Why are there no superchargers planned for toronto area?

Why are there no superchargers planned for toronto area?

Considering its the 4th largest metro area in North America, and we have two tesla dealersips come next week, why isnt Southern Ontario getting more planned Superchargers? Even by 2015 only looks like one supercharger 2 hours to the west and another almost 2 hours to the east of GTA, and nothing in toronto or north thereof, like in cottage country or the collingwood ski area?

None in Buffalo area either.

Was thinking of doing a roadtrip to cleveland or New york pretty soon to break in my car, but looks like that will have to be put on hold for a long time!

Or am i missing something?

negarholger | 28 novembre 2013

Make a suggestion to Tesla... there is somewhere a suggestion form.

Bernard Hong | 28 novembre 2013


J.T. | 28 novembre 2013

But if you get one in Toronto before there's one near Boston we're going to have to knock it down. :-)

LazMan | 28 novembre 2013

Generally the supercharges are put between major cities. They are for long distance travel.

ir | 28 novembre 2013

You already have the Sun Country Highway:

Hope you got the dual charger option for the high-amp stations!

EJH | 28 novembre 2013

@ Kaboom
I kind of see the Supercharger forecast a little differently than you.
As per the Tesla map, I see chargers by the end of 2015 being in London, Kingston, Windsor, Cornwall, and at an Ottawa/Montreal mid-point.
In Quebec, it looks like one in Trois-Rivieres.
Just to the south, I see chargers in Buffalo, Syracuse, Ithaca,
Pittsburg, and Harrisburg.

On the Canadian side, I know that the first ones that we are likely to see are going to be the Kingston and London sites.

Yes you have a point that these locations do not as of yet provide seamless coverage of our area, but these are the early days of a young company, and I for one look at each new facility as a gift.

In May, my car was under the 400th S delivered to Canada(also the first Red in Ontario!), and I am amazed that the company is willing to spend so much money on infrastructure in our area for such a small number of cars.

Tesla is much more than a car company, and they are doing a lot more than building cars.
Here is a n interesting video from JB Straubel that may shed some light on Tesla's amazing game-plan:

Thanks for listening.

Kaboom | 28 novembre 2013

congrats on being number 400 in these regions. But i think that the number of cars sold in toornto has grown dramatically since then. It sounds like they are pumping out 2 cars a day lately at the dealership. And once a second dealership opens do think that we are going to see many more very soon on the road.

I guess assuming that people in toronto charge at home, it would make sense to setup another charger 2 hours in each direction.

But they missed north. many MS owners here surely have cottages and chalets north. Would be good to have road trip possibilities north without having to stay the night to charge up on a home plugin.

EJH | 28 novembre 2013

Hi Kaboom,

I'm one of the cottagers that you refer to, and yes, it would be nice to have a Supercharger in Orillia or Barrie, for sure.

I also understand the tremendous costs associated with the establishment of the facilities, and as a shareholder, I am very happy to see the company take a slow and steady approach to their expansions.

In my opinion, we, as owners can really forward our interests by maintaining a focus on the brilliance of the electric car, and by concentrating our energies on enlightening and encouraging all around us to more understand the importance of EV transportation,
including it's shortcomings.


tes-s | 28 novembre 2013

I'm surprised by that too. They are putting one it at JFK airport now, and that is not needed for "distance travel".

I think it is a good idea to make the suggestion to Tesla.

But with the two superchargers planned for the fall, can't you travel 200 miles to the east to one supercharger, or 200 miles to the west to the other? Usually if you are in a location, a supercharger is not needed close to where you are for distance travel.

RandomizeMe | 29 novembre 2013

Make the suggestion to Tesla. Like in an Email or something. don't know if it'll help but hey, worth a shot.

Brian H | 29 novembre 2013

SCs are cheap, dirt cheap. The entire 2015 network will have cost in the region of 40-50 Million. You could spend that on Superbowl ads in a few minutes.

jkn | 29 novembre 2013

Airports are for long distance travel!

Somebody drives 200 miles to airport. He needs to charge, before parking his car for a long trip.

tes-s | 29 novembre 2013

@jkn - Not many people drive 200 miles to JFK. They would be much closer to Philadelphia, Newark, Hartford, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, or Boston. And with a chargers at Edison, Darien, and Greenwich you could get to JFK and back from anywhere.

Superchargers at airports are great, but hard to really say one at JFK enables distance travel.

Jewsh | 29 novembre 2013

I was #352 in all of Canada.


I'd love to see a SC at Yorkdale. I think it's ideal since the mall already contains a Tesla store and is right off of the 401, making it highly useful for long-distance travel.

Kaboom | 29 novembre 2013

For instance, i would like to take my 85 for a trip from toronto to cleveland to visit a friend next week. What are my options?

Still new to this, and i have yet to receive my MS, so pardon me if this seems like a rookie question.

tes-s | 29 novembre 2013

This may help:

There is a supercharger planned to be opened in the next month located to the west of Toronto. Depending on your actual starting and ending point, and where the superchargers is, you could do it going via Detroit.

The other option is to save the 100 miles and go through Buffalo, and use a non-supercharger. It is about a 300 mile trip, so if you can find a 70 or 80amp charger you would need to stop for a couple of hours to get a charge.

Kaboom | 29 novembre 2013

thanks for that, but you see, that is exactly my point.

What is the point of having this great car if i can't drive a simple road trip from toronto to cleveland…..without having to resort to taking a 100 mile detour, or stopping an extra 2 hours along way to fill up at a non-supercharger. I don't have twin chargers so the non-superchargers take more time.

In time the network will be built out i know, but even looking ahead next two years i am surprised how 'neglected' this corner is.

I could gamble on the road trip there and see if i can make it without charging up along way other than for during a meal break at a non-supercharger for 45 minutes……maybe i can pull it off as long as weather isn't too cold. Once in cleveland i could charge up overnight for the return leg.

Jewsh | 29 novembre 2013

Yikes - no twin chargers?

If you can mod your order I'd make that change.

tes-s | 29 novembre 2013

You could stop at Niagara Falls - there is a CS90 charger there. Your MS would need to be dual charger equiped (a good idea in Canada since there are higher-amperage chargers there).

Get a full range charge and then is it 210 miles to Cleveland. Should be able to make it there.

tes-s | 29 novembre 2013

@Jewsh - YES!!

If you are in Canada I'd say the twin chargers is a must. I'd suggest modifying your order if you can, or have the service center install it when they prep it for delivery.

You are right that until the superchargers are built, there are some compromises with taking a trip with the MS. Even with superchargers, it is still not quite the same as with an ICE - but I have done some supercharger trips and actually like taking the 45-minute break - makes it a trip instead of a dash to the destination.

RAM_Eh | 29 novembre 2013

I suggest they put chargers at the service centres. One in the west end and one on Lawrence just off the DVP. With that Toronto is covered.

FYI there are changers at Yorkdale...just not he super chargers. On P1 of the parking level there are at least 3 public ones.

tes-s | 29 novembre 2013

Service centers, and sales locations, do have chargers - usually NEMA 14-50 and often HPWC. They are usually accommodating to traveling Teslas.

They may be moving away from the separate mall sales locations and nearby service centers, to more of a dealership model with a stand-alone building that is both a sales and service center.

If they do that, it would make sense to have superchargers at the location. I hope they do it!

Jewsh | 29 novembre 2013


I have used the 80A chargers at the Yorkdale location. (Actually they seemed to be clipped at 60A, but I still thank the store for letting me use them many times before.)

I still think an external SC would be great for the mall and for 'S owners/Tesla.

RAM_Eh | 29 novembre 2013


What colour is your MS. I think I have seen it before. I noticed a MS in the lineup downstairs a few times that was a personal vehicle.

clindon | 29 novembre 2013

The development of the SC network in Canada is one of my big concerns when evaluating whether or not to purchase a Tesla MS. As I interpret the SC map the main priority for Eastern Canada is the Quebec City to Windsor corridor which will eventually (nominally by end of 2015) include 5 SCs. Based on the “map dots” they appear to be planned for Trois Riviere PQ, Brockville On, Cobourg On, London On and Chatham-Kent On areas, probably associated with the major Hwy 401 service/rest stops in those areas. This breaks the Quebec City to Windsor corridor into 5 segments of roughly 180 miles each with a little bit on each end. This makes eminent sense given the population and market potential of this area. Add in the MS range and SC charging rate this distribution seems to be ideal for what will probably be the vast majority of the Ontario/Quebec MS market and travel routes.

Given that I live in Ottawa ON and travel west to Sudbury ON to see family quite frequently I would like to know of any potential plans (or lobbying efforts) for SC locations to be installed along the Hwy 17 Trans-Canada corridor of Ottawa – North Bay – Sudbury – Sault Ste Marie. An SC location in or near North Bay would seem to be a “no brainer” in that it would break the Ottawa to Sudbury route at the approx 220 mile point. (Personally I would also like to see an SC in Mattawa – perhaps as little as two bays if a 4 bay SC could not be adequately justified. Mattawa is approximately 180 miles west of Ottawa and this section of Hwy 17 has some “ferocious hills” which would tax the MS range, especially in winter or during other adverse weather/traffic conditions.) The other aspect of North Bay which makes it a “no brainer” for an SC is it’s hub location approximately 220 miles north of Toronto on a highly frequented business route to Timmins/Kapuskasing and equally frequented vacation route for the extensive “cottage population” in the area between North Bay and Timmins. Several food service locations and North Bay’s main shopping mall are either on Hwy 17 or on roads which intersect Hwy 17 and all of these potential locations can be readily seen from the highway. Each of which could readily host a 4 bay SC. A SC just west of Sudbury (say Walden or perhaps even as far west as Espanola) would break the North Bay to Sault Ste Marie section at the 120 -150 mile mark and ensure successful travel to Sault Ste Marie ON where a final SC for this portion of the Trans-Canada would enable further travel either north as far as Wawa On on the trans Canada or South into MI state via Sault Ste Marie MI which represents a substantial portion of traffic flow in this area..
Could something along this line be accomplished by 2016/17? Who would one contact at Tesla to discuss such future SC deployments? Obviously we all have vested interests in proposing potential SC locations but I would think that covering the more frequently traveled corridors of the Trans-Canada would be both good business and public relations/advertising for Tesla and SolarCity.

SC deployment around the lake-head and on towards Winnipeg would have to be a much longer term goal but one which would hopefully be ultimately realized in the 10 year time frame as EV’s become more readily accepted and with Tesla hopefully maintaining their market leading position. By that point I would also hope that Tesla and other EV manufacturers would cooperate on charging station locations where SC bays would be co-located with other charging systems to reduce costs and foster a more general acceptance of EVs.

My thoughts (and hopes) anyway.

Thanks and Cheers

Jewsh | 29 novembre 2013


Our car is white. We love it!

bonaire | 29 novembre 2013

I saw one dot near Buffalo. However, you don't go from GTA to Buffalo to recharge unless you are down there shopping.

The point of SC is for distance travel. But many in the California area use it for their commuting fuel since electricity there is high-priced. Isn't Hydro in GTA roughly .14-.15 per kWh? That can be half or less than in California for someone not on a TOU rate (E9 I think it is called).

bonaire | 29 novembre 2013

BTW, there is J-1772 support and the SunCharger (?) network on the 401/403 seems to cover many east/west travellers. Just not Tesla-provided.

Jewsh | 29 novembre 2013


Given the supposed 150k/station cost of the SCs, it should be doable to install further charging stops in the future. I agree 100% that this is a key factor to Tesla adoption.

negarholger | 29 novembre 2013

@bonaire - E9 is discontinued, it is now called EV-A and EV-B (dual meter). I pay 9.6 cents per kWh at night.

EJH | 29 novembre 2013

Brian H

I am less willing than you are to call the Supercharger facilities cheap.

They are now putting battery packs on site to stabilize power loads, and among the many other costs are the switch-gear, hardware, utility hook-ups, permits, leases, construction costs, supervisory fees, engineering, municipal fees, insurances, maintenance, energy costs, etc.
These are big investments.
They are also truly fantastic investments, but I am not sure that I would refer to them as "cheap", or "dirt cheap".

Disclosure: Brian, I am fully supportive of your efforts to raise the language skills of all of us who could use some "brushing up", and fully approve of your technique, and appreciate your input.

bonaire | 29 novembre 2013

Which superchargers have batteries? Do you have a list?

Tom P. | 29 novembre 2013

Being in Thunder Bay, ON... I am really screwed regarding SC availability. If and when I get a MS, I will be restricted to local driving only for probably several years. It is 700 km. (435 mi.) to Winnipeg and the same distance to S.S. Marie. Travelling south... Minneapolis, MN is about 600 km.

negarholger | 29 novembre 2013

@Tom - you are not "screwed". Yes, you'll miss long distance travel, but even locally your radius of operation is about 100 miles compared to 30 miles or so in a Leaf, etc. My major point for the MS was can I pick up my wife at the airport (120 mile RT) or go to the in-laws (180 miles RT) on a single charge... 99% of my needs are fulfilled.
Your needs maybe different, but then an electrical car is not for you.

Rheumboy | 29 novembre 2013

You will get a SC when you win the SC (Stanley Cup)

Brian H | 29 novembre 2013

That's cruel!

Kaboom | 30 novembre 2013


in that case Winnepeg and Ottawa will have a SC before us in toronto get one!

Pungoteague_Dave | 30 novembre 2013

Having now visited superchargers 8 times, and as the owner of shopping centers and convenience store real estate throughout the U.S., I can say pretty definitively that the cost per supercharger location is well over a half million dollars, and perhaps as much as a million, far more than the $150 to $300k initially projected. As I write this, we are plugged into the new supercharger at Rocky Mt, NC.

All of the locations we have visited on this trip have similar characteristics. They have eight charging stations, with seven back-in, and one pull-in charger. All charging stations are labelled in pairs, so 1A charges at full speed, unless 1B hooks up, when power is apparently reduced by half. We haven't encountered any other cars charging, so haven't seen that downshift so far.

None have had any provision for solar panels. Although others have speculated that solar will come later, put me in the doubter camp. The amount of start-up and mobilization to do custom construction activities like this is huge. If TM or Solar City really intends to do this, costs would be much less if done at inception rather than retrofit. These sites look totally like a TM effort, no Solar City involvement. That's how they are badged, and how the sign, big battery boxes and fences are labelled.

We have seen 140 kWh charging speeds, with miles per hour over 340, implying14 chargers running simultaneously. Assuming that is cut in half when the paired units are in use, that's 56 chargers per location, plus batteries, heavy duty power supply lines, transformers, curb work, landscaping, paving, and the actual stations, engineering, design, legal negotiation, and permitting/inspection. This assumes the land is essentially free, with the property owner granting access it as an amenity to attract business to insure shops and restaurants. However,, there are still legal costs for the lease and easement arrangements. Beyond that, the forward out–of-pocket electricity costs and maintenance will be substantial. This ownership benefit isn't as cheap as some may think, and it certainly isn't coming free as some fanboys here have said, perhaps misled by the original (and now apparently nonfunctional) Solar City publicity.

These things are amazing. Thanks TM.

tes-s | 30 novembre 2013

What does the battery enclosure look like? All I have ever seen is the charger.

Does anyone know the algorithm for sharing current across the A/B connectors for a supercharger? Does A get priority? First-connected gets priority? Balanced - each get half; if one takes less given to the other?

negarholger | 30 novembre 2013

PD - I hear you. Can't say much about the cost you have a better feel for that. Today I was at Tejon which actually has all three elements : chargers + solar + battery. At Hawthorne the dashboard showed 1700 cars served 30 kWh average each = 51 MWh in seven days times I guess 20 cents times 52 weeks is about half a million in electricity cost.
Price of SC is really not the issue, because it is paid for by the MS... long term SC electricity needs to become a revenue center instead of a cost center. How will they do it? Lets see...
I don't think the SolarCity connection is that active anymore - I think TM will build and operate SC on their own.

Brian H | 1 décembre 2013

The intention all along, referred to by Elon recently, is to gradually catch up to the SC installs with Solar canopies. Patience, children.

Pungoteague_Dave | 1 décembre 2013

Brian, if you are correct, then I don't want these guys managing my money. It is a lot cheaper to pour concrete once rather than twice. The concrete is nearly free, it is the labor, firms, and transport that cost money. In fact, it will cost them nearly double to do this in two stages. I don't believe it. So far, it is a pure TM effort on the east coast, no solar provision at all. Adding solar later will require a whole new approval and entitlement process, restarted construction effort, travel costs, etc. if it was real, it would be real now.

Pungoteague_Dave | 1 décembre 2013

Just like the never-gonna-happen battery swap stations.

Pungoteague_Dave | 1 décembre 2013

Firms = forms

SamO | 1 décembre 2013

Recall that PD also predicted battery swap was impossible.

Glad PD has recognized that Elon Musk is a liar yet again. Sarcasm off.

NKYTA | 1 décembre 2013

@PD, if they never get solar canopies, how are we going to survive the Zombie Apocalypse? Didn't Elon "promise" us that too?

Tongue in cheek, if that isn't obvious.

negarholger | 1 décembre 2013

@Pungoteague_Dave - superchargers are in phase zero, at this point roll out speed is priority number one, not most cost effective build. 200 SC by 2015 is the initial skeleton network to give you options to Blink etc public trickle chargers. Assume 1M Tesla cars on the road by 2020 - how many SC do you need ? - say 2000 and that means 90% of the superchargers still have to be build from 2016-2020 and that is were it becomes important to be cost effective and electricity cost positive.

EJH | 1 décembre 2013

To stay within the spirit of solar-powered Superchargers, Tesla could have very large arrays constructed where they are the most profitable by Solar City to supply power to the local grids. Revenue from this power generation would be sent to Tesla, which would then use it to pay it's Supercharger electric bills.

Philosophically correct, and vastly more cost effective.

Elon has promised free charging to Tesla owners, but he never promised that the network would always to be exclusively for Tesla cars.
I think that it is quite possible in the future that any company choosing a Tesla drivetrain for their EVs may also be able to have their cars access the network, but for a fee.
The global Supercharger network just might become as lucrative as the car manufacturing. ( unmanned, and operating 24/7 all around the world)

church70 | 1 décembre 2013

2014 or 2015 MS cars may not get free supercharging

Ralph_G | 1 décembre 2013

I also live in the GTA. It appears that SCers will be set up in Belleville and Kingston so travelling west to London I doubt very much that the MS could make this trip without a charge in Toronto, so where do drivers go? Two or three weeks ago I wrote to Tesla suggesting the need for a charger in the GTA and in the Muskoka and Wasaga/Collingwood area, Generally I don't need it because I can make it to Bracebridge from home. But there is a high percentage of people that take day trips to cottage country year round (pleasure and business)that need to be able to get home the same day. The expectation will be as more people buy the up coming new models that they would want to be able to charge anywhere in a short period of time and complete these day trips. I have a Suncountry 90 at my home, great charger but I don't feel like sitting around for three or four hours to be able to get home again.

I've been trying to figure out how Tesla plans to cover the cost of these SC builds, the power useage and maintenance. I for one have no issue paying $10-12-15-$20 for a quick charge to cover my long distance driving, I want to be able to take my car to Florida a couple of times a year, if it costs me $80 to get there so be it. What's going to happen when there are 100-250-500 thousand Ss, Xs and Es? I want this company and world wide adoption to succeed, not fail because people expect to charge for free or because they feel the car won't service every need. Somebody paying $35-40k for a car isn't going to want to rent an ICE for day trips.

As far as charging other brands, unless those manufacturers adopt Tesla technology I don't see how those cars will never be able to charge at a SC. Which brings us back to how will Tesla maintain these expenses as the volumes of cars grow?

Love my car, almost 20,000km since the end of July.