.S. criminal and civil actions prompted by the cheating scandal for more than $20 billion, but that did not shield it from liability from local and state governments, the 9th Circuit noted.

The 9th Circuit found that nothing in the Clean Air Act “raises the inference that Congress intended to place manufacturers beyond the reach of state and local governments.”


The Federal Court of Justice on Monday ruled against German automaker Volkswagen in the country's first case brought by a car owner over the company's emissions test cheating.

The court said that people who had purchased a VW automobile equipped with software that manipulated emissions tests are entitled to financial compensation. They can return the vehicle and receive partial financial reimbursement from the automaker.

The car's mileage will be taken into account when calculating reimbursement, the court said.

"The behavior of the defendants is to be deemed unethical," said presiding judge Stephan Seiters in the Court's judgment.

The ruling paves the way for thousands more German Volkswagen owners whose vehicles were fitted with devices designed to manipulate emissions tests to claim compensation.

VW had previously settled for $25 billion in the US and other countries in 2016, and until recently had failed to settle with German car owners.

Last fall the automaker agreed to pay out AU$127 million ($83 million, €76 million) as a settlement for multiple class-action lawsuits it faced from Australian customers. In January, a Canadian court ordered VW to pay fines of nearly CAN$2 million ($1.4 million, €1.3 million) on top of the CAN$2.4 billion it had already paid, a sum "26 times the highest fine ever for a Canadian environmental offence."

Courts have also ordered other carmakers involved in the scandal to pay fines and to recall thousands of vehicles believed to be equipped with emissions-cheating software.

Some 60,000 individual cases against VW are currently pending across Germany, according to VW. Lower German courts follow decisions taken by the higher court, meaning the ruling greatly increases the chances of car owners winning their individual suits, which could result in a payout from the carmaker. In July, the court will take up further cases linked to the scandal. These include suits against the car DEALERS who sold the Volkswagen as well as against OTHER carmakers.


Please don't ever trust these companies again with your money.

howard | 25 mai 2020

Same old Sam0 crap. Old news

SamO | 25 mai 2020

Actually ruling was today and is on the front page of the WSJ.

howard | 25 mai 2020

It been covered for months If not years now. So what. Old news.

ksrehman | 25 mai 2020

This belongs in General not Model 3 forum.

All the big German automakers (VW, Audi, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes) collaborated unethically as 'Das Kartell' so the unethical behavior is not limited to VW nor to emissions test cheating in software... for example AdBlue (urea solution) tanks were knowingly made too small so that 'clean diesels' were cleaner on emissions tests but ran out of urea between service visits and were dirtier on the road.

I would buy a Ford EV or even a GM EV before a German EV ...

spuzzz123 | 25 mai 2020

Lmao Howard

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 25 mai 2020

“It been covered for months If not years now”

That’s a neat trick since the ruling was handed down today.

Bighorn | 25 mai 2020

VW, Audi, and Porsche are all part of VAG as are several other marques.

I guess the court’s ruling is fake news. /s

SamO | 25 mai 2020

Not only is it NOT fake new or even old news. Just yesterday in Germany, VW still maintained that they did nothing wrong.

"in Europe VW is still denying the software in question was an illegal defeat device – despite German regulators having ruled in 2015 that the software was designed to cheat emissions tests."

They are the biggest group of mass murderers since . . . VW during the 3rd Reich.

Scrannel | 25 mai 2020

My wife has a diesel Range Sport which does require urea, so she keeps a supply in the garage. So, it does require a bit of attention. And, according to our dealer, that's the 'fail' for customers who can't be bothered.

howard | 25 mai 2020

SamO, despite German regulators having ruled in “2015” that the software was designed to cheat emissions tests."

Like I said the issue has been known for years. Old news and non relative to this forum just more of you Tesla fanatic sensationalism.

Thread after thread.

Magic 8 Ball | 25 mai 2020

Howard has a sad.

Ross1 | 25 mai 2020

Crush all German cars then?

Ross1 | 25 mai 2020

Since VW plus the others will never be able to afford all those payouts it stands to reason that there will be a govt intervention, the awards will be reversed. Have to be.

SamO | 25 mai 2020

Nope. VW can go into receivership and the monies on hand delivered to customers and creditors.

As for old news, VW denied their liability as recently as yesterday.

Man... things can change in a day.

spuzzz123 | 25 mai 2020

Lmao Howard

T_Scheen | 26 mai 2020

I've read the judgement in German.
However, the term "sittenwidrig" correctly translates to "improper", not "unethical" in this context.
Anyway, for the weak amongst us, this judgement is RECENT BIG NEWS !

jordanrichard | 26 mai 2020

SamO, unless those responsible are banned for life from working in the auto industry, dissolving VW or as you put it "....go into receivership", would accomplish nothing because those individuals will just go work for another car company.

SamO | 26 mai 2020

I don’t want to ban the hundreds of thousands of workers from joining another manufacturers.

But the ones who have been caught planning and executing the actual crimes are headed to jail. I don’t think it’ll be that easy to put on your resume.

andy.connor.e | 26 mai 2020

Court ruling yesterday.

"this is old news"

Apparently its just significant enough to get the NaCl production started in a select few people.

yudansha™ | 26 mai 2020

The article is from Thursday, May 3, 2018 (◔_◔)

SamO | 26 mai 2020

I'm glad we see the astroturfers come to protect their clients.

andy.connor.e | 26 mai 2020

the OP article was from yesterday

yudansha™ | 26 mai 2020

The latest link by the OP is outdated. Tell us what happened to CEO. Is he serving any time?
From my favorite Wikipedia, "In January 2020 it was reported that the German judge in the case stated that Winterkorn might be allowed to keep 12 million dollars in bonuses, and possibly walk free from the charges."

andy.connor.e | 26 mai 2020

An article made yesterday is outdated. Please let us know if you find an "up to date" article. | 26 mai 2020

Perhaps he wants an article from 2021? Let me jump in my time machine and see if I can get the final results...

yudansha™ | 26 mai 2020

@andy.connor.e Quotation is below:

SamO | May 26, 2020

I don’t want to ban the hundreds of thousands of workers from joining another manufacturers.

But the ones who have been caught planning and executing the actual crimes are headed to jail. I don’t think it’ll be that easy to put on your resume.

andy.connor.e | 26 mai 2020

i see you are not talking about the OP link.

whats your point that that one is from 2018?

SamO | 26 mai 2020

Criminal indictments are ongoing. Civil cases are bringing verdicts in favor of return and damages of all vehicles that were a part of this criminal fraud.

I feel bad for the customers, most of all, who were sold environmental benefits to buying diesel cars thus making these ethical people part of a plan to poison the general population.

Let's call it what it is.

This makes certain forum members sad.

Good. I will continue to post this topic because there are a handful of degenerates on this forum who constantly call Elon Musk a fraud while ignoring or minimizing the absolute cabal of fossil fuel scumbags and their billion-dollar disinformation campaigns.

Tesla's mission is to accelerate the advent of sustainable energy.

VW's is . . not.

yudansha™ | 26 mai 2020

@andy.connor.e What was his point of sharing a link to an old news?

yudansha™ | 26 mai 2020

What makes me sad is this CEO, just like others, will get away with it. He is 70; he is not looking for another job.

andy.connor.e | 26 mai 2020

Ok i see, you did not understand how that link he posted had anything to do with the comment that preceded it. Dont ask to clarify and just invalidate him based on the date of the article.

yudansha™ | 26 mai 2020

No, you don't see. He claimed "But the ones who have been caught planning and executing the actual crimes are headed to jail. I don’t think it’ll be that easy to put on your resume."
The CEO is not going to go to jail and is not looking for employment at his age. So much drama. /s

andy.connor.e | 26 mai 2020

it helps if you read the link to understand how it relates to the comment. just sayin

inconel | 26 mai 2020

To me this was big news when it came out yesterday because of the precedent it will set and the fact that justice has prevailed in VW own country.

howard | 26 mai 2020

SamO thus making these ethical people part of a plan to poison the general population.

How much more sensational can you possibly get. Do you wear a pointed white hat, hood and have a burning cross in your front yard when you make such flaming statements.

The difference in emissions with the software “fix” is very minor, if it even registers at all, when compared to world wide emissions but you can make it out to be killing people if it supports your warped views. cutting your own flatulence would probably have a bigger impact.

jacknrascal | 26 mai 2020

As a current VW and Model 3 owner, I am delighted to see VW get slapped down again. VW is a morally bankrupt corporation that has had many screw ups since dieselgate, and they have learned NOTHING. My CC has had multiple issues which VW was well aware of and did nothing about until run all the way through the class action lawsuit process. Their EV's are doomed. They have the wrong mindset to compete with Tesla.

lbowroom | 26 mai 2020

Howard, what compels you to protect and stand up for anything not Tesla?

Ross1 | 27 mai 2020

What problems with your CC?

spuzzz123 | 27 mai 2020

Yeah LBR, it’s pretty revealing, isn’t it?

yudansha™ | 27 mai 2020

Justice?! People at the top will walk away with millions, while people at the bottom will pay the price.

SamO | 27 mai 2020


People who bought these fraud mobiles will get some/all of their money back.

Friends don’t let friends EVER buy a VW, Audi or Porsche.

Joshan | 27 mai 2020

It really is amusing watching the same 3-4 people twist themselves into a pretzel trying to find any way to turn everything into being "anything but Tesla". They must really live shallow and sad lives, that this is what brings them joy.

SamO | 27 mai 2020

Or are paid to pretend to look the other way.

yudansha™ | 27 mai 2020

There is no justice when the top walks away unscathed, the bottom loses jobs/pension to pay consumers.

finman100 | 27 mai 2020

it's just comical the way people will support such crappy (VW) companies at any cost. i'm laughing at you. so is the rest of the world. deal with it. or stfu. your choice.

either way you're all jokes.

tee effing hee

Scrannel | 27 mai 2020

Let's cast our memories back to the good old days when every automobile company on earth had no problem pumping lead into the atmosphere, knowing (since ancient times) that it was a danger to the human nervous system. Especially the developing human nervous system: children. I think collectively, when we believe we can hide in a crowd, we embrace bad shit, for financial gain. To pretend that's OK is essentially auditioning for the next crowd evil.

Joshan | 27 mai 2020

yudansha™ | May 27, 2020
There is no justice when the top walks away unscathed, the bottom loses jobs/pension to pay consumers.

Could not disagree more. If I owned one of the affected cars how does the someone going to jail give me "justice"? You do not know or have any attachment to the person going to jail and you are still stuck with the shitty car.

What gives justice is dropping the PoS back in their lap and forcing them to pay you for it. And this is happening.

SamO | 27 mai 2020


jacknrascal | 27 mai 2020

What problems with your CC?

1. 2011-12 2.0 TSI engines had a faulty timing chain tensioner. The housing holding the spring could fail causing the spring to come loose and the chain to run slack and letting all the engine internals beat each other to death. VW was aware of this since thousands of engines failed due to this, and they redesigned the tensioner, however, they never issued a recall to fix engines that didn't fail. When I found out I had a vehicle with a faulty tensioner and was out of warranty I made the choice to repair myself for $2,000 rather than have a totaled car.
2. The fuel pump module was prone to overheating and failing. I received a recall notice about it, but the recall did not have an approved repair yet?!?! Guess what? My unit failed and VW did NOT offer to repair for free. Their initial solution was for me to pay the dealer for the repair, and then submit a bill for the repair AFTER they issued a recall solution.
3. The rear end camber and toe combined with the extremely soft stock Continental tires was causing rear tires to cup with as little as 10,000 miles. The road noise on mine at 15,000 mile tire wear was insane. The internet was full of complaints re this, but VW places the blame on Continental and has never offered a fix for the issue.

There have been tons of other pesky, sensor and wiring issues like 6 wheel speed sensor failures, wiring harness failures, ABS module failure, and mildly slipping DSG.

My first 2 cars were both VW rabbits, and I used to love the cars. Fun performance in an economical, reliable package. That was 30 years ago. Today, in my opinion they make minimally competitive garbage and do not stand behind the product, even when it is demonstrably flawed.