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Type 2 charging for Europe and Supercharger

Type 2 charging for Europe and Supercharger

All European Model S comes with Type 2 connection at the car side. With dual chargers 3 phase AC it gives 20 kW, so if charging from 3x32A 400VAC its no problem getting full charge in about 4-5 hours.

The question is regarding the supercharger since this is using DC up to 90 kW (or will 120 kW be available in Europe to?).

Type 2 connectors only admit charging with maximum 43 kW from 3 phase AC, not DC. How does this work? I haven't seen any other inlets on the car except for the Type 2 connector.

How did Tesla Solve this problem? Will Superchargers in Europe have Type 2 connectors? It just doesn't make sense to me. Could then all other cars with Type 2 connectors use the Superchargers? Anybody know anything about this yet?

tobi_ger | 29 juillet 2013

I don't think there is a problem as the MS already supports AC (like J1772) and DC (SCs) charging in the US.
I'm certain that TM did all the necessary plug/socket combination testing to have correct signals and protocols covered for e.g. Type 2 in Europe. For the owner of the car it's pure "cosmetics" with different designs, but there's a lot behind the scenes in the electronics.

ar | 29 juillet 2013

@Tobi_ger

I'm not worried that Tesla hasn't got everything right with the electronics. I'm confident they have.

I'm just wondering how you can charge 90 kW DC from a plug that is designed to handle max 43kW AC. The "CCS/Combo type 2" in Europe has 2 extra connectors for DC that the Model S doesn't have.

Anybody?

Jackie425 | 29 juillet 2013

Didn't Elon say they had strengthen the socket so it wasn't exactly a standard Type 2 ? Also doesn't the cable for the Superchargers come from the Supercharger and plug into the car ? In that case it would mean that the European superchargers would have a different cable from the ones in the USA and Canada. I guess we will find out once the Norwegian Superchargers are up and running. Anyway having seen what they have done for the 3 phase AC I am sure they have got it all worked out and we will very soon know all about the Superchargers too.

tobi_ger | 29 juillet 2013

@Jackie425
I think you nailed it perfectly on the head. :)
The "normal" Type 2 charging stations will only use the max. kW charge as designed. The cars' sockets and the SC cables make the difference to allow SC-level charging.

ar | 29 juillet 2013

If this is true it sounds really cool and it makes you wonder WHY the ACEA constructed the CCS if all that had to be done was to modify the standard Type 2...

shop | 29 juillet 2013

Because Elon is smarter than your average standards committee?

Howard2013 | 29 juillet 2013

The European cars have this great advantage.

3 Phase 32amp @ 380 volts this gives 80 miles of charge per hour.
It is in effect a 96 amp charge.

I have already arranged with the RADISSON Blu in Nice for my friend who will drive to Nice from Germany to have this level of charging. You always have to talk the Manager of a hotel and I played the Radisson off with the Hyatt and mentioned Aloft in Brussels and how good they were providing charge for his Roadster.
The manager of the Radisson in Nice is a Belgium guy so I evoked both our Brussels experience and threatened to book with the Hyatt if they did not provide good enough charging.

Howard2013 | 29 juillet 2013

BTW the Hyatt in Nice will have TESLA friendly charging from 2014.

Howard2013 | 29 juillet 2013

American TESLA owners need to push for single phase 70 amp @ 220 volts charging at malls, movie multiplexes, sports stadiums, hotels, high end restaurants. 60 miles of charge per hour.
This is perfect for any place you spend two hours or more.

Howard2013 | 29 juillet 2013

It is important to give me people deeper understanding. They do not realise the difference between a Leaf and a TESLA MODEL S.
When you explain that some crappy charge at 20amp maybe okay for a LEAF but they need to understand the difference between a 24kWh car and an 85kWh car. Same with a lot low amp public charging I tell officials that they are still installing obsolete infrastructure often wasting tax money and that it is not current let alone future proof.

ChristianG | 29 juillet 2013

Well the high amps charging spots are only necessary for traveling. I don't think that you need to fully charge when you go to a mall or to the cinema. Also in daytrip destinations it's probably enough when you top off your car in 6-8 hours.

Sure having superchargers everywhere would be great, but necessary? Probably not.

And don't forget to buy a type 2 cable in europe as it doesn't seem to be included with the car...

Brian H | 29 juillet 2013

Note that the SuperChargers are better than using 2 CHAdeMO at once. They are DC, bypass the internal charger hardware, and can charge at 300mi/hr (500km/hr) or better, at peak rate.

thomas.schlatter | 29 juillet 2013

@Brian H: To my knowledge, CHAdeMO is DC also.

liviu | 30 juillet 2013

The 20KW charger seems to be the problem. When plug in 43KW Type2 3-phase AC, the maximum charging rate will be 20KW, not 43KW.
Maybe this is the only drawback!
This is a correct information?

Jolanda | 30 juillet 2013

So with all the Zoe 43kW fastchargers comming on line now, that is a small problem. But, on this fast charger there is also a Chademo connector and the type 2 "Frankenplug".

So lets hope that Tesla brings us an adapter of some kind...

Ampfreak | 30 juillet 2013

@liviu: To charge with the 20KW charger there are 2 points to consider. If you charge from a public AC charge station, the charge station needs to provide the Menekes plug on the car side.
If you charge from a CEE 3x32A socket Tesla doesn't provide you with the larger 3x32A plug with the necessary electronic converter to charge with 20KW. Teslas standard plug and cable-attached converter fits into 3x16A sockets. For 3x32A sockets you will need to purchase a separate unit e.g. from crOhm. Or wait until Tesla provides a heavier unit.

http://crohm.ch/index.php/2012-10-09-18-15-57/privatkunden/92-tesla.html

http://crohm.ch/index.php/software-download/download-unserer-supports/fi...

tobi_ger | 30 juillet 2013
liviu | 30 juillet 2013

@Ampfreak: The specifications says something else on Charging:
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/models/specs
"40A or 3 phase 16A (Optional 22 kW ... three phase input to 32A)"
and mentions the plugs, search on web for pics

liviu | 30 juillet 2013

sorry: 1 phase 40A or 3 phase 16A ....

Brian H | 30 juillet 2013

thomas;
Yes, that was my point. Making the DC-DC comparison.

Jolinar | 30 juillet 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_425823&feature=iv&...

here Elon says what connector they use, it's Mennekes Type 2 compatible with improved pins so it can handle SuperCharging too.

ar | 31 juillet 2013

@Jolinar,

Thanks alot! I missed that one. I like how Elon said that they can't use the Mennekes connector because it would melt :).

Eluc | 9 août 2013

@Jolinar
It's too bad because that means they will build SuperChargers station with Type 2 plug that are NOT compatible with the standard type 2 and so it'll be impossible to charge all other brands of electric cars (that should be equiped with type 2 connector or Combo Type 2 connector). I think if you build a network of charger station you should be open to the standards and not close to only one brand (even if it's your own brand). Then it will be no problem to accept all EV and charge customers of other brand for this service (i.e. with a subscription).

By the way, to charge a Tesla on SuperChargers do you need to authentifiate with a dongle or something ? or is the car giving the authentification to the charger ? or you just need a vehicule that accept the plug and charging mode ?

JeanNijssen | 9 août 2013

IMHO

With the normal type 2 connection you can charge at 11kW public and private (3x16A AC)
With a dual charger you can charge at 22 kW public and private (3x32A AC)
When you have supercharger option you can supercharge (DC), because TM have made their car-side Mennekes connection suitable for high-power DC loading (so NOT with normal Mennekes cable or plug)
They also deliver a connector for lower speed AC loading (optional) Max. 3.7 kW (16A)
They will not support CHAdeMO fttb
Supercharging is exclusively reserved for Tesla, because it is for "free" (Tesla owners pay €2000 for this option for the lifetime of their cars)
Enough options so far, CHAdeMO would be nice though (what I've heard there is a safety issue regarding loading Tesla with CHAdeMO: better safe than sorry)

Brian H | 9 août 2013

The connector allows communication between car and SC, so it knows what is being linked up. Other companies could share SCs, but Elon says they'd have to pay their fair share up front.

jeffhre | 1 octobre 2013

Howard2013 | JULY 29, 2013
"American TESLA owners need to push for single phase 70 amp @ 220 volts charging at malls, movie multiplexes, sports stadiums, hotels, high end restaurants. 60 miles of charge per hour.
This is perfect for any place you spend two hours or more."

Somehow, I just have the feeling, though I could be wrong...

That I won't be needing over 385 miles of range to see a movie!

jeffhre | 1 octobre 2013

"With the normal type 2 connection you can charge at 11kW public and private (3x16A AC)
With a dual charger you can charge at 22 kW public and private (3x32A AC"

Only if the installer had the foresight to phase the charge points correctly for dual charging.

martinwinlow | 11 mars 2015

"Type 2 connectors only admit charging with maximum 43 kW from 3 phase AC, not DC. How does this work?"

The EU MS cleverly reconfigures the standard 3 phase Type 2 pins (each capable of 63A - they are 0.25" - 6mm - thick) to use N and phase 1 (P1) pins for one pole of the DC charging connection and the P2 and P3 pins for the other. The car figures out what is connected and connects the charger/battery up accordingly. MW

Sh3xCod | 7 avril 2015

Can 3rd party type 2 cable pull 11kwh from the grid? I have a European s85D with single charger onboard and lately I've been charging with type 2 cable from 7.4 kW station but I could only get 16km/h (3.7-4 kWh) 16amp. Because the car could not be adjusted for higher than 16 Amp.
Is it possible to get all 7.4kwh? How can I adjust amperage higher then 16?