If there is one positive that comes out of the NYT debacle, it's this:

If there is one positive that comes out of the NYT debacle, it's this:

It demonstrates definitively that superchargers should not be positioned 200 miles away from each other. It makes a 60kwh car drive impossible in all but the most perfect conditions, and leaves too little of a margin of error for a 85kwh car in bad conditions. It makes people fully top-off their cars to reach the next SC, which not only means they're engaging in time-inefficient charging (after the first 50%) but also spending more time at individual superchargers, which can create bottlenecks for multiple users at the same time, causing further delays.

The spacing of the Superchargers in California is pretty solid - none are more than I believe 125 miles apart, which makes even a poor-condition 60kwh drive pretty feasible without much stress.

I know more are being launched soon, and some of this will sort itself out, but people don't want to be told they have to be cold in their cars, drive below the speed limit, etc. in order to take a trip - and on cold days in the Northeast, some of that is necessary to complete the Newark to Milford SC span by more than the skin of your teeth.

ian | 14 février 2013


Well said. Which is probably what Elon should have said to begin with rather than bashing Broder and starting even more of a shit storm. Unless, as I've said in another thread, he was trying to play to the "There's no such thing as bad press." adage.

In the end, I think this whole debacle will be a minor blip in the success of Tesla Motors.

nwdiver93 | 14 février 2013

Broder lied... plain and simple. Elons response was measured and appropriate. NYT will be lucky if they get out of this without an expensive lawsuit. Broder will be lucky if he ever works as a journalist again. He might get a job with newscorp. (Newscorp doesn't employ jounalists... they employ "journalists")

Superliner | 14 février 2013

The other positive is unprecedented "air time" for the brand. people who never heard of Tesla or the Model S are probably googling it and learning more?

As long as Tesla comes out on top of or break even?? in this mess the advertising is priceless!!

Superliner | 14 février 2013

Read "Broders Response" posted elsewhere on here.. I can't keep up with the dozen or so threads scattered all over the forum on this subject anymore.

shop | 14 février 2013

I agree, I think Tesla comes out on top here, and I also think that Elon's responses were partially designed to stir up controversy so that more people would hear about Tesla. Guerrilla advertising. Smart startups use all the chances they can get to get into the public eye.

petero | 14 février 2013

Another positive. TM may realize they NEED to provide better support to writers. By this I mean a dedicated TM staffer, knowledgeable in the ‘S,’ route, charging options along the route, and a special phone number (24/7) … not just an 800 number that some TM staffer answers. Continued good press is very important, taking extraordinary care of writers should be a given. Not everyone wants TM to succeed.

I also agree with the previous posts, 125-150 or less miles between SC makes sense, especially with 60kWh hitting the streets, and overnight charging is a must, preferably using 220/240.

shop | 14 février 2013

Yeah, not everyone at Tesla is as knowledgeable as half the forums participants here. I was in the San Diego Tesla store the other day and pointed out that their example nema 14-50 wall plug was upside down from what it should be (since the charging adapter has a right angle bend and you want it to hang down). The store salescritter had no idea what I was talking about...

Brian H | 14 février 2013

Sorry, 60s don't count. They're guests, who can use part of the network some of the time. Buying one is a calculated gamble. They are NOT the long-distance model; trying to make them be is clueless. And a drag on the system (they have to full-harge, and are very slow to do so.)

I.e. The SC network is not, cannot be, and should not be tailored to accommodate 60kWh cars.

Brian H | 14 février 2013

typo: full-charge

codespanker | 14 février 2013

Being selfish, the one good thing will be some additional people abandoning their reservations because of this article and mine will move closer to production.

Brian H | 14 février 2013

Possibly, but many more will reserve (after your place in line, of course). "There's no such thing as bad publicity." Every driver sees in public how few have even heard of the Model S. And investigation → sales. Lots of sales. Even to people who have to eat beans and macaroni-and-cheese for years to afford the car. ;) (Those gas effects may offset much of the EV benefit!)

jbunn | 14 février 2013

EV car, but gas on board

Brian, as a 60 driver, I dont agree. Supercharging was built in. For later cars it was an option owners paid for. Ultimatly, supercharges will need to be much closer together to cover the demand. Not just for S, but for X, gen 3, and the new roadster. 3 to 5 years from now, whats a good guess? 100k Tesla cars on the road of different kinds?

portia | 14 février 2013

@BrianH I think 100-125miles apart for superchargers are practical for 60kwh models too. If it takes longer to charge, it's the price they pay for saving the money up front by not getting 85kwh cars. If there are plenty of SC's, it's not a problem.

Tesla obviously thinks 60kwh versions are road trip worthy, and they are selling the SC option, so there. Be nice.

trydesky | 14 février 2013

@portia, @jbunn +1

Fortunately, the SC stations don't make you show if you own a 60 or 85.

RedShift | 14 février 2013

+2 jbunn, Portia.

As a 60 kwh owner to be, I disagree with Brian's comments as well.

I plan to make it as ar as Las Vegas in my car one day.

Brian H | 14 février 2013

Remember, TM cancelled 60 S/C installations, and re-instated them only under intense duress! They're usable, but only barely on a trans-continental basis. They (you) clog the system, requiring 1.5+ hour full charges to match what an 85 takes in in ½ hr. In a few areas, like the coasts, they may be workable for some trips, but you'd better keep your KOA list page bookmarked elsewhere. You'll need it.

Robert22 | 15 février 2013

It will not take 1.5 hours to fully charge a 60 going forward. Improvements coming. Tesla does indeed view the 60 as a long range candidate. Stay tuned.

prash.saka | 15 février 2013

+3 jbunn, Portia.

The 60 kWh models have as much right as 85 kWh models to use the supercharger. The owners paid for the supercharger use and hence not "clogging" anything.

Lou in SoCal | 15 février 2013

@Brian H deal with it buddy. 60's can charge and your whining won't change a thing.

RedShift | 15 février 2013

In the future, I see more businesses offering expedited charging to exploit a new business opportunity.
All those Tesla owners with nowhere to go for up to an hour ....

Tesla could start licensing the supercharger tech.

sergiyz | 15 février 2013

Another thing that came out is trust your car more than tesla reps.
Unless they have recordings of Broder's phone calls, it's his word versus theirs, but I can totally believe they've given him wrong information about the car given plenty of other examples where owners knew more about the car than tesla employees.

Rick A | 15 février 2013

The value of more superchargers is without question, but I would not let Broder off the hook for his lack of integrity. If I had to choose between the credibility of media in general or Elon and Tesla, I would have chose Tesla before the NYT reporter lied. If the times does not terminate him they demonstrate their lack of commitment to their own integrity.

Grant910 | 15 février 2013

Brian H:

Why are you such a bully? It is particularly pathetic that you undertake your bullying on a message board. I have seen your entries on multiple threads over the last few months, and the pattern is clear. Maybe you didn't get enough love as a child.

archibaldcrane | 15 février 2013

So, when under say, 20 rated miles remaining, how long does it take for a full range Supercharge in an 85 and in a 60?

DanD | 15 février 2013

Lots of ways this could all have played out, but there is no doubt its raised the profile of the car.

Brian H., I guess I should cancel my roadtrip (in my 60kWH) from Trenton to Newport.

Do you think you somehow speak for Tesla?

And Brian you'll be sad to know that I'll be writing about my trip. That ought to really upset you.

frmercado | 15 février 2013

Here is the roadrip review from CNN of the same trip that Broder did:

frmercado | 15 février 2013

...of the same route...

Brian H | 15 février 2013

The design of the SC network is specific: ½ hr charges of 85kWh batteries giving 150 miles, enough to get to the next station. 60s take longer, and have to full charge. Which shortens their lifespan, and accelerates degradation. The shorter their max range, the higher % they must charge, which degrades them even faster.

It won't be many years before they can't make it to the next station, except by crawling along at slow speeds. Conclusion: anyone who bought the 60 as a l/d freeway car is asking for trouble. Or the opportunity to complain loudly.

Robert22 | 15 février 2013

There will be additional superchargers placed approximately halfway BETWEEN existing superchargers. For major corridors these will be installed very quickly. For those that choose not to overextend the battery, it will simply mean a few extra stops for milkshakes and a lower risk of deep venous thrombosis.

Brian H | 16 février 2013

Each placement requires a balancing array erection, there or somewhere on the grid, otherwise Solar City is paying the shot without compensating power sales. Furthermore, there are many unserviced highways untouched yet, which have far more call and "need" than filling in and doubling up already on already-serviced roads.

It may be easier mental shorthand to think of this as a Tesla expense, but that is specifically what it is determined to avoid. It is thus not free to just "stick in" a station wherever it wants like a juice vending machine.

Brian H | 16 février 2013

Edit: doubling up on already-serviced routes.