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Frustrated Delivery Timing

Frustrated Delivery Timing

I am not sure I know another method to express my opinion of the Tesla team other than this forum to see if anyone else has similar issues or any ideas on how to solve the issues that I am experiencing.

I am reservation number 137 of the standard X (not Sig) and reserved the car within 5 minutes of the release to the public, outside their event the night before of its launch. This was 4 years ago now. Prior to the release of the X, I purchased a Signature S and waiting 3+ years for that one.

As I am sure many, if not all, of you have experienced, this company is young and hasn't matured to a true customer service automobile company. While waiting for the S to arrive, we never knew anything about when or what we would receive until the car would actually show up. At that time, I was impressed beyond believe with its ability and the car as a whole and still express my happiness of it. I have owned many cars in this price range and beyond and this is my favorite to date.

With all that being said, I truly believed my experience with the X would be better. I thought they would get their stuff together.....nope. The ordering process was the worst experience with nobody knowing anything about the car when I would call or go into the store. "What is in between the rear seats if I go with the 6 seater?" My answer was....I don't know or have the ability to find out. "Ok, what color gray is it going to be for the X....is it the same as the S?" Their answer....I don't know and don't have a way of finding out. This went on and on, so I ordered blind as always wishing for the best. About 4 weeks later, I go onto my tesla account and see I have been issued a VIN. Well that must mean I am in production like the S.....nope. I call corporate and they told me to wait for my delivery expert to contact me. Waited a couple weeks....nothing. So I took it upon myself to call my Costa Mesa location to find out if I have one...nope. I call back corporate a week later and they said I have one and to call Costa Mesa. I did so, and they couldn't find one for me. The next day I go to my tesla again and see I was assigned one....well thanks for telling me. I am told to get the leasing done....I do that with very little success with decent rates and was told to self-finance or go to a bank of my choice. I do that and get my loan in place. Now, my loan is due to expire in 1 month and they have no clue as to when my car will start or end production. Maybe 6 months, maybe 3 weeks....they said we just dont know. They say "I don't have the ability to find out." Ok, well I am currently climbing the ladder until someone over there actually has the "ability" to tell me if I am coming in 3 weeks or 6 months. Do I sell my current car now....do I turn my car in at lease end....do I purchase a car between now and when the X comes....do I cancel the car......

Any ideas out there or similar experiences? I was thinking about the press because I have connections with a large newspaper....but didn't know if that was appropriate.

aljjr2 | 11 février 2016

There is a Wiki Thread in Tesla Motor Club, where owners contribute many answers to specs, operational and other information about the X ... BTW, there is nothing between the 6-seat config, just carpet. The consoles were built only for some Founder editions.

To your questions on when, Tesla stated that the P90D's would be built in the first part of 2016 (interpret as first 3rd of the year), the 90D models will follow and then the 70D's. Elon pointed out on the investor call last evening that the Highly configured Model X's would be produced first, to help pay the ramp and investment cost of the X, as Tesla did with the Model S. If you choose the 5 seat configuration, it will not be available until later part of 2016. So "WHEN" depends on "WHAT" you ordered. Your choices on what to do with the current vehicle seems more of a personal choice. I have chosen to sell my current SUV, since I have another car to drive. I anticipate my Model X in the first half of the year (P90D), so I can cope without the SUV for a month or so. Therefore, you will have to make what arrangements that fit your situation.

The DS, had little information about the X following the Launch in September. Not saying they shouldn't but just stating a fact. I went by the Service Center, and after attending the reveal, I knew more about the X than they. Things have been stressed at Tesla, trying to get the X "out the door". Elon indicated on the call yesterday that the issues delaying the ramp were behind them, and admitted that the X production was deliberately slowed to build the highest quality Tesla could and that some components required rework. Further stating that the production ramp will improve and approach the 1000 a week capacity -- not stay at that level, but nothing would preclude that production level with what they know now.

All that said, we can only have a bit of patience. There are 20,000 people calling, emailing, asking, demanding all sorts of information. If you ordered a P90D, Premium Package, give things 30-60 days -- as challenging as it seems, after 4 years another 60 days isn't that long. If you don't have a P90D ordered, then the wait will be mid-2016 according to the Tesla Site. Premium Package adds to the "highly configured" (profitable) to help with earlier delivery. Tesla is trying to pay the bills, achieve positive cash flow, and enhance its revenue.

Basically, this is what is known at this point, and I hope it helps you with making a decision on your current cars.

c3 | 12 février 2016

@Scott

Your frustration is justified and many here will agree that Tesla has much to learn about communicating with customers. The information available on seat configuration in particular has been ridiculously scant. Still no picture of the back of a 5s version. Still no information about cargo capacity for the 7s or 5s. This is pretty basic stuff. Adding insult to injury, you will be fined a $500 penalty if you wish to change your configuration based on what you can learn from gracious early owners willing to share on this forum. The alternative is to wait until you can see an actual car (good luck to those waiting to see a 5s) and lose your place in the production queue. I am looking forward to my MX because I believe it will be a great car. To this point, however, I have found every other aspect of dealing with Tesla to be a great disappointment. Like the Soup Nazi of Friends fame, they can get away with this because they have the best soup in town. Let's not forget how that story ends.

Ankit Mishra | 12 février 2016

So much righteousness and fault in your analogy. I haven't seen Soup Nazi but read it on Wikipedia. Soup Nazi was a one hit wonder, but Tesla is a company that is constantly improving. So, if anyone steals (by the way Tesla made its patents open) Tesla's idea it won't matter cause they are not Tesla. It's a strange assumption by a person that anything that person feels is inappropriate is injustice and will meet its end soon.

jjs | 12 février 2016

Scott,

Very similar experience both on the S and X. I too was hopeful that the ordering/buying experience would be better. It has not been. I do however feel for all the employees at Tesla who have to deal with the avalanche of questions and frustration they have to be getting from some 30k+ reservation holders.

So I am very frustrated too. But from time to time I think, would I prefer a frustrating car with a exceptionally good buying experience or and exceptionally good car with a frustrating buying experience? The question, and what I hope is the obvious answer, helps keep me calm.

carlk | 12 février 2016

This is a free market place. Just ask yourself if this, the whole package, is the best one I want. Just leave if it's not. Let people such as myself who think it's worth the wait to enjoy it. Some venting on the way out is fine but we are too busy to enjoy the party to hear you.

carlk | 12 février 2016

@jjs

That's true. Experience with any highly desirable cars would not necessarily be any better. If one wants to be treated like a royal you can go check out cars sitting in dealer's lot for months and not moving.

carlk | 12 février 2016

@scott
Any ideas out there or similar experiences? I was thinking about the press because I have connections with a large newspaper....but didn't know if that was appropriate.

I actually missed that the first time and gave you my honest answer. May I ask if by press you meant Seeking Alpha?

c3 | 12 février 2016

@Ankit

Please take a break from your commenting here to watch the Soup Nazi episode if you can find it online (it was from the Seinfeld series and not Friends as I erroneously stated earlier). I think you will find it both entertaining and informative. Only then will I engage you in a discussion about how relevant the analogy is. My nutshell encapsulation goes like this. The Soup Nazi had the best soup in the city. He treated his customers very poorly and demanded they stand quietly in line and order in a prescribed way. Failure to conform to his demands or to question him meant "No Soup for You" (Ask Stewart Alsop how relevant the analogy is). In the end, the Soup Nazi is undone and driven away because he has provoked the ire of his customers even though they love his soup to the bitter end.

I am waiting in line patiently for my soup (MX) and am even a part owner of the soup store (own 1000 shares TSLA). I believe in the vision of the company and in the great product they have created and say so often. I will be equally vocal, however, when I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. Imagine how great the company would be if it treated customers with a little more common courtesy. Better status communication to customers (per OPs frustration), more information online to inform configuration choices (my beef), not penalizing people for making changes when so little information is available or requires a hidden Easter Egg to invoke.

You are a spectator here. I have real skin in the game. I do not question your right to participate or your ostensibly apologist views. Please be more respectful of mine.

In the end, I believe we both want Tesla to succeed. I believe that honest feedback it the best way to help them do that.

ernie | 12 février 2016

@c3... Spot on without being caustic. As a fellow "skinner" in a number of ventures including TSLA I often put up with inanities and overlook some problems for the end goal.

P.S. My DS is nothing short of spectacular encouraging questions even though he might not have either good answers or anything other than "that is coming soon".

c3 | 12 février 2016

@ernie

By most accounts the DS folks are doing a really great job. I feel for them since it appears they have little more information than the rest of us.

DarthB | 12 février 2016

@scott with the Model X supposedly finally picking up its production rate, I would assume a reservation #/VIN like yours will have delivery by first week of March if not this month (based on what everyone with a VIN was saying). Please keep us posted if yours do arrive and good luck!

AlMc | 12 février 2016

@scott: I am sure once you receive the X much frustration will be forgotten. Keep us informed on the progress and don't hesitate to post your VIN in the VIN tracking thread.

As you have seen, any type of negative comment about TM is generally greeted with some blow back...

https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/loyalty-and-criticism-possib...

Darryl | 12 février 2016

@Scott

Can you provide additional information about what you ordered on the car. With this information we can tell you the timeframes other who have ordered similar cars are experiencing.

Ankit Mishra | 12 février 2016

Tesla did the right thing in banning Elsop. Why I should be more respectful of your views? I am respectful enough of every person views and I won't be giving you any special treatment. I won't be watching Soup Nazi so I am not fit for having a discussion on it. I tried my best by reading Wikipedia, but it's highly likely I will miss something.

Eracer | 12 février 2016

When I first saw a picture of the model X at the Santa Monica store in October 2012 they told us the car would be available in early 2014.
So with that experience I expect my sig X in Europe by the end of this year. Whenever it arrives is fine with me because I could drive my current car still for years and I will only sell it after the X delivery.
That said I initially wanted to persuade my wife to get an X, but she did not want to wait until 2014 then :-). Thank god she did not listen to me. We would have been divorced by now.
Plus now I get the X :-). So I am one of the lucky ones benefitting from all the delays.

socalsam | 12 février 2016

Im continuously amazed by the discussions and comments on this forum.

SUN 2 DRV | 12 février 2016

I would point out that you have CHOSEN this experience for yourself by wanting to be one of the very first to have a Model X. (You even experienced it with the MS and so it should not come as a surprise to encounter it again with the MX) Most of what you describe is because of the extremely early days in the MX's lifecycle. Specs, rates and dates are still either unknown or uncertain. Lots of stuff is still changing...should be no surprise at the introduction of such a radically new product.

But this is NOT how Tesla usually operates. I bought my MS at the end of 2013, about 1 year into it's lifecycle. The DS was very organized, informed and communicative. The buying experience was superb. The product delivered on exactly the date promised and was a wonderful experience.

If the OP wants a predictably smooth experience he should have waited a bit longer to order and schedule MX delivery. I'm certain Tesla will have a much better handle on things in 6 months.

Or he can be like CarlK and enjoy the wild and unpredictable ride since the destination will undoubtedly be glorious.

But realize that the CHOICE to be an early adopter was YOURS.

Red Sage ca us | 12 février 2016

A buddy of mine quoted the "No Soup for You! Fifteen years!" line to me multiple times over the years, before I actually saw the episode, which was SEINFELD, I believe... Not FRIENDS. And now a word from our sponsor, the WHERE'S the BEEF lady...

carlk | 12 février 2016

@joehuber

Yes precious things should not come too easy. The harder it gets the more enjoyment you will have when you finally get it. Or is that what people say it's the journey not the destination? Anyway I'm trying to enjoy the journey as much as I can.

@RS

I believe I was the first one who quoted no soup for you here. No one got it until later.

aljjr2 | 12 février 2016

There is a lot of complaining about the lack of Specs.. However, they were released some time ago, and include all the measurements.
https://www.teslamotors.com/support/model-x-specifications

Also there is a wealth of information in the Emergency Response document which you may find helpful:
https://www.teslamotors.com/support/model-x-specifications

Additionally, here is the Model X Wiki (TMC) put together by owners who have delivery for those FAQ's:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/59639-Model-X-FAQ-%28wiki%29

Lastly, here is the Model X complete Owners Manual:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iu96a18o64gd9bm/Model%20X%20Owner's%20Manual%207.0%20Dec%2030%202015.pdf?oref=e

Hope these help with all those looking for information.

elguapo | 12 février 2016

@aljjr2 Great post - very helpful. I had no idea that spec page existed.

vperl | 12 février 2016

Joe, six months at the rate and increase of Production, six months would hardly get 8k delivered.

Squeezing out MX like a quick Crete.

Ankit Mishra | 12 février 2016

14000 X by Q2.

aljjr2 | 12 février 2016

sorry, here is the correct link to the Emergency Response Doc

https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/2016_Model_X_Emerge...

elguapo | 13 février 2016

@ankit Sorry, but that is a ridiculously high number. Do you mean 14,000 produced in Q2? There's just no way. I don't think they'll produce 10,000 from 1/1 - 6/30 - so Q1 and Q2. They still have production issues.

Ankit Mishra | 13 février 2016

Nope.
Q1- 4000
Q2- 10000 ( Elon said Q2 average might be 700-800 cars per week).
Elon said no more issues. I trust the guy. I am not sure about Q1 no. though. He didn't gave any hint about that. He was only talking about Q2.

elguapo | 13 février 2016

He also said the X would be released in 2014. I love Elon, I love TM and I love my S and can't wait for my X. Having said all of that, I don't trust their guidance, estimations or approximations as I don't think they have ever been accurate.

elguapo | 13 février 2016

He also didn't say no more issues. They said the major issues had largely been overcome. Discussed the windshield, seats, etc. If there were no issues, they'd be at 700/week now. Again, huge supporter, but some realism would be appreciated.

aesculus | 13 février 2016

First off I don't think they have even sold (confirmed orders) 10,000 cars. Sure they had 25k reservations, but there is little evidence that the majority of these cars were ordered yet. Hence why the big push for the 'test drive' events?

Once people get a chance to experience the car I am sure many of the pending reservations will convert to orders.

NumberOne | 13 février 2016

Many people with relatively early confirmations (I reserved in 2012 and confirmed on 12/2/2015) have not heard back yet because they did not order a P90D. I ordered everything other than the P and Audio upgrade, so I think there are at least 2-3k orders for P90Ds. Elon has stated that they slowed production in January to straighten issues and his wording indicated that those have been resolved, and that they are indeed ramping. They were at approximately 250 per week in December. If the slowed down they may have reached 250 per week again by the end of Jan and is currently closing in on 300 per week. If they produced 500 cars for the entire January, it means that nearly all Sigs are done. There may be some refinements to do, but they are off the line. I think it possible to produce about 1k in Feb, and an additional 1.6k in March and completing the remaining P90Ds in April. In April, they will produce the first 90Ds, and by may May they will likely be at 700 per week. All that said, I am being optimistic here, and hope to have my car by May. Naturally not all cars will be delivered in the month they were built.

My prediction for Q2 is about 8250

jjhanna2 | 13 février 2016

I think TM would help their customers and themselves if the MyTelsa page would update the status after "Order Confirmed". If they would at least show "In Production", "Factory QA", "Shipped", and "At SC" it would prevent a lot of calls and frustration. If they can make a car drive itself, they should easily do that. I have a MS and love it and can't wait for my wife's MX.

Ankit Mishra | 13 février 2016

He says " We really don't see any fundamental issues" https:/youtu.be/QJkYSWZ3d1Y
Check at 25.50.
I am not sure about Q1 no. It can vary from 2000-4000. But, I am positive that Q2 will get at least 10000. Total orders guess - 60 % of 30000 I.e 18000.

dortor | 13 février 2016

10,000 Model X's in Q2 - wow - that number is awfully high for a car Elon admitted they can't build and shouldn't have designed the way they did.

Ankit Mishra | 13 février 2016

Don't put words in his mouth. Show us the proof. I have given the link where he says no more issues.

Triggerplz | 13 février 2016

Previously Elon did say he shouldn't have designed the vehicle they way he did.. With that said I'm ok with the design that's why I'm paying $147.300.00 to buy one

Ankit Mishra | 13 février 2016

No. He said they put too many features in the 1st versions. He never said that any of features were wrong, just that they put all of them at once. Cool.

NumberOne | 13 février 2016

Of course this is wandering OT but as I indicated a little earlier Q2 should be at least 8250 if the ramp to degree they felt comfortable indicating. For Q1 I do not see how 3,100 would not be possible. The total for Q1 and Q2 would then be 11,350 (by the end of June) By Q3 I expect them to be fully ramped and able to produce at least 15k. Same for Q4. So 41,350 for the year, which is actually in line with what Elon said about total production for S and X. 80k-90k. From what I said in my earlier post also, you may infer that if you ordered a P90D you should have it by the end of April. If you ordered a 90D you can expect it no earlier than May, depending on your confirmation date, and finally if you ordered a 70D you should not expect it until at least September, possibly October. The start date for the first 90D delivery is fluid because it depends on how many P90D orders result from the Model X city tour.

NumberOne | 13 février 2016

I am glad Elon and the team decided to put all the features in Model X that they did. It will be the latest and greatest for a long time.

Ankit Mishra | 13 février 2016

Well said. I agree. (Disclosure- no skin in game).

carlk | 13 février 2016

Yes I'm real glad of that too. For others it's always a good problem when people complain that the car is too good. Much better than when people complain it's not good enough or not as good as some others, like every SUV owner other than X will soon complain.

elguapo | 13 février 2016

I am glad all of the features are there too. Thank you @ankit for the link, I couldn't remember the qualifier. My point is still the same. Prior to the call, they didn't report any issues, they just let the line shut down without telling anyone. No "fundamental" issue is still a qualifier.

Regardless, I am psyched for my X,I just think I would be pleasantly surprised if they made 7,500 by end of Q2 and I'd like TM to be a little more realistic. The other thing is how many can they make that are ready to be delivered?

elguapo | 13 février 2016

Data point on production. My vin for a P90D with a confirm of 12/22 is in upper 400s and I am told to expect an early April delivery. I hope it's a case of unduerpromise, over perform. Either way, the wait will be well worth it.

ernie | 13 février 2016

@elguapo...and mine is in the lower 500's and it was thought [as of this week] that production would start this month with possible delivery next month. I think you will be pleasantly surprised...and I will say: 'I TOLD YOU SO". Now, with that and about $3.00 you can get a good cup of coffee.

TiburonTesla | 13 février 2016

I'm non-Sig #474. Confirmed on 1.1.16. Heard from a DS last week that my vehicle just entered prod and is 'weeks away' from being delivered. Not sure if that's 2 weeks or 20 weeks? He didn't know either.
It's a white P90D with all the trimmings..... except I ordered 20" wheels.

elguapo | 13 février 2016

@ernie. I hope you are right!

@Tiburon I am super close to your VIN. Got P90D, premium, 20", etc. Nothing that should cause a delay, so I hope to be pleasantly surprised. Even if I am not, Apil is t so far away,,,

ernie | 13 février 2016

@TiburonTesla & "elguapo"... and all other low number denizens of this forum: I am having more trouble than I thought I would. I should be all growed up and such. But in order to go to sleep at night I plan and map out trips instead of counting goats or sheep.

TiburonTesla | 14 février 2016

@ elguapo & ernie: yeah, I kind of feel for the DS's. they really have almost no information on delivery dates. I honestly think we know more about deliveries than they do from piecing together other people's info on this board. Regardless, seems like more people can see the finish line of this marathon. So let's sprint it out...

elguapo | 14 février 2016

@ernie I am having more trouble than I thought too as it relates to waiting. I had no problem for 2.5 years, but now that I know it is real and they are making them, I too go to sleep thinking about what else I can possible do to prepare, where I can go, etc.

@TiburonTesla We are definitely getting close. I feel for he DSs too, I don't think they have great info and they're getting pinged by X and S owners they over. They'd love to be able to deliver all of the Xs they can and I sense some frustration from them that there's only been a trickle so far. That said, I feel the finish line coming!!!

jjs | 14 février 2016

Congrats to all regular production reservation holders getting their Xes!

Squash.ball | 14 février 2016

Production and Delivery are two completely different things...They produced 500+ in 4Q '15 and delivered ~200. They continue to produce many but things are clogged up in QC. Probably small things holding them up (I guess) but enough of problems that they can't (or won't) deliver...

so...

they may product 14000 vehicles by Q2..question is how many can they deliver..
Elon is an optimist and its the 'unknowns unknowns' that are causing the delay..so I wouldn't trust

btw..still waiting to hear on my Sig 8XX...technically speaking it is already 'produced' but sitting in QC for atleast 4 weeks and no word on delivery date...SM can't say if its February or March or later...

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