Is this a bug or did someone at Tesla intentionally pull that thread? Probably no forum member knows, but I thought it's only fair to make a note. Strange in any case.
Don't recall ever even seeing it. When did it go up?
Darn. I put a lot of work into my response too. :(
Some threads seem to mysteriously vanish from time to time. I started a thread with a question about routine maintenance which disappeared after 3 days. I've also seen comments in some threads erased, but I assume that's a result of someone flagging them as inappropriate.
Possible. There was some vitriol against the OP of the thread. But then, that would assume that there are mods paying attention to the forum. Would that be too much of a stretch? :D
A sales rep told me that these forums are read by employees every day. They just don't take part in the conversation, only putting in an entry when necessary. So all these comments are getting to someone. No guarantee on them changing things because of them, but I think it's well worth keeping up the critiques.
It has been obvious in the past that flagging posts as inappropriate does have an effect (sometimes takes 12 hours, but rarely more). And this was very welcome, IMO. However, this was the first time that I noticed that an entire thread got pulled. And I cannot see any reason other than that some comments were not considered advantageous for Tesla. There was no offending language, and the discussion was partly emotional but entirely on topic.
Tesla, would you mind publishing your forum policy? I have said before that IMO these forums have some added value over some other independent forums, but if you pull threads for no obvious reason that would certainly be a motivation to prefer an independent website.
I agree. RedUser.net is a forum for owners and enthusiasts for the RED camera. It's great because not only do owners and enthusiasts use it, but it's the primary form of direct communication from the top people in the company. The head of the company frequently answers questions and makes announcements on the forum. IMHO it helps form a closer community and makes asking questions that much more worthwhile.
I think other threads have disappeared also. There was for a brief time a thread on SECURITY and another on TIRES. Big brother is watching (or reading).
@Volker.Berlin Hey Guys, and don't believe that any of the Threads have been removed, just lost in the archives, go back to previous pages, of which there are many....Page 14 has a Thread on Tires. After attending the Factory Event, I am convinced that the people at Tesla are well intentions and have no reason to be deceitful. As part of the Tesla family, we must trust that the company has everyones best interest at heart!
Heh. That's all very well, as long as its judgment is not flawed and biased. >;) Willingness to take input and change when justified and needed is one of the first things to go when "taking care of others' best interests".
@Denis Vincent - no, the luxury poll thread did not get "lost" in the archives. It was a current thread that we were posting to and it just disappeared.
BTW, also notice that there's no search available on this lame forum site.
yeah, the best search workaround appears to be to use a standard search engine and include site:www.teslamotors.com or site:www.teslamotors.com/forum in the search terms. Not perfect, but you get the latest that the web crawlers have indexed.
Or start the thread again...
The "Luxury Factor Poll" thread was pulled, no doubt there. It can still be found in Google ...http://www.google.de/search?q=site%3Awww.teslamotors.com%2Fforum%2Fforum...
... but the link is dead:http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/luxury-factor-poll
(as of 22-oct-2011 23:00 CEST)
Not sure about the other threads that were reported MIA. Still not sure what conclusions to draw. I like Tesla, I support Tesla, I trust Tesla (to a certain extent), but they may be trying to design the public opinion, just a little bit (one of my favorite lines: "The public opinion is not always the published opinion...").
It'll be interesting to see how they respond to this thread, though... ;-)
It is obvious to my why the thread was pulled. First, jsanok relates his/her disappointment with the roadster's handling following a test ride (negative president) by stating that the car has a ".. cheap go-cart feel" (defamatory/unsupported). Jsonok proceeds with "Remember that a car in this price range is purchased for luxury and prestige by the general public" (patronizing/suppositious). The author says electric ".. will only be a second thought to the majority of buyers" (devaluing), then asks "Does the S have the required 'heft' and feel of a true luxury car.." (derogatory/insinuative). jsanok delivers the final blow with ".. is Tesla counting on/riding on a wave of electro-geeks for it's success?" (Invalidating/instigative) - as if to suggest that all people that don't buy the car for luxury must be buying it for a ridiculous ideology. I'M OFFENDED!
I'm glad the thread was extracted as its intent was to rile guests into a pointless banter. Go Tesla! I would guess jsanok to be an enemy of EVs and Tesla Motors. Perhaps he/she is a mole for the oil companies.
This has nothing to do with democracy. The Tesla hosted "open forum" is a place for legitimate, thoughtful discussion. There are many ways to voice your concerns and opinions without being precipitous or slanderizing the company and its products. The way I see it - if one cannot put their thoughts to paper in a tactful and meaningful way, they should not post their "questions" here. There are plenty of other places for that type of communication.
Zeed, thank you for your post. I did not see it that way, and I am still not offended. This may be related to the fact that I am not a native speaker and tactless phrases may not be so obvious to me.
I think jsanok made some valid points, which is immediately obvious when you imagine that the Model S would compare to the Panamera as the Roadster compares to the 911. That's not the Model S you'd want, and fortunately, the comparison does not hold. IMO that's a legitimate answer to a legitimate question. Also jsanok's remark that electric would be a second thought to most buyers (which you may or may not agree with) jives pretty well with Musks bold statement that the Model S "is not the best electric car but the best car of any kind."
I have to think about it a bit more but I will probably stick to my conclusion that Tesla should not have pulled this topic (it's their business of course, not mine, I'm just wondering if they might hurt themselves that way). In any case I wanted to say thank you for providing some insight that I did not have myself.
Volker. I admire your sensibility. Naturally, you've attempted to legitimately answer jsanok's "question". On the other hand, I witnessed rhetoric and spectated as the footsteps of guards drew closer in.
It is futile to conclude whether removing the thread was net positive or net negative for Tesla. There are too many variables to consider. I do think that most "ramblers" are quite harmless.. Time and again, these ramblers invite steady "adjustment" from our seasoned enthusiasts, which serves Tesla well for obvious reasons. But, a quick line can be drawn between tactless ramblers and enemies of state (the statehood of Tesla and the EV community). I actually suspect the latter in this case.
Regarding the presumption that the S' electric power train will be promoted as a "second thought", I must disagree. Let's ask, would Elon ever have ventured to create the best ICE car of any kind? (say electricity didn't exist). No. He set out to propagate a future world (not just a company) dominated by electric propulsion and the "second thought" was to shift the electric car paradigm - that they can be "not just as good, but better [than gasoline cars]." It is possible that the electric power train will become a second thought in the distant future, but for now people will primarily point and clamor "the awesome electric car!", not "the awesome luxury car!"
Zeed, thanks again. This is not the place to go into even more detail, but what you are saying makes sense to me. I'd be happy to continue the discussion by face mail, maybe some day.
Oh my!! What have I done?. As you all know by now, I have re-posted the topic, but as of today the thread is closed for comment. At least they re-opened this thread for comment.
Regarding my question; regardless of our speculative bantering, the true test comes when the car goes for sale to the public. I was only looking for some introspection from you guys to help me decide on making a reservation. I'll just have to look for myself and decide. Thank you for all the good posts.
@jsanok You may want to make a reservation soon if you want a Tesla in 2013.
Surely Tesla is taking a lot of heat, fearmongering, outright lies and offending propaganda in the media.
I can see why they react in a huffy way in their own forum. The crap flying around in other places surely is enough.
A better way to deal with that is to close the thread with a Moderator comment. If that's not enough, feel feel to plaster a Moderator advisory at the top of the post so it's read first.
Making stuff "vanish" just breeds unnecessary bad PR.